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So I was doing some routine maintenance on my bike. Oil and Tranny fluid change. After I tried to put the oil screw back in it wouldn’t let me. Looked in the hole and saw a piece of metal. I wanted to crap my pants. So I took of the left crankcase and found the piece of metal. Looked at it and noticed chain marks on it, but the metal was relatively smooth. I than immediately looked behind the cam chain and discovered this. Has anyone had this issue? Do you think JB Weld would work? Why did this happen? I find it odd the plastic holder was still intact but the metal broke. I do ride really hard out here in the desert, but it looks like poor quality on Honda's part. I have the same year/model 09/450x as a backup, but this just made my weekend suck!

20130426_172612.jpg

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So I was doing some routine maintenance on my bike. Oil and Tranny fluid change. After I tried to put the oil screw back in it wouldn’t let me. Looked in the hole and saw a piece of metal. I wanted to crap my pants. So I took of the left crankcase and found the piece of metal. Looked at it and noticed chain marks on it, but the metal was relatively smooth. I than immediately looked behind the cam chain and discovered this. Has anyone had this issue? Do you think JB Weld would work? Why did this happen? I find it odd the plastic holder was still intact but the metal broke. I do ride really hard out here in the desert, but it looks like poor quality on Honda's part. I have the same year/model 09/450x as a backup, but this just made my weekend suck!

\

That's a new one to me...

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\

That's a new one to me...

Well you seem to know a bunch Krannie based on your other posts. Do you think it would be ok to ride like this?

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Where's the broken off piece? Did it get munched up? It looks to me like you can run that bike as that missing piece is not critical to anything.

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Where's the broken off piece? Did it get munched up? It looks to me like you can run that bike as that missing piece is not critical to anything.

It broke into two pieces. They could be jbwelded together, but do you think it would hold? After thinking about this. I have come to the conclusinon that the chain jumped a tooth or the cam tensioner is bad. I will inspect both tomorrow and let you guys know.

Edited by jkhonda

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How many hours on the motor....

Have you ever replaced the stock tensioner.....

I'll bet if you check the tensioner, it's stuck, causing the chain to go slack, and whip.

I would not start that motor till the chain and tensioner are inspected.

That boss in the case can be welded back in place, I would think.........

Edited by Krannie

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This happened to me. In my opinion the only way it can happen is if the cam chain forces the guide into that brace. I JB Welded it back into place (after putting in a new chain and tensioner) but after decided it was to risky as that piece could easily break off and block the oil pickup. It that happens it would destroy the entire motor, so I ended replacing the case half.

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This happened on my trx 450r a few years ago. I wouldn't JB weld it back in If this were my bike. I would replace the cam chain and tensioner(although i have not seen one go bad) put t it back together and ride. IMHO. Dont know why Honda hasn't updated this as it was very common on the quads. Goto trx 450r.org and do a search you will find plenty of post on this exact thing.

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I'd have to disagree with the others....looking at the photo, you can see what look like small cracks radiating from the place where it broke off. Can't tell for sure if those are casting marks, scratches, or actual cracks, but there's not much left holding the cam chain guide in any case. I could see the bottom of the guide slipping out of the pocket. Plastic would probably get chewed up pretty quick if it did, but it might cause more damange if it did.

I do agree that I would not JB weld it. Not sure what you can do with it though outside of replacing the crankcase half.

Jim.

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If anyone is interested in buying this bike let me know. It has around 61 hours. It runs fine minus this issue. Not something I am interested in fixing. Its a 2009 and have title for it and all paperwork when bought new.

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How many hours on the motor....

Have you ever replaced the stock tensioner.....

I'll bet if you check the tensioner, it's stuck, causing the chain to go slack, and whip.

I would not start that motor till the chain and tensioner are inspected.

That boss in the case can be welded back in place, I would think.........

It has 61 hours on it. Had AS Racing replace valves 13 hours ago and also replaced the piston with Honda OEM. I should of taken your advice to replace the cam chain tensioner when I was doing the valves. :) I am checking the cam chain timing and the tensioner today. I'll let you guys know how everything turned out. Thanks for all the help!

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I'd have to disagree with the others....looking at the photo, you can see what look like small cracks radiating from the place where it broke off. Can't tell for sure if those are casting marks, scratches, or actual cracks, but there's not much left holding the cam chain guide in any case. I could see the bottom of the guide slipping out of the pocket. Plastic would probably get chewed up pretty quick if it did, but it might cause more damange if it did.

I do agree that I would not JB weld it. Not sure what you can do with it though outside of replacing the crankcase half.

Jim.

The small cracks are just casting marks. I inspected it really closely after seeing it in the picture. I am not going to JB weld I am going to leave it off for now.

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It has 61 hours on it. Had AS Racing replace valves 13 hours ago and also replaced the piston with Honda OEM. I should of taken your advice to replace the cam chain tensioner when I was doing the valves. :) I am checking the cam chain timing and the tensioner today. I'll let you guys know how everything turned out. Thanks for all the help!

Well, that is unfortunate..... valves at 61 hours....?

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The guide is now only being held in with a very small amount of material at the bottom. Personally, I wouldn't ride it like that. Me being me, I would try to tig weld it back in place. You'll be replacing that case anyways, so you might as well try to weld it first. You might be able to weld it without pulling the whole engine apart. Just take off all the plastic and rubber around that area. JB weld isn't going to work on a stressed piece like that.

I'd also check the tensioner and chain.

Edited by yellowdatsun

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Cam chain tensioner needs to be replaced like has already been mentioned, replace the chain also

Doesnt sound like there was major engine damage done other than the broken piece on the case which is bad enough, hopefully the valves didnt hit the piston.

When the tensioner lets go even briefly the chain can and often times does bunch up and bust that piece off down at the bottom near the crank gear. IMO the engine should not be run until the case half is replaced, also a manual cam chain tensioner is the only way to go.

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http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1009827-manual-can-chain-tensioner/page__hl__+manual%20+cam%20+chain%20+tensioner#entry10610278

For whatever reason there seems that the manual cam chain tensioners are frowned upon by some which really doesnt make any sense. Not sure why anyone would almost go as far to advise against installing a MCCT. Interesting how the term "internet geniuses" made its way into this thread.

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It could be that the chain bunched up in the bottom of the case (when the head was off?) and if you turn the engine over by hand the bunched up chain will do that damage.

Edited by zack05

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If what's left of the case holding the chain guide is in good shape I would replace the chain guides, tensioner, and cam chain and run it. Of course if you are going to go that far then the argument could be made to replace the left case and do it all up right. If you like the bike and intend on keeping it then do the whole fix. If you sell it as is it won't be worth much anyway....Maybe a couple thousand to the rolling chassis.

Edited by cubera

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To bad you are not closer, I live in Washington state and could weld that up for you. I dont doubt that there are some good TIG welders in Tx. My process would be to get the bike from you with all the solf stuff removed from that side. I would then clean the area really well with a brake clean of some kind and then polish part and case with SS wire wheel. Set amp setting for thickness and grind 2% lanthanated tungsten SHARP and tack, tack, tack, tack it in there. Carful not to build up too much heat/pressure as I am not sure what is on the back side of that boss. I would also advise you that this is a effort to save you some money and time on replacing the case half. It would not come with a 100% success rate tell the weld cools as cast aluminum can be a bitch some times and the weld will most likely look like crap due to that cast being soaked in oil its life.

I hope this never happens to my 450 but if it does I would weld it myself and then have plans to replace the case half on the next piston.

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