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Pennsylvania Riders in PA please Watch!

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I would like people to watch this and give me their opinion on it. I received a citation in PA for illegal travel on my KLR just check it out and tell me your opinions. and feel free to subscribe to my motvlog

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Boy tough call...in most states (especially in the east), your supposed to know where your allowed to ride before you ride there.

Usually though if your nice, explain that you didn't know, etc. Most cops will just say "we got a complaint" and ask you to leave, unless of course they've caught you more then once in a spot.

And maybe that's what they've got going on here, but "a game area"? Was it hunting season?

I'd just try and be reasonable with the judge; I've seen others back there, never have been stopped before, and nothing is posted or gated.

And BTW "ATV" is just a classification as you thought for anything off-road that's not a car or truck. It's the same here in NY.

Shame you can't ride there; nice ride.

Jim.

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Sorry to hear this. But the game comission is a bunch of power hungry NAZIs that are trying to take over all private land where people ride. The property doesn't have to be under lease the land owner just needs to sign up for the "Private Landowner Assistance Program" which is basically aimed at cracking down on atv/dirtbike riders. Generally you are required a warning first if there is no signage on the land, if there is signage you are in trouble.

I would never ride on land that I didn't have permission to ride on in the first place. But I also believe that you should get a warning first.

And I would also fight the ticket anyways. Your not an ATV as it's defined by PA state regs. A ATV is any motorized offhighway vehicle which travels on three or more inflatable tires. I think that is where I would fight the ticket, they wrote you a false citation.

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I lost against the PA DCNR when I fought a citation a few years back on a different mountain. Technically I'm guilty of riding there as the citation says, but like what you guys are saying,no signage? No gates? .....and while I agree I should know where I am allowed before I ride there ... I was under the impression I was allowed there since we've rode there for the past 14 years and I personally have never seen any officers up there or signs.

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I tried to edit my comment yesterday, but TT was down. I was also going to add that you should also say to the judge, "Now that I know, I won't be back there either".

They may give you a break, they may not.

Good luck with the judge!

Jim.

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I would explain to the court that the property was poorly marked,you did not see any posted signs or gates, check the parcel viewer and see what land that is where you entered. Tell them you always check the parcel viewer prior to riding it. If you explain how much you took caution before riding it it will show you are responsible. Good luck buddy pa courts can be tough.

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Signage is everything. I gotta say though, water authority land is always closed to the public...at least in my travels. But no signs? "How was I to know"? It was kinda' shitty they didn't let you off with a warning, but the state is broke and any state employee has at this point been told to make some money. Think about it. When was the last time you laid eyes on a DCNR or Fish and Game truck on the trails at this level. That area where you were stopped looks like a perfect area to "teach the kids"....hmm.

It's gonna' be a money maker for those guys. And it is not MARKED. Go figure. Fight that one as hard as you can. If nothing else they will need to put up proper signage. Save the next guy in there.

Edited by poconovfr

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.....oh yeah. That was one of the fastes tickets I've ever seen issued....and nice presentation.

Edited by poconovfr

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It's almost laughable the cops didn't even know who's land it is. Don't know about Pa, but in Mass. there have to be signs, and they have to include the name of the land owner. Just some random no trespassing signs won't do it.

I think I'd assume the worst if I saw a truck coming toward me on a p/l. Pull a quick u turn and bolt,see ya.

Good luck with it.

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I had the same thing happen up in Canada concerning former Ontario Hydro land sold to "Ontario realty corporation"

you got to ask the question why is the officer driving on private property enforcing a no trespassing law, is he getting paid from the private land owner ?

is he a tax collector with a gun?

is it a homeland security issue because of the power lines?

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I had the same thing happen up in Canada concerning former Ontario Hydro land sold to "Ontario realty corporation"

you got to ask the question why is the officer driving on private property enforcing a no trespassing law, is he getting paid from the private land owner ?

is he a tax collector with a gun?

is it a homeland security issue because of the power lines?

He was on water property land so that is a homeland security issue. There have been multiple people receiving hefty fines in the St. Clair area that ride near the water authorities property.

Maybe you should be thankful you didn't get one of those fines. I think their close to a grand.

Edited by 79yamdt

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It would be interesting to know which 'code' they cited you from. Was it the 'vehicle code', or possibly 'game regulations' ? Can you tell us the code and the section and sub-section of that code that you were cited for?

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I'm pretty sure the land has to be posted with the land owners name. Wether it be state or water authority or private land owner

Edited by mjgarrone

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Did a little quick research, and this trespassing thing always comes up and is kind of a mystery as to who and where they cite you. We're not mindreaders, so if the land isn't posted, how are you supposed to know? Anyway, good luck, and followup after your hearing. I'd also say it depends on how they wrote it up. ATV loophole might work, and if they just said "trespassing", then you could try the fight from the law and case law below...

If you look up the trespass code - here

18 Pa.C.S. §3503(B)

it says you're trespassing if you disobey a communication, posting, fence, etc...

also, if you look at this case law - here

Commonwealth v Sweeley, thought not quite the same kind of issue, lol. It says in section 433 -

If no precaution was taken, no reasonable expectation of privacy would exist, because such precautions are required to make a trespasser a defiant trespasser as defined in 18 Pa.C.S. §3503(B). If the precautions are not taken, public policy mandates a presumption that open lands are available for use by the public. Open lands that are not posted or fenced off are presumed open for recreational use by the public, especially in rural counties where hunting and outdoor activities are common.

Therefore, this court finds that an owner of open land who takes any precaution similar to those set forth in 18 Pa.C.S. §3503(B) has a protected privacy interest under Article I, Section 8 in open fields which are not in open view to anyone on surrounding land or a reasonable distance above the land. Since no precautions were taken to exclude trespassers in this case, defendant could not have had a reasonable expectation of privacy.

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First off, that sucks man.

However....

If someone were to ride their dirtbike on your lawn is it OK because you don't have signs up? How about if you have a bigger lawn? How about a really big lawn? How about a ton of acres with powerlines on it with trails made by trespassers?

Where is the line drawn?

Common sense tells you that if you don't own it, you have no right to be on it. So is it a violation? Yes. Will a judge let it slide the first time? We'll find out.

It sucks that there aren't enough places for us to ride, we all know that. But when you get caught riding on property that isn't yours, what can you really say? The officers didn't treat you like a criminal, they treated you like a guy who was trying to enjoy a nice ride on property that isn't his. It doesn't matter that your bike is registered, it doesn't matter that they called it an ATV.

Don't listen to guys saying this some kind of money maker, it is easier for those guys to hide and ignore violations than to do their job. They don't see any of that money, and regardless if they write that citation or not, it isn't going to effect anything for them but you not trespassing there again. Those guys were patrolling and they ran right into you breaking the law. What do you expect? If you owned that property and a trespasser was on it, what would you expect them to do?

In my opinion, an apology to the officers and judge, assurance that it won't happen again b/c you didn't know, and now you do, should go father than anything else.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.

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In MA. All private property is considered off limits unless you have written permission from the landowner .

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