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2012/13 450 SXF SAG

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What race sag and fork drop have you found to work best for balanced turning both standing up and sitting down.

I have 20/100 with forks at the top of the clamps, but am still experiencing oversteer.

Someone mentioned that the new frame might like 25/105 better.

I've tried sliding the forks up in the clamps, and it just gets worse.

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the 2012 and 2013 are 2 different animals . That said I always run 109-112 rear sag. If I have too much oversteer and moving the tubes doesn't help, I simply reduce fork preload

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the 2012 and 2013 are 2 different animals . That said I always run 109-112 rear sag. If I have too much oversteer and moving the tubes doesn't help, I simply reduce fork preload

2012 and 2013 are identical frames and suspension.

SXF forks do not have pre-load.

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2012 and 2013 are identical frames and suspension.

SXF forks do not have pre-load.

Actually, there were two different bikes made in 2012.

The actual 2012 450SXF is identical to the 2011 bike, with the double cam motor. About mid year, KTM released the "Dungy" bike, which is a homologation special and a whole new bike.

For 2013, KTM discontinued the double over head cam 450SXF and replaced it with the homologation special for obvious reasons. However, even the 2013 450SXF is highly modified over the 2012 homologation special. The new 2013 frame is entirely different, shares nothing in common with the 2013 frame. The down-tube is more rigidity in one direction and more flex in another direction, thanks to a design innovation which will eventually trickle down into the other bikes.

The WP forks have preload as well. If you buy the WP cap tool and have somewhere to carefully store the oil, its very easy to pop the forks apart and add/subtract preload. Every fork comes with 2 - 4 preload spacers, depending on the model. Those spacers are your "preload" and should be adjusted accordingly.

In terms of your sag, you should have between 60 - 70mm of rider sag in the forks and 105 - 110 rider sag in the shock. Your front and rear static sag should be around 30mm.

I run my forks at 5mm down from the top of the clamps.

Understeer can come from the tires as well. If you're still using the stock MX51s, I'd place bets thats where your problem lies. They're good tires for fast guys who don't use the front. heh ;)

Edited by tye1138

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Oh, ok. I guess I don't consider 'spacer's as a pre-load adjustment: I assume adjustment means there is an adjuster.

Nope, 51's came off first ride. Dangerous.

I have MX Extra X, which still don't like hard pack, but are better

I will go to M/x 71's next.

I've never checked the front sag from a standing position.

Sitting it is about 25 (.52)

Back is 25/105 (6.3)

The forks are still waaaaay to divey for me, and I'm out of rebound adjustment, and out only 8 on compression

If I go in on the compression, it deflects and makes it impossible to ride rough terrain.

I hate this suspension.

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How much do you weigh?

And is it the Dungy bike with the single cam motor or the 2012 with the double cam motor?

Edited by tye1138

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How much do you weigh?

And is it the Dungy bike with the single cam motor or the 2012 with the double cam motor?

It's a double cam. 2012, not 2012.5.

265 with all gear, back pack and 100oz of water.

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And you ride off-road right?

Yeeees. Off-of-the-road.

On the dirty parts.

Hacky, rocky, rutted, talcum powder dirt on top of cement dirt.

Basically, it's like a chuck-holed freeway, with fixed rocks thrown in.

Like this:

Edited by Krannie

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ROFL!!!!

Yea, so blowing through the stroke is just an issue with compression damping. Its really easy to fix, you can call Mat @ Pinnacle Suspension and talk with him. The tools to work on the forks are cheap and easy to source through racetech. Mat can send you a kit and all you need to do is install it. That will fix A LOT of your problems in my view. You might also be running to low of an oil height.

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ROFL!!!!

Yea, so blowing through the stroke is just an issue with compression damping. Its really easy to fix, you can call Mat @ Pinnacle Suspension and talk with him. The tools to work on the forks are cheap and easy to source through racetech. Mat can send you a kit and all you need to do is install it. That will fix A LOT of your problems in my view. You might also be running to low of an oil height.

I don't think my oil height is too low, because it's IMPOSSIBLE to bottom.

Full speed into a curb, and it will not bottom.

Low-speed arc-jump nose landing, and it will not bottom.

It just deflects.

I know, cause I have a zip tie on the tube, to monitor fork action after adjustments are made.

I don't work on bike internals anymore. No space, no time, no desire.

I ported my first motor in 1972.

I made full leading-link suspension for my Schwinn Stingray in Jr High.

I made replacement damping rods for my DKW Betor forks on a lathe, in High School.

I still work on FCR carbs.

I've NEVER had this kind of problem with suspension on the last 14 bikes I've owned and raced.

Every normal tuning change I make seems to make no improvement, overall.

I've had superplush do the valving twice now.

I am ready to try Travis at TBT.

Edited by Krannie

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I totally hear ya! :)

Deflection is for sure a sign of poor valving. You don't have enough damping built into the system.

The reason why I mentioned Mat is because he changes out the compression valves with Moto-Pro's valves and they work very well to resolve this particular issue. John @ Moto-Pro does great work and I like his products, but he's a busy guy and its hard to get in touch with him directly sometimes. Mat is a great bloke and he is easy to talk with at any time. You can call him during your ride and he can tell you what to do. That kind of support, doesn't exist in this industry and I doubt Travis will answer his cell phone on sunday morning at church... Mat will. ;)

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The Moto-Pro looks like a more sophisticated version of the Pro-Action valve that I tried in my open-bath KYB's on the WR450. They helped a bunch.

Yeah, I'm begining to realize that Superplush is just another 'shim-swapper' company.....too bad...

Are you living in Washington?

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Naa, I'm in LA, but I heard about MotoPro and wanted to use him.

I learned about Mat through a friend of mine who used him locally as well. Mat is an engineer, he is not a shim shuffler. He designs solutions for your problem and then implements them. He is one of only 3 companies on the west coast who implement a shock/fork dyno on every single item sent back to the customer. He chooses his customers as well, suspension work is his passion, its not the main stay of his business. He also has a machine shop, thats where his money is made. Mat has never been wrong AND good for you, he sponsors lots of off-road racers, so for you his stuff will work even better then for me. ;)

Highly suggest Mat and John, both great guys. Are they the best for WP? I think so... unless you wanna spend crazy coin AND wait a few months.

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Your running the back too high and its weighting the forks too much, i

Ktms hate a high rear

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Your running the back too high and its weighting the forks too much, i

Ktms hate a high rear

I'm gonna go close to 115 and give her a try.

Naa, I'm in LA, but I heard about MotoPro and wanted to use him.

I learned about Mat through a friend of mine who used him locally as well. Mat is an engineer, he is not a shim shuffler. He designs solutions for your problem and then implements them. He is one of only 3 companies on the west coast who implement a shock/fork dyno on every single item sent back to the customer. He chooses his customers as well, suspension work is his passion, its not the main stay of his business. He also has a machine shop, thats where his money is made. Mat has never been wrong AND good for you, he sponsors lots of off-road racers, so for you his stuff will work even better then for me. ;)

Highly suggest Mat and John, both great guys. Are they the best for WP? I think so... unless you wanna spend crazy coin AND wait a few months.

Mat is local? He is shown on his Website to be in Washington state.............

Edited by Krannie

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I'm gonna go close to 115 and give her a try.

Yep, I agree.

Mat is local? He is shown on his Website to be in Washington state.............

Nope, both guys are in Washington as you said.

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WOW

That helped a lot.

24/55 front, 30/113 rear (with just helmet and boots).

Turned off the steering damper to fell everything:

I didn't have to hold on to the bars nearly as tight, and now it's starting to turn with rear wheel, with some control.

Now, if I raise the forks up in the tubes, won't I negate what I just did?

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Thats good news! What your doing by increasing the rider sag is lowering the rear end, you're changing the geometry of the machine, specifically trail. By doing this, you put less weight on the front end as well. You can do this without changing the sag through a shorter ride height link and then you can run more proper sag numbers. We use to call this setup the "stink bug".

In terms of the front, obviously if you lower the front (bring the tubes up) you will negate a lot of the changes you just made.

Edited by tye1138

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