Decompression Eccentric Lobe and installing Right Crankcase Cover;

OK, so the clutch on last ride was "really" notchy, so I know I have to get in the right crankcase to service the clutch hub. I service the clutch hub, (major fun btw) everything goes like clockwork putting eveything back together, then I get stuck on the decompression eccentric lobe located on the right crankcase side. I can't put enough pressure on the lobe and install right crankcase cover without it giving way, seems like I need 3 hands, which btw, I don't have.

The crankcase cover will not let me install part # 28282-KJ2-000 to hold into place and install it gets in the way of the frame. I checked the manual, no reference on how to get around this problem. Checked internet, bupkiss. Anyone have any idea, short of removing the motor, or the swingarm to get around this problem.

Any help, or advise, much appreciated !!!

Michael

Welcome to the big problem with the 86+ XR200s! Somebody somewhere must have an easy way to install the right side cover, hope they post it.

As you found out the problem is frame clearance for the arm on 86+ XR200s. What I do is remove the arm from the shaft and use a pair of slip joint priers to rotate the shaft enough that the cover will slide over the cam. The cover must easily seats in the closed position. DO not use cover bolts to pull the cover on, it must close up with hand pressure!

Next is the problems of re installing the lever on the shaft and connecting the lower cable housing anchor, I disconnect the upper cable housing anchor on the head to provide more slack in the cable. If you use an aluminum XR250 swing arm you have less clearance for the lever, I had to bend the lever for XR250 SA clearance.

Hi Chuck,

OK, so I am not nuts. It seems that Honda did not think this through when the motor is in the frame.

The Honda Service manual makes "zero" reference to this that I can find, perhaps someone with a clymer, or haynes manual can chime in.

I spent about 90 minutes trying about 8 different variations and contortions, still could not figure it out. One of those times to just walk away and work the problem and of course consult the TT XR200 Group.

Thanks Chuck for the clarification that it is indeed a problem.

Michael

Edited by KTM520EXC

It took me 2 hours and 5 beers to get the clutch cover back on.

Ok, had better luck finding a couple of references, so in case someone else encounters this problem;

Lobe alignment;

http://www.thumperta...pression-lever/

How to hold the right crankcase Follower Cam, reference parts;

28271-424-000 (Follower Cam)

28274-424-000 (Follower Spring)

94510-10000 (Circlip Outer)

http://www.thumperta...on-frustration/

Per Duster on old thread.

While installing the right crankcase cover, be sure to do two things:

1. hold the clutch lifter arm forward, perpendicular to the gasket edge so that the inside clutch arm will fit over the clutch lifter rod. The case won’t go on otherwise.

2. install the bolt (without the arm) in the decomp cam follower shaft, then while holding the clutch lifter arm forward as described above, rotate the decomp shaft bolt counter-clockwise so the follower lever inside the case will fit over the cam on the kick start shaft. Slide the case onto the engine.

I tried Chuck's way w/o any luck yesterday, the pliers just kept slipping on me and I tried the bolt thing as well, but did not tighten it, which is what I should have done in the first place. The alignment tab is a BIGGY, so that should really help.

I am also taking Chuck's advise as far as press fitting via hand, typically I will use a rubber hammer and pound very lightly to get a case to seat, but I suspect that Chuck has done more than his fair share of these and will press fit snuggly with hands and try not to ham fist it.

Way to go Honda, that it is much harder than it should be.

images.jpg

Edited by KTM520EXC

Yes it is difficult to grip the end of the shaft with pliers, I use a small pair of slip joint pliers. Next time I'll use the bolt. :thumbsup:

I added links to the 2010 thread and this thread as post #256 to the sticky Modification Guide.

Edited by chuck4788

Ya, just as a side note, the Honda Service Manual is pretty good about showing you how to remove everything, just not how to put it back !!!

I went back and forth through the manual several times, and there is "no" reference for reinstallation.

Obviously they missed that caveat especially on the reinstalling the right crankcase cover !!!

I am hoping either Clymers, or Haynes addresses this for those they don't have access to the internet.

I felt a little better when I found out that were several other XR200 owners stumped on the same problem.

Michael

The Clymer isn't any better, actually IMO better for chassis but worst for the engine.

This right cover issue has been here since 1986, so 16 years of production and Honda didn't edit the manual.

Fortunately for us the TT community has been here to help, and we are able to keep it going by giving back to the community.

Edited by chuck4788

Ok, so I tried the method posted by Duster, which worked fine, (still could use 3 hands btw). Got the cover on, clutch arm at right angle, push fit cover on via Chuck's advise, everything looks a go. put (4) case bolts in, test decompression system by kicking over motor several times and bolt "does not" move, so that tells me decompression system is not working and I am missing a step. Try it several more times, bupkiss, no ballons no confetti.

I walk away and start working the problem, I wake up this morning have a couple cups of coffee and think I have it figured out. This is an engineered timed part, so it's designed only to work in a certain rotation of the cycle.

I suspect that the eccentric lobe is supposed to be headed west like Duster's post stated when installed, however with the dimple dot on the eccentric lobe, it must line up with the kick start shaft in some way or another. However I can not find any alignment dot on the shaft to align to. I have moved the kick start shaft by testing several times on my first go around, so I have moved it out of it's orignal position.

My bike is old, 25 years to be exact, so I don't know if a little corrosion has hidden this alignment dot.

Any guidance on where alignment tab on the kick starter shaft is appreciated !!!

Michael

Ok, did a little research on Ebay to see if I could find a kick starter shaft with a dimple mark.

Found one, so I at least know where to look. It's on the shaft towards the splines.

That has to be step #1, make sure that aligns FIRST, then rotate kick starter shaft with eccentric lobe to the west positon.

Will confirm after fulfilling some family commitments today.

Michael

XR200 kick starter shaft.jpg

OK, eureka got it, balloons and confetti !!!Unfortunately the procedure is incorrect which I tried on several occasions, so let me give my take on the correct procedure.1) Remove spark plug so it's easier to test with your hand. 2) Make sure the eccentric cam dot lines up with kickstarter dot.3) Install bolt92101-06012 BOLT, HEX. (6X12) into 2821-427-000 Shaft follower and "tighten".4) Install right side case cover just so get past the kick starter shaft, so you have some stability. You should see the shaft, just as it passes the kickstarter shaft oil seal, not to much, again, you need the stability.5) Turn bolt to the left, aka counter clockwise, use a pair of pliers, small vise grips, etc.., this is important so this stays in place. (If the bolt slips out of your vise grips, etc.., then make sure there is still resistance, or tension on that bolt, if there is not, more than likely your spring has popped off, start over and reinstall spring.Make sure you are holding the clutch arm so it is at 90 degrees, or facing toward the motor. Slip everything on, nice and easy and make sure the case will seat with hand pressure, don't go overboard. Release vise grips, pliers, etc.., in should be riding on the eccentric cam correctly at this point. On to testing.6) Put in at least 4 bolts in an "X" pattern, install kick starter and test to see the bolt moves, if the bolt does not move, put pressure on the bolt facing towards the motor and retest. If it does move, you are good, reinstall everything. If it does not work, you are back to square one.What took me about 15 different variations and about 3 hours to get this to FINALLY work, I can now do this in 1 minute. Talking about a learning curve, geeessss.The problem I had is that I aligned the eccentric cam to the casing shown in this photo, which for me was INCORRECT. It would ONLY work once I aligned the kick starter shaft dot with the eccentric shaft dot and viola, I was in business.  

Inside of right side motor cases.jpg

Edited by KTM520EXC

OK, eureka got it, balloons and confetti !!!Unfortunately the procedure is incorrect which I tried on several occasions, so let me give my take on the correct procedure.

1) Remove spark plug so it's easier to test with your hand.

2) Make sure the eccentric cam dot lines up with kickstarter dot.

3) Install bolt 92101-06012 BOLT, HEX. (6X12) into 2821-427-000 Shaft follower, and "tighten".

4) Install right side case cover just so get past the kick starter shaft, so you have some stability. You should see the shaft, just as it passes the kickstarter shaft oil seal, not to much, again, you need the stability.

5) Turn bolt to the left, aka counter clockwise, use a pair of pliers, small vise grips, etc.., this is important so this stays in place. (If the bolt slips out of your vise grips, etc.., then make sure there is still resistance, or tension on that bolt, if there is not, more than likely your spring has popped off, start over and reinstall spring.Make sure you are holding the clutch arm so it is at 90 degrees, or facing toward the motor.

Slip everything on, nice and easy and make sure the case will seat with hand pressure, don't go overboard. Release vise grips, pliers, etc.., in should be riding on the eccentric cam correctly at this point. On to testing.

6) Put in at least 4 bolts in an "X" pattern, install kick starter and test to see the bolt moves, if the bolt does not move, put pressure on the bolt facing towards the motor and retest. If it does move, you are good, reinstall everything.

If it does not work, you are back to square one.What took me about 15 different variations and about 3 hours to get this to FINALLY work, I can now do this in 1 minute. Talking about a learning curve, geeessss. The problem I had is that I aligned the eccentric cam to the casing shown in this photo, which for me was INCORRECT. It would ONLY work once I aligned the kick starter shaft dot with the eccentric shaft dot and viola, I was in business.  

Good write up!

Edited by chuck4788

My '93 XR200r came to me without the decompress cable or hardware. Works fine. Why can't I just remove the "follower" and simplify case reassembly?

Best to find the missing parts and get the decompression system working properly................or stock up on K/S gears and ratchets! ;)

 

Old School Al

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