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Ever modify the TT skid plate?

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I just got back from Taylor Park Reservoir, and had a minor accident (probably major) there with my water pump.

Here's that thread outlining the damage...

I was running the TT skid plate, which does seem to be well built. However, in looking at it, it appears that one of the weaknesses is that if you do hit something hard enough on the side, especially while moving forward, like I did, there's not enough rigidity in that direction to keep it from moving, and crushing into the water pump.

Has anyone ever modified this guard to weld on an extra "leg" on it, on the waterpump side so that that leg is stiffer and wouldn't be as prone to bend? Here's a very very POOR picture of what I'm thinking about doing:

IMG_20130707_133204.jpg

The way that the guard is today, it DOES provide good protection from most things, but if you hit something hard enough on the side, specifically moving forward, I could easily see this same thing happening again. This is going to be a $400 repair for me, before it's all said and done, so it's not cheap to fix when this happens...

CADman_ks

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Sure you could add onto that wing, but if you still hit something hard enough it will flex or bend and still hit the WP. That was a pretty good whack, hard not to break something under that kind of impact.

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I just got back from Taylor Park Reservoir, and had a minor accident (probably major) there with my water pump.

Here's that thread outlining the damage...

I was running the TT skid plate, which does seem to be well built. However, in looking at it, it appears that one of the weaknesses is that if you do hit something hard enough on the side, especially while moving forward, like I did, there's not enough rigidity in that direction to keep it from moving, and crushing into the water pump.

Has anyone ever modified this guard to weld on an extra "leg" on it, on the waterpump side so that that leg is stiffer and wouldn't be as prone to bend? Here's a very very POOR picture of what I'm thinking about doing:

IMG_20130707_133204.jpg

The way that the guard is today, it DOES provide good protection from most things, but if you hit something hard enough on the side, specifically moving forward, I could easily see this same thing happening again. This is going to be a $400 repair for me, before it's all said and done, so it's not cheap to fix when this happens...

CADman_kshttp://ruggedrider.com/products.html I use the skidplate on this page. I have bent the waterpump wing out and notched the bottom edge of a lightspeed carbon fiber guard to fit in between the aluminum plate and the bike. Just this skidplate itself will be better than what you have.

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Why not build some crash bars? They would protect more than just the water pump.

Edited by Rhinoracer

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Why not build some crash bars? They would protect more than just the water pump.

...OR....

buy one of these:

TCI skid plate and engine guard...

This would have been a LOT better than the TT guard, BUT, I'm sure that this thing weighs more than the TT guard. Let's face it, this bike is already heavy enough!!

ScreenShot087.jpg

I'm going to try to model the TT guard in 3D as close as I can, and then run some FEA on it to see what how much force it takes to displace it as far as I did. Then, I'll add the piece that I'm talking about, and see what that does for the forces. That should give me a better idea of whether or not what I'm talking about doing is even worth messing with...

CADman_KS

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I had a "similar" incident where a was climbing a steep rocky trail, got to the top and dropped the bike on its side (onto a ledge). The rock dented the water pump outlet and cut the radiator hose.

At the time I wished the "wings" on the guard were higher and had protected the hose... stuff happens. I don't think there is a way to fully protect the bike against all damage.

With your design I believe it would strengthen the wing. However in an impact the forces would still present a large moment/stress on the weld between the wing and the base. That's what happened right, the wing got pushed into the engine case? A better plan would be to somehow fix the top of the wing to spread the load and keep the wing from bending in, but to what? The engine side case? Now in an impact some of the force would go right to the cover.... probably not good in larger impacts.

If you could mount it to some "hard points" (engine moints, frame) that would be the best. That TCI one looks good, probably overkill for most.

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I had a "similar" incident where a was climbing a steep rocky trail, got to the top and dropped the bike on its side (onto a ledge). The rock dented the water pump outlet and cut the radiator hose.

At the time I wished the "wings" on the guard were higher and had protected the hose... stuff happens. I don't think there is a way to fully protect the bike against all damage.

...

Yeah, I'm fully in agreement there that short of putting 1/4" ballistic steel around the entire machine, stuff happens, and you just have to deal with it. In your case, you actually dropped the bike. In my case, I was actually MOVING at the time, and struck the rock that was that high off the ground!!, and then it pushed the entire bike over to the side, and the cover wasn't strong enough to handle the impact.

...

With your design I believe it would strengthen the wing. However in an impact the forces would still present a large moment/stress on the weld between the wing and the base. That's what happened right, the wing got pushed into the engine case? A better plan would be to somehow fix the top of the wing to spread the load and keep the wing from bending in, but to what? The engine side case? Now in an impact some of the force would go right to the cover.... probably not good in larger impacts.

...

Yeah, the wing got pushed into the case. In fact, I hit the very TOP of the wing, and its most vulnerable point, or the point where it was the easiest to bend. I can't tell that there has been any damage to the welds. And, if it could hold long enough to break the welds, I'd be fine with the welds on the guard breaking. I could always weld that back together, or get a new one.

Knock on wood, I've dropped my bike too many times to count on rocks like you described, and the guards have always done there job and kept things from breaking. I suppose that there's always that "one" time when all the stars align, and the rock still gets ya. In the end, that's most likely what really happened to me in this case.

I took the guard off today to measure it up. I have actually done quite a bit of tweaking on this guard, NOT just from this one incident but from hitting other things, mostly on this ONE trip that I just got back from. It IS amazing how much abuse this guard can take and still protect the engine. If I had still had the stock guards on there, I would have a LOT more problems than I do currently.

Thanks for the input!!!

CADman_KS

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Well, bummer...

To all of the nay-sayers out there that told me it wouldn't work, you were right. CAD data more or less proves that out, as near as I could tell.

However, my idea DID improve on the cover, it just didn't improve it enough to make the change worthwhile. The CAD model's indicate that the after adding the flange, the area that impacted the water pump, given the same loading conditions, would move .08 less than without the flange. That's a gain, but, it's not the gain that I was hoping for. One of the things that I was planning on, that didn't happen, was being able to put more of an angle on the actual top flange. Because of all of the stuff that's behind there, I'm more or less limited to only about a 30degree flange. While that helps, it doesn't help as much as a 60 or 90 degree flange, which would be ideal.

As a side note, the models indicate that it should take somewhere around 600lbs of force pushing on the top of the guard to move the guard the distance that it went to break my water pump. (these are all numbers based on sight alone, as I can't really measure them until I have the new pieces) HOWEVER, that number does NOT include the extra force that would have been required to break the water pump housing, the water pump base, and the case. Those items definitely brought some strength to the party before they let go. It wouldn't surprise me if the force that I hit the rock with is in the 1000 lb range. I HIT THIS ROCK HARD! I knew as soon as I heard the water coming out, that that it was 100% fatal. I hit the rock so hard, that it actually moved the bike some to the left laterally. I don't know how much, but I could feel it move underneath me. At the end of the day, I'm probably pretty lucky that I didn't tear up more crap than I did!!!

Oh well, at least I didn't spend a lot of time modifying the guard, only to find out later on that I did myself no good!!!

CADman_KS

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You could extend the wing, then attach it to a cage or crash guard like Rino suggested. If the wing was braced forward to the frame then back to the frame I think that would cover anything but a 90 year old lady in a Grand Marquise hitting you broadside in a mall parking lot because she hit the "gas" instead of the "brake".

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You could extend the wing, then attach it to a cage or crash guard like Rino suggested. If the wing was braced forward to the frame then back to the frame I think that would cover anything but a 90 year old lady in a Grand Marquise hitting you broadside in a mall parking lot because she hit the "gas" instead of the "brake".

...and actually, if I was going to do that, which I still may, it may NOT be necessary to extend the TT guard. It may just be necessary to get it braced back to the frame, somewhere, somehow...

CADman_KS

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How about the square or round Engineguard.jpgtube brace running from forward frame to rear lower frame right across the top of the leading edge of the existing wing and attached to it at several points?

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i'm curious, what was damaged that costs $400 to fix on a drz ?

the skid plate is fine. i usually take mine off 2-3 times a year and beat it back into it's proper shape. i also drilled about 15 one inch holes in it to help air flow.

keep in mind, the more wind you deflect from the engine, and gunk you allow to insulate it (mud,muck,leaves) the hotter it will run.

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i'm curious, what was damaged that costs $400 to fix on a drz ?

...

These are the parts that I need to replace:

Side cover $181.00

Side cover gasket $14.36

Water pump assy $130.36

water pump o-ring $9.97

Water pump housing $70.46

Total: $406.15

I actually busted a part of the water pump that you can't buy (the part below in red), unless you buy the whole assembly, but from reading here, that sounds like the way to go anyway:

Untitled.png

Now, I have found some places that I can get all these parts cheaper, but the cheapest that I have found them is somewhere around $350. That's south of $400, but it's still close enough.

CADman_KS

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Well, bummer...

To all of the nay-sayers out there that told me it wouldn't work, you were right. CAD data more or less proves that out, as near as I could tell.

However, my idea DID improve on the cover, it just didn't improve it enough to make the change worthwhile. The CAD model's indicate that the after adding the flange, the area that impacted the water pump, given the same loading conditions, would move .08 less than without the flange. That's a gain, but, it's not the gain that I was hoping for. One of the things that I was planning on, that didn't happen, was being able to put more of an angle on the actual top flange. Because of all of the stuff that's behind there, I'm more or less limited to only about a 30degree flange. While that helps, it doesn't help as much as a 60 or 90 degree flange, which would be ideal.

As a side note, the models indicate that it should take somewhere around 600lbs of force pushing on the top of the guard to move the guard the distance that it went to break my water pump. (these are all numbers based on sight alone, as I can't really measure them until I have the new pieces) HOWEVER, that number does NOT include the extra force that would have been required to break the water pump housing, the water pump base, and the case. Those items definitely brought some strength to the party before they let go. It wouldn't surprise me if the force that I hit the rock with is in the 1000 lb range. I HIT THIS ROCK HARD! I knew as soon as I heard the water coming out, that that it was 100% fatal. I hit the rock so hard, that it actually moved the bike some to the left laterally. I don't know how much, but I could feel it move underneath me. At the end of the day, I'm probably pretty lucky that I didn't tear up more crap than I did!!!

Oh well, at least I didn't spend a lot of time modifying the guard, only to find out later on that I did myself no good!!!

CADman_KS

drzwaterpumpguard004_zpsbfe3a4ca.jpg Edited by rider428

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These are the parts that I need to replace:

Side cover $181.00

Side cover gasket $14.36

Water pump assy $130.36

water pump o-ring $9.97

Water pump housing $70.46

Total: $406.15

I actually busted a part of the water pump that you can't buy (the part below in red), unless you buy the whole assembly, but from reading here, that sounds like the way to go anyway:

Untitled.png

Now, I have found some places that I can get all these parts cheaper, but the cheapest that I have found them is somewhere around $350. That's south of $400, but it's still close enough.

CADman_KS

FYI, look up KLX400SR parts (same as DRZ) and usually much cheaper... go figure.

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why I use this setup.

We weren't in THAT bad of crap when mine happened, BUT we were in that kind of crap earlier in the week. When we were in it, I was glad at the time that we were going DOWN and not up. It went on for several miles.

I wish that I had had my camera with me the day that the damage occured, but that partiuclar day, I didn't bring it with me. I had it with me all of the other days, just not that day.

The actual place where the infraction occured, was not all that, and was rideable, provided you stayed on the trail. Things went south for me when I got bumped off the trail. Even off the trail, it wasn't all that bad, until I met those two rocks that I couldn't negotiate! The rock on the right side won the battle!

CADman_KS

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FYI, look up KLX400SR parts (same as DRZ) and usually much cheaper... go figure.

I looked up the KLX parts, and they are cheaper than the DRZ parts.

At this point, I'm trying to source some used parts to get it all back together. If that doesn't pan out, and I have to order all new parts, I bet that I can order the KLX parts AND the used parts for what Suzuki parts cost me. At least my total bill would be the same in the end.

We'll see how the used stuff goes.

Thanks for the input!!!

CADman_KS

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How about the square or round Engineguard.jpgtube brace running from forward frame to rear lower frame right across the top of the leading edge of the existing wing and attached to it at several points?

While that would help, I suspect that's probably going to offer marginal at best protection. Probably about the same results as my original idea of putting the extra flange on there. What really needs to happen is that there needs to be a brace from the top of the guard straight back to "something" so that the top can't move. The only thing that's straight back from the guard is the engine. I don't think that I want to hook onto anything there, as the end results would be the same.

CADman_KS

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