The Great Oil Debate before you post a new thread.

OK, since we get 5-10 new threads every week on "What oil should I use" or "What Mixture should I run". Well, here's the general consensus. There's a right way and a wrong way...all based on the individual you're talking to. So, yes, it's an OPINION. I'm not going to post my personal usage or results because they are mine and others may not agree. So, I'm not here to debate, just state the facts.

Oil debates explained;

Engine: Some say Dino oil (conventional) is better or just as good as synthetic. Synthetic is a waste of money. I like this or I like that, etc. etc.

So, in proven tests & results, Synthetic is far superior to dino oils. Synthetics are less prone to fouling plugs even when a richer mixture is run, lubricate 100x better, prolong the life of internal parts & burn much cleaner. On that note, a dino oil should never be run leaner the 36:1. Synthetics have been known to run as high as 200:1 with proper engine building and proper fuels used. Your typical ratio for a synthetic will be 50:1. For dino oils, 32:1.

Awhile back, a very knowledgeable and respected member (Chokey) on here, did a small write-up in a thread that explained how much oil your internal parts actually see when based on certain mix ratios. In endstate, it was very, very little, even at 32:1. It was very informative and accurate. So, a good oil is a must if you want an engine to last more than 5 hours.

Spooge & Mixture: Spooge has Nothing to do with your mix ratio! Unless you mix at 10:1 and some how it manages to run like that.

Spooge is a jetting issue!

Fuels: Mixtures willalso vary based on what type of fuel you use. Higher octane fuels are less prone to detonation and also have a better cooling effect on the piston that helps in the lubrication of the topend. Heat creates a higher chance of friction because it's burning off the oil, then friction creates more heat which causes wear and eventual failure.

Also remember all your typical "Pump" fuels have 10% Ethanol, or more. In a general sense, you can say water. Basically not good!!!

[richer jetting is required for high octane fuels]

Transmission oils: This is where the biggest debate is. Here's what you generally hear, read, etc.

ATF Type F, Rotella T, Amsoil, Walmart 10-40, yada-yada-yada. Everyone has their own opinions.

Some swear by one where others totally disagree.

Some general insight, All Euro bike companies (who are still running strong with 2 strokes) recommend Motorex oils. FYI, Motorex "ATF Super" is identical to ATF. The thing to remember is you transmission is no different internally than an automatic tranmission in a car. I has gears & clutch plates. So you should see where I'm getting at. Just know that Dex III / Mercon andDex VI have many more detergents in them that is really not intended for a bikes clutches. So the Type F dates back into the 1960's and is a great oil for a 2T application. As is any quality 10-40. NOT synthetic oils though. It needs to be a conventional oil. Sythetics are made to reduce friction. Your clutch requires friction to operate.

On a side note*** Please do not ask, "how much oil does my bike take?" It's on your bike. Somewhere on the right sidecase will be a casting that will refer to something like .850L or 850ml. What ever it says, that's what it holds. If you're wandering how to measure out the corrcect amount, well, do you know that thing you used to measure the oil for your fuel mixture, it probably has ml measurements on it too. The typical "Ratio-rite" cup measure 500ml. So, pour in the 500, the fill cup to 350 and, voila', 850ml (referencing a KX250). Just clean it out well before you put 2T oil back in it.

No, I didn't blow another gasket. Just very tired and a very slow day at work. Didn't get home from a race until 1am. sleep till 2 up at 5 and since I can't take a nap at work, I might as well type something. But going home in 5 min.

Thanks. I used 200:1 based on your suggestion and my motor seized. Where do I send the bill? :moon:

I vote this gets added to the "NEW GUYS, IN HERE FIRST !" sticky.

It is actually the most clear and concise overview of any that I have read. I would like to add that all 3 oils test out to the same weight,

ATF, 10w 40, and gear oil. I found it on some oil analysis suite years ago prior to running ATF my self

more faster = more oil

more smaller engine = more oil

Let's kick another dead horse and add coolant to the great debate..lol just kidding. Great write up.

Thanks. I used 200:1 based on your suggestion and my motor seized. Where do I send the bill? :moon:

Well, all I can suggest is send the bill to your 3rd grade teacher for not teaching you well in reading comprehension.

PROPER engine building and PROPER fuels
:rolleyes:

Oh man, had that all figured out then, bam, like a slap out of nowhere, What color oil do I use? Some are red, blue, purple, green. And is it okay to mix colors? ;)

Hmmmm. My fuel is purple, my oil is red. Masking tape and a marker is your friend! :thumbsup:

I want a bibliography...

:smirk:

I vote this gets added to the "NEW GUYS, IN HERE FIRST ! sticky.

I would like to add it in but he locked it.

A good read.

My only issue:

Also remember all your typical "Pump" fuels have 10% Ethanol, or more. In a general sense, you can say water. Basically not good

we all know better than that right? Sure, Exx doesnt have the BTUs that petrol does... and you have to jet richer for it due to the 9:1 ish stoich... but water? Cmon now ;) I get your point, but that's misleading and innacurate.

Edited by supergenius

In reply, I attended a conference for for an oil company I distribute for. They showed us a demonstration of pump 89 octane w/ 10% ethanol and used a process to separate the water from the gas due to ethanol. There was over 1 cup of water in a gallon of gas that was compounded in the ethanol. I was pretty shocked.

Gonna see if I can track down a vid of this.

I have a good deal of experience with various "race gas" and some ethanol blends of different sorts (including a newer one that has 5% nitromethane in it)...

Petrol:

Sunoco (underwhelmed)

Trick 114 119

Shell URT ---- THIS STUFF IS THE SHIT!!!! Truly unleaded with better knock resistance than C16 and NO LEAD in it to do so. Purely through chemical compound :o)... VERY happy with it, better than C16.... Almost on par with VP import or Q16, but no MTBE to &%$#@! with rubber fuel components/injector pintles)

VP (C16 Q16)

and Ethanol/ Methanol :

Ignite Red etc.

VP M1 M5

FTW Purple (Theyll tell you theres no Nitro in it, but lets just simplify it and say, there is. Period, Mass spectrometers don't lie LOL)

Import turbo motors.... From 250-450 HP N/A 2.4 Liter engines to 1500+ HP 2.0-2.2 liters (the pic in my sig is the 2.2L 850 WHP 2.2 Liter in my streetcar)...

I totally get what you're saying, and Ethanol wicks moisture out of everything if it stands too long. Complicating shit are the seasonal blends they use.

Not tryhing to be a dick, just sayin :) Some people take the generalization and run with it (if they don't know better). Theres a 900 WHP pump gas twin turbo caddilac sitting in my garage as well, Its about to be tuned on e85 (and around 1200 WHP). Weve been &%$#@!ing around with testing whats available, as wella s content in gasoline... Testing to seeif its REALLY true the gas stations claiming 100 Percent petrol. Some lie. I havent seen anything near as much H20 as youre saying, but believe it. There are many variables, hard for 10 percent to wick that much vapor by volume. ;)

I run 3 gallons 92 to 1 gallon Q16 (Its oxygenated) with 40:1 927. Smells delicious, and jetting seems spot on, Im on the pipe about 60 -70 percent of the time and no nasty messes :o)

Edited by supergenius

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