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Faster Riding = More Deflection. Stiffer Or Softer On Clickers?

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I race Enduros and Cross Country on a 05 CR250R that is properly sprung. Shock and forks have been revalved for the type of riding I do (stacks are softer than stock and utilizing cross overs in the stack. Running .20 float on midvalve) . Suspension is plush at slow to medium speeds on tree roots and sharp edge rocks. At faster bike speeds I get deflection on rocks and roots and bike gets western! Forks never bottom out.

Do I need to soften or stiffen compression clickers? Soften or stiffen rebound clickers?

Is the suspension packing and if this is so, how do you detect if the suspension is packing? How do you prevent or fix suspension from packing?

A little nervous to push my speed for fear of deflecting and ending up taking a soil sample at higher speeds (been there done that).

I am all ears and eager to learn!

Thanks in advance for the help!

Edited by cleaner1

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More than likely it's sitting too low in the stroke at faster speeds. You need the suspension to recover quicker which means more comp damping and faster rebound damping. I would try 2-3 clicks of comp and see if it reacts better. You can also try going 1-2 clicks softer on the rebound to test.

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More than likely it's sitting too low in the stroke at faster speeds. You need the suspension to recover quicker which means more comp damping and faster rebound damping. I would try 2-3 clicks of comp and see if it reacts better. You can also try going 1-2 clicks softer on the rebound to test.

Thanks kan3! I will try that.

More feedback welcome.

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Personally , I would check your Fork Static and Rider sag and make sure you have the correct springs for your weight. Then I would probably try a click or two LESS compression. Maybe a click less rebound.

Also your tire and tire pressure will have a lot to do with deflection.

Edited by Dwight_Rudder

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How much travel do you have left? You could try removing some oil to prove of it needs to be softer or stiffer, 0.2 float is low for a woods type riding

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Personally , I would check your Fork Static and Rider sag and make sure you have the correct springs for your weight. Then I would probably try a click or two LESS compression. Maybe a click less rebound.

Also your tire and tire pressure will have a lot to do with deflection.

What do you believe the effects of a trials tire would be on deflection in sand whoops.

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How much travel do you have left? You could try removing some oil to prove of it needs to be softer or stiffer, 0.2 float is low for a woods type riding

You thinking the float should be more in the .30 range? Would that cause the bike to ride to low in the stroke on sharp edge objects?

Edited by cleaner1

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It would cause the bike to run lower in the stroke but it would be more compliant over rocks and roots. You may need to open the float up some for faster speeds. Though, If someone says that a bike works well at a medium pace and starts to deflect at faster speeds I would say it's probably running too low in the stroke. I definitely could be wrong but you need to test with clickers and oil level to find out.

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The correct springs and preload makes a big difference on ride height and helps keep it up in the stroke

How does a tire Deflect in sand ?

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The correct springs and preload makes a big difference on ride height and helps keep it up in the stroke

I have sprung my bike according to your sag recommendations. The bike handles and rides very well at low to mid speed over sharp edge objects on the trail. High speeds it starts to deflect. More on the front end than the back. Do you think opening up the float on the Mid-valve will help with fork deflection at high speed. I will open up the clickers on the compression, rebound and see what happens. Would like to be prepared for next move if this doesn't improve high speed deflection.

Thanks for all your help!

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I usually go with Max oil level and start backing off the clickers till it starts to bottom. Then go back in a couple clicks. Sand requires more compression than hardpack or intermediate terrain. You can also try lighter oil. I normally use Maxima RFF 5wt (actually closer to a 4wt). Or PJ1 2.5wt. All 5wts are not the same. Some are more like a 7wt and then others like Maxima are more like a 4wt.

I have sprung my bike according to your sag recommendations. The bike handles and rides very well at low to mid speed over sharp edge objects on the trail. High speeds it starts to deflect. More on the front end than the back. Do you think opening up the float on the Mid-valve will help with fork deflection at high speed. I will open up the clickers on the compression, rebound and see what happens. Would like to be prepared for next move if this doesn't improve high speed deflection.

Thanks for all your help!

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I dunno, but for me, the thing that made the most difference at high speeds was the sag.

But I also went 2 clicks softer comp and rebound and that helped things out as well.

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Stiffass springs, 1mm preload, and minimum oil level. Then you can tell what the compression damping is actually doing.

It's a spring with a damper for motion control. Not a pneumatic device.

Your bike is a twin chamber with ported spring seats, and they're fairly constrictive on the Showas. The oil height is only there to adjust the position at which the oil level goes slamming through those ports on an extreme high speed event. In twin chambers the oil height does next to nothing compared to open bath where it's affecting backpressure in the damper. In any case, that oil height will work nicely in the last 1/4 of the stroke or so if you set the height so it's hitting the spring seat at that point.

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I'd start with rebound on the fork, 2 clicks in either direction and see how it feels. Probably start with out/quicker.

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Stiffass springs, 1mm preload, and minimum oil level. Then you can tell what the compression damping is actually doing.

It's a spring with a damper for motion control. Not a pneumatic device.

Your bike is a twin chamber with ported spring seats, and they're fairly constrictive on the Showas. The oil height is only there to adjust the position at which the oil level goes slamming through those ports on an extreme high speed event. In twin chambers the oil height does next to nothing compared to open bath where it's affecting backpressure in the damper. In any case, that oil height will work nicely in the last 1/4 of the stroke or so if you set the height so it's hitting the spring seat at that point.

Hmmmm.

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I usually go with Max oil level and start backing off the clickers till it starts to bottom. Then go back in a couple clicks. Sand requires more compression than hardpack or intermediate terrain. You can also try lighter oil. I normally use Maxima RFF 5wt (actually closer to a 4wt). Or PJ1 2.5wt. All 5wts are not the same. Some are more like a 7wt and then others like Maxima are more like a 4wt.

I am using Maxima 5wt at 400cc. I will try backing out the clickers and see what that does. Thanks again!

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Check your oil level. 400cc is a ball park figure. Honda will give a maximum and a minimum oil level.

I am using Maxima 5wt at 400cc. I will try backing out the clickers and see what that does. Thanks again!

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