Neck Brace? Yes, No?

[tribalbc]

Side rant on this reasoning!

If one sues based on info that a medic did not support protective gear...a you're an idiot...b. you deserve every bill..ounce of pain and loss of motion because you're a piece of shit that sues people for being an idiot ...personally starting my own company and the insurance..fees..permits..inspections..taxes I have to pay because dumbshits think they will sue or think they can get there cut...this wonderful concept perpetuated by people like bc

 

 

Worlds full of idiots  ?

 

I think you guys invented the whole suing thing in the good old USA. 

[Crguy713]

Pretty soon everything mx related will have a big sticker...not for actual use! Then everywhere you ride there will be the dumbshit paper like we have in wa for equine sports...it states you're on a horse..it's big..it's a danger to you...you fall and get hurt its your fault..your &%$#@!ed ...good luck ...it's posted at every ranchers house where people ride horses every arena and rodeo barn...bubble wrap and hand sanitizer stocked in your gear bag ?

Worlds full of idiots  ?

 

I think you guys invented the whole suing thing in the good old USA.

[/quote

Yesr.i agree

[Dragon67]

A little more info and reason is needed for it to be a clear statement. You think as a med crew, if they said not to wear something, and someone injured themselves, they wouldn't sue?

Thats why I say it's a blanket lawyer statement. It covers their asses. Any lawsuit would then go to the safety equipment manufacturer, the med crew is free and clear of any issues..

In the USA lawyers have a saying: When you sue, sue everyone. The best legal cover anyone could have would be a statement like "We don't have a position on neck braces. We encourage our members to do their own research in the context of their needs to make their own decision about whether or not to wear any brand of neck brace, or any neck brace at all." They don't say that. They say they believe all members should wear neck braces. It is an important difference.

Of course, to your point, they are limiting their scope to "members". Also to your point, suing has not been only about justice in our country for a long time. While threat of lawsuit does keep some individuals and corporations in line, it also significantly increases the cost of doing business for everyone. 100 percent of that cost passes through to consumers in the form of higher prices for, presumably, safer products. I have my doubts about whether consumers are getting a good deal. I have no doubt that lawyers get a great deal.

As for those hurt . . . I may be biased. Lost a couple dear friends who worked for me on a plane crash traveling home from my meeting. Both young and bright. Many others were killed as well. It was clearly pilot error. I don't think limiting liability with artificially low caps in that case would have been good for justice. That's another side of the story.

Having some experience with motocross, I feel that any evidence presented by a plaintiff in a suit against a neck brace manufacturer would have to prove that plaintiff was not at fault for crashing in the first place (conributory negligence) and would not have been hurt as much or more without the neck brace and would not have had the potential to benefit in other potential crash scenarios because of the neck brace. That safety equipment can and will fail in some crash scenarios is a given. Is the safety equipment at fault, or is a rock on the track at fault, is the wrong tire pressure or tire tread at fault, or is improper suspension setup at fault? Maybe it's really the rider who is at fault. The Leatt cases Dave points out may introduce these questions. You never know with juries. I bet defendant wins, though.

[leafers826]

I am so glad you walked away from that. Your point about what pros wear is accurate. A doctor would recommend against MX in general, from my experience. Did the brace help you or hurt you? That's the multi-million dollar question. What did the docs say?

My doc, although good at what he does, has a horrible personality and spent his time criticizing the fact that I ride motorcycles.

On that particular crash, and a couple minor ones prior to this one, I felt it hurt me...that's not to say there aren't times it will help you. The problem is that unlike other pieces of protective equipment, it is very difficult to test. Although I don't feel the mx mags would intentionally advertise and promote something they felt could hurt you, I have to wonder how much money they receive from a full page advertisement. And with the facts inconclusive, I don't feel they are going to take money out of their pockets by refusing to advertise these. So where else are we getting educated?

Regarding the conversations on lawsuits, I was contacted by a lawyer from three states away shortly after my accident asking if I wanted to take part in an ongoing lawsuit against that manufacturer. I have no idea how he got my contact info or heard of the accident. I declined and told him I fully understood the risks when I got on my bike.

At the end of the day it's a personal decision whether to wear one or not based on the given facts....which is why I added my post. As mentioned, I don't wear it now...but I have slowed down. Hope this helps.

[MNkayaker]

A perfectly executed tuck and roll 

 

http://www.racerxonline.com/2013/09/29/video-eli-tomac-crash-at-mxon

[Crguy713]

A perfectly executed tuck and roll

http://www.racerxonline.com/2013/09/29/video-eli-tomac-crash-at-mxon

Maybe you will hold your breath on this fantisfull theory long enough to black out and we don't have see any more posts about you're superhuman ability to overcome all physics known to man..

First gear tuck and roll.

Second gear tuck and roll

Third gear tuck and roll

Fourth gear tuck and roll

Fifth gear tuck and roll..you must ride on a golf course if you think this is a plausible option in any universe 20% you can manipulate the other 80% you're an idiot tucking and rolling without gear....

Tuck and roll...like a boss

Edited September 30, 2013 by Crguy713

[Crguy713]

[Dragon67]

A perfectly executed tuck and roll 

 

http://www.racerxonline.com/2013/09/29/video-eli-tomac-crash-at-mxon

Ya, he didn't look at all like a rag doll hitting the ground. Of course, even if you made your point, you are looking at an athlete at the pinnacle of the sport. I get it! You were kidding. Well played. Well played, indeed!

[jqueen]

Ya, he didn't look at all like a rag doll hitting the ground. Of course, even if you made your point, you are looking at an athlete at the pinnacle of the sport. I get it! You were kidding. Well played. Well played, indeed!

No, he didn't look like a rag doll. Looked like he rolled with the crash. Do you expect a "tuck and roll" to be graceful? I don't think you can always react in time, but knowing how to hit the ground can and does reduce injury. It rarely looks like a "tuck and roll" that you might see a gymnast do in a trampoline.

[Crguy713]

No, he didn't look like a rag doll. Looked like he rolled with the crash. Do you expect a "tuck and roll" to be graceful? I don't think you can always react in time, but knowing how to hit the ground can and does reduce injury. It rarely looks like a "tuck and roll" that you might see a gymnast do in a trampoline.

Tomac landed on his face there was no tuck just roll.....

[jqueen]

Ahhh! TT's mobile app sucks so much more than regular tapatalk! Posted, then tried to edit and it showed that I had quoted my own post so I deleted the duplicate and then they were both gone...

Tomac didn't land on his face, he landed on his arms, then tucked them under his body. People always think of the head when they hear tuck and roll, but it doesn't always refer to the head.

Edited October 1, 2013 by jqueen

[pomoco]

I usually use the flop and slide technique.

[pomoco]

When i was a kid i hit a car head on while riding my atc 110 on the street. I was in second or third. Car was going pretty slow since it was snowing. I glanced off the hood, shattered their windsheild, and then landed on my feet behind the car in a full run. It was complete luck. I had zero control.

[Dragon67]

This is a good example of tuck and roll.  I actually think his shoulder hit, but he bounced back up.  Head up, Liam!!!  Anyway, for your entertainment . . . 

 

[BDubb106]

Not to be a dick but it looked like he just got hucked over the bars to me... the bike stopped, his body didn't. Anyone would have landed the same. I have done it. No tuck and roll involved.

 

To me a tuck and roll is a controlled movement to correct body position to absorb some of the impact. Not being tossed just far enough to land in ideal position accidentally.

 

Probably not the best example of a tuck and roll but theoretically the same thing I guess.

Edited October 1, 2013 by BDubb106

[jqueen]

Not to be a dick but it looked like he just got hucked over the bars to me... the bike stopped, his body didn't. Anyone would have landed the same. I have done it. No tuck and roll involved.

 

To me a tuck and roll is a controlled movement to correct body position to absorb some of the impact. Not being tossed just far enough to land in ideal position accidentally.

 

Probably not the best example of a tuck and roll but theoretically the same thing I guess.

I agree, it isn't the best example, but he could've made that crash worse by reacting differently.  If he had tried to get his feet under him, for example, or if he had just bricked instead of trying to keep view of the ground.  Did he do it intentionally, by instinct, or just because that's how he was thrown?  I don't know, but I've seen people come off in a similar way and land much worse.

[BDubb106]

I agree, it isn't the best example, but he could've made that crash worse by reacting differently.  If he had tried to get his feet under him, for example, or if he had just bricked instead of trying to keep view of the ground.  Did he do it intentionally, by instinct, or just because that's how he was thrown?  I don't know, but I've seen people come off in a similar way and land much worse.

As have I... maybe it was a tuck and roll maybe not. I have my doubt and was just stating my opinion of why it doesn't exactly fit into the argument. 

 

Def could have been worse though. Glad he landed how he did. That kid has taken some blows and comes back swinging every time! He must be doing something right.

[LovingOffroadPain]

My enduro crash (see recent thread) was in front of some motocrossers.  The VERY FIRST THING they asked was, "Dude are you ok!?!?  Did you hurt your neck!?!?"

 

The crash wasn't bad, I came up short on a natural jump and cased the front wheel, did some stoppie action but fell to the right side of the bike.  The bike broke my fall, then it hit the ground flipped on top of me.  But because I didn't have on a neck brace, these guys were POSITIVE that I broke my neck.  Even after I stood up, dusted myself off, said I was ok, etc, they still asked repeatedly if I hurt my neck.

 

This illustrates the growing trend amongst motocrossers to wear a neck brace, almost before wearing a helmet.  Neck braces have their places, I understand the need for them, but they are not nearly as necessary as other gear if you are riding enduro and trails.

[Dragon67]

As have I... maybe it was a tuck and roll maybe not. I have my doubt and was just stating my opinion of why it doesn't exactly fit into the argument. 

 

Def could have been worse though. Glad he landed how he did. That kid has taken some blows and comes back swinging every time! He must be doing something right.

 

Yes BDubb, he has.  The kid is like a machine.  He was elected captain of his football team, too, and it's the same story there.  Very proud of him, so thank you.

 

That vid was a rookie mistake, even though he had very little time to react.  If he had a clear line going into the whoops, as KJ coached him to do afterwards, he would not have been at risk.  "Head Up" is the coaching before every ride.  

 

Anyway, my friend, it was kind of a tongue-in-cheek statement about tuck-and-roll.  A little levity.  I think my position on tuck and roll as a viable defense is pretty well established.  MNkayaker would never accuse me of being a true believer.

 

However, that said, it's hard to argue that athletic ability doesn't help when you are flying through the air.  Maybe that's why when I fall on that bike I end up with two plates and 13 screws, while Liam ends up with a story to tell.  

 

May that be the case for all of our kids.

[BDubb106]

Yes BDubb, he has.  The kid is like a machine.  He was elected captain of his football team, too, and it's the same story there.  Very proud of him, so thank you.

 

That vid was a rookie mistake, even though he had very little time to react.  If he had a clear line going into the whoops, as KJ coached him to do afterwards, he would not have been at risk.  "Head Up" is the coaching before every ride.  

 

Anyway, my friend, it was kind of a tongue-in-cheek statement about tuck-and-roll.  A little levity.  I think my position on tuck and roll as a viable defense is pretty well established.  MNkayaker would never accuse me of being a true believer.

 

However, that said, it's hard to argue that athletic ability doesn't help when you are flying through the air.  Maybe that's why when I fall on that bike I end up with two plates and 13 screws, while Liam ends up with a story to tell.  

 

May that be the case for all of our kids.

I agree with everything in that post 110%. A lot can be done by the body and mind to minimize injury and land in the safest way possible. I firmly believe that and think it is a viable option to tuck and roll in certain instances, but to say tuck and roll is the save all is just laughable to me. It defies the laws of physics and time and cannot be done perfectly in every scenario. Just my opinion but I don't really wanna get into that debate which is why my responses have been minimal in this thread. I wear my brace for my own reasons, have done my own research and could care less what others think about my choice. If they chose not to wear one, well that is their right and choice and I will not try to convince them otherwise but the best argument in the world will not change my mind. Makes no difference to me either way.