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yet another camshaft question

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I don't ride desert , I ride mixed trails ranging from singletrack to quad width doubletrack and can sometimes ride for hours in 3rd gear alone seemingly--- when the trails open up, I can get it in 4th, but I am never running it hard enough to even think about valve float

A gentleman in the area who is an engine builder (primarily mx though) suggested using the '05 R cam instead of the '02, -- and advised that working over the stock head was a better idea than swapping on an R head

I agree with the stock head idea -- the smaller valves will keep it punchy down low, but everything I have heard on here says the '02 cam is for men and everything else is for clowns --- is this just a desert/ So Cal recommendation?

Just curious why this former factory wrench wouldn't be hip to the 02 cam idea

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I don't ride desert , I ride mixed trails ranging from singletrack to quad width doubletrack and can sometimes ride for hours in 3rd gear alone seemingly--- when the trails open up, I can get it in 4th, but I am never running it hard enough to even think about valve float

A gentleman in the area who is an engine builder (primarily mx though) suggested using the '05 R cam instead of the '02, -- and advised that working over the stock head was a better idea than swapping on an R head

I agree with the stock head idea -- the smaller valves will keep it punchy down low, but everything I have heard on here says the '02 cam is for men and everything else is for clowns --- is this just a desert/ So Cal recommendation?

Just curious why this former factory wrench wouldn't be hip to the 02 cam idea

Most "former factory wrenches" are comparing the cam in regards to how it made power in the 450R.

Yeah, the 02 was a beast that was like a light switch. Remember, Honda designed that cam in 02, the beginning of the 4 stroke era. They were trying to win over guys who were riding big 2 strokes. They wouldn't be happy switching to 4 strokes if they didn't feel a hit...to them, the hit WAS the power.

The Magazines didn't care for the power delivery and said it was too tiring to ride.

In 03 Honda detuned the cam. The Mags liked it better but still weren't sold. In 04 Honda detuned the crap out of it and made it nice and mellow.

The Mags loved it...easy to ride, etc. Honda kept the same grind through 06. In 07, The started to go back the other way in power delivery because the other makes had caught up and were surpassing the CRF.

Where your "former factory wrench" has erred in his thoughts is the difference in the X engine versus the R. The X has a ton more rotating mass, heavier crank, flywheel, starter clutch assembly. The 02 R cam delivers smooth linear power from bottom to top...no big hit...no small power band. The 02 lets you tractor all day and then can loft the front wheel at the hint of some throttle when the mood strikes.

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I've had both.

Stock head, '05 R cam : nocticable, but stagy power

Stage one porting, '05 R cam: much more noticable but still to stagy.

Stage one porting, '02 cam; much broader, smoother, stronger power

Stage three porting, '02 R cam: &%$#@! YEAH

Seriously, the '02 cam in the X is actually easier tor ride than the '05, cause the '05 doesn't change anything below about 5k, so it has a two-stage power band. Not usable on loose steep terrain.

Even though the '02 is more aggressive in quantity, it's much better in quality.

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Where your "former factory wrench" has erred in his thoughts is the difference in the X engine versus the R. The X has a ton more rotating mass, heavier crank, flywheel, starter clutch assembly. The 02 R cam delivers smooth linear power from bottom to top...no big hit...no small power band. The 02 lets you tractor all day and then can loft the front wheel at the hint of some throttle when the mood strikes.

Thanks man! I will bring this up in my next convo - the bike isn't in surgery yet- LOL --- sent ya a pm

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As an aside -- and I don't blame you guys' if you call me a "lazy ass" -- but I was contemplating just sending the carb to Tokyo Mods and have them build it back ---- I've fussed around with the carbs a little bit on my bikes, but other somewhat knowledgable guys I ride still say i'm way too lean --- I've had a post or two on here where I complained about hard starting after get-offs and other ailments and just want to be done with it

-- in the off road riding group I have been running with lately, I have been labeled the "prissy mx boy" due to my sad wrench turning skills -- but i'm a whirling dervish with both a power washer and a grease gun- LOL

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As an aside -- and I don't blame you guys' if you call me a "lazy ass" -- but I was contemplating just sending the carb to Tokyo Mods and have them build it back ---- I've fussed around with the carbs a little bit on my bikes, but other somewhat knowledgable guys I ride still say i'm way too lean --- I've had a post or two on here where I complained about hard starting after get-offs and other ailments and just want to be done with it

-- in the off road riding group I have been running with lately, I have been labeled the "prissy mx boy" due to my sad wrench turning skills -- but i'm a whirling dervish with both a power washer and a grease gun- LOL

But you WON'T be done with it. That's the point.

You will need to maintain it, adjust it, clean it, repair it, and re-tune it as the carb and motor wear out.

In the time you own the bike you will have to replace the apump diaghragm, fuel screw o-ring, and the emulsion tube, just from wear and smog rot.

Might as well man-up and do what's hard. You like yourself better. it's only hard once.

Tokyo mods will put on the wrong fuel screw (alloy instead of brass) and throw in some jets and a bunch of stupid anodized parts, and charge you $500.00!

I have my carb tuned about as well as I am aware it can be tuned. It took me 3 years and lots of advice to learn what to do.

We are telling you in a few paragraphs what to do and how to do it. Priceless knowledge.

Hell, send it to AS Racing for about half that or less, and get the most current tuning updates to the FCR carb, not a 'corporate sell'.

Edited by Krannie

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Might as well man-up and do what's hard. You like yourself better. it's only hard once.

Tokyo mods will put on the wrong fuel screw (alloy instead of brass) and throw in some jets and a bunch of stupid anodized parts, and charge you $500.00!

Personally, I wont like myself any better-- I have some bi-polar tendencies. If I drop a circlip, washer, o-ring, needle bearing -- you name it - down a dark hole - whatever is handy next to me will likely be flung with some force in an as yet to be determined location🤣🤣

Tokyo's cost to rebuild is $190 plus extra $$ for anything over and above a basic rebuild -- didn't seem cost prohibitive , but maybe its like when n you take your car in to have pads and rotors replaced, and the shop tells you that you need an alignment, ring/pinion servicing and a timing chain too

i'll see what I can do myself -- cant hurt too much - (this is where the 2nd back up bike may come in handy for a few days)

'02 cam is where i'm heading also on the top end rebuild 👍 ---

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I've had both.

Stock head, '05 R cam : nocticable, but stagy power

Stage one porting, '05 R cam: much more noticable but still to stagy.

Stage one porting, '02 cam; much broader, smoother, stronger power

Stage three porting, '02 R cam: &%$#@! YEAH

Seriously, the '02 cam in the X is actually easier tor ride than the '05, cause the '05 doesn't change anything below about 5k, so it has a two-stage power band. Not usable on loose steep terrain.

Even though the '02 is more aggressive in quantity, it's much better in quality.

Krannie, Are you still using the stock head on your bike with Stage 3 porting? Just asking to keep it clear in my head for when the time comes to rebuild mine. I miss the hit that my 06 450 R had with it's high compression piston and Stage 2 Hot Cam. And what exhaust are you using?

TIA Jason

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Krannie, Are you still using the stock head on your bike with Stage 3 porting? Just asking to keep it clear in my head for when the time comes to rebuild mine. I miss the hit that my 06 450 R had with it's high compression piston and Stage 2 Hot Cam. And what exhaust are you using?

TIA Jason

'05 X head, AS Racing stage 3 port and polish, '02 R cam, Dubach Racing full stainless

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