WR 450 F for enduro riding?

[RovingRaven]

Im looking at getting a WR 450 F, and I was wondering, is it a good bike for enduro riding?

[FORMA MOTO]

Define 'Enduro' as you understand it....

[kawi380]

I have found my wr is good for just about everything that I have pointed it at.  Now we may need to talk about my definition of 'good'.

[080]

Enduro, yes that's what the bike was built for. Extreme endure, maybe not so much. Like Krannie said, whats your definition of enduro?

[RovingRaven]

Enduro as in technical, over rocks, hill climbs, river beds, anything to do with offroad riding.

Are there any problems with the bike I should watch out for?

[D-rek07]

I've found it great for anything I've come across. It doesn't putt as well as the older style engine but that is what you have to deal with with these newer style bikes. 

[080]

Enduro as in technical, over rocks, hill climbs, river beds, anything to do with offroad riding.

Are there any problems with the bike I should watch out for?

 

Its on par with the other manufactures bikes in that class. Probably has a better reputation on the reliability end.

[vlxjim]

The new WR450 or KTM 450 are both great offroad bikes. You can read all the reviews and shootouts. But if your not riding a few times a week your probably not going to tell the difference. What you buy is what you will setup and be use to. And that is the best bike for most. That said for me the new 2012-13 WR450 is what I was waiting for. An off road / mx'er with ALUM. frame, elec. start, and fuel injection with a dream suspension.

Edited August 27, 2013 by vlxjim

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

I'm doing pretty extreme woods riding with my 2012 WR450F and loving it.  However, I lopped 15 pounds off of it.

 

I'm riding with guys (vets) on purpose built machines, ie a YZ250F with a big bore/stroke kit (310cc), a WR gearbox and custom suspension.   That bike is better than mine, but mine is closing the gap every week.  That bike cost over $15K to build too, $5K for the engine alone.  I paid $5300 for my bike.

 

My bike is at 245 pounds dry right now and I haven't touch the exhaust nor a few other things.   I'm hoping to get it down to 239 pounds dry before I add rad guards/braces and hand guards.  A stock WR450F is 260 pounds dry.  I rode my bike stock and did not care for it much.  Way too heavy/top heavy.

 

I also regeared it with a 12 tooth countershaft sprocket.   That made a huge difference in the tight stuff and on tight climbs.   I also cut 3/4" off of each end of the handle bars.  That tells you how tight the trees are where we ride.

 

The 450F engine is really good and it will only be better once my GYTR tuner arrives.   The power and torque get me out of a lot of situations that have the riders on the smaller bikes abusing their clutch or relying on (overheating) their recluse.  I'd say a 450F with 12 tooth gearing is the equivalent to a smaller bike with a recluse in tight conditions and way better once the terrain opens up.   However, the 12 tooth sprocket limits top end to about 68MPH.  Ironically, the WR250F has slightly wider transmission than the 450F.

 

I don't put any value on the WR450F electric start.   For starters, it barely starts the bike.  Usually you have to find neutral for it to work.    The 450F kicks excellent.   First kick every time if you do it right, even after being stalled and the radiator boiling over into the catch can.  I can kick it started in gear faster than I can find neutral in a difficult situation, especially when I am dog tired.

 

The fuel injection is excellent.   I've never seen a bike run so clean all the time, every where.   Nor start so well.

 

The WR450F has decent suspension for woods riding.   My friend with the modded YZ250F put an ohlin shock in his bike and spent some pretty big $$$ getting the forks super plush.   He normally hates the suspension on most bikes for woods riding, but likes the WR450F, especially as a starting point.   The stock springs are soft for our weights, 220 pounds or so.  I'll be changing them out.    

 

BTW, his top of the line recluse clutch needs rebuilding every second ride trying to hold the 310.  My WR450F outdrags his 310 easily and the powerband is much better though his 310 will rev higher.

[FORMA MOTO]

If you like to steer the bike with the rear wheel, the WR's are fantastic for that.

If you like to ride extremely steep terrain, the KTM's are noticeably lighter, and therefore easier to ride, but you can't really steer them with rear wheel power, so you use a lot of brakes.

 

WR's are extremely reliable. If you do any riding over 35 mph in rough terrain, you'll have to re-valve the suspension.

[the_smoo]

low speed technical over a long period, there are definitely lighter more capable bikes. By technical I mean you pick the bike up every 5-10 mins. Faster flowing trails, the WR - no problemo. 

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

low speed technical over a long period, there are definitely lighter more capable bikes. By technical I mean you pick the bike up every 5-10 mins. Faster flowing trails, the WR - no problemo. 

 

Drop 20+ pounds off a WR450F and its a completely different bike.   The engine makes some of the low speed technical stuff very easy.   A lot of the lighter bikes have inferior engines.

 

The best low speed technical bike I've seen is my friends big bore YZ250F with a recluse clutch.   

 

Another bike I ride with is a 2010 YZ125 punched and stroked out to 160 cc.  You'd think it would be a great technical bike given its light weight, but its twitchy and nervous as soon as the going gets fast.   And you are always on the clutch.

 

My WR450F weighs 245 dry.   I expect to get it down to 235 dry.     The YZ250F has the same frame and geometry and weighs 225 dry.  The YZ125 weighs about 215 dry.   I'd glady pay a 10 pound weight penalty to have the 450 engine versus the 250 (310) or the 125 (160).  

[080]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't put any value on the WR450F electric start.   For starters, it barely starts the bike.  Usually you have to find neutral for it to work.    The 450F kicks excellent.   First kick every time if you do it right, even after being stalled and the radiator boiling over into the catch can.  I can kick it started in gear faster than I can find neutral in a difficult situation, especially when I am dog tired.

 

.BTW, his top of the line recluse clutch needs rebuilding every second ride trying to hold the 310.  My WR450F outdrags his 310 easily and the powerband is much better though his 310 will rev higher.

 

I haven't had the problem with the starting some have had. It was a little stubborn every once and a while when I first got it but once I got the tuner it has never failed to start. I put the Dr. D pipe back on and haven't had any issue's even when in gear and I've maybe used the kicker 5 times to date. As far as the auto clutch goes, your friend doesn't have it adjusted correctly. There is no way it needs attention after 2 rides unless he is abusing it by riding around two high a gear for to long or something.

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

I haven't had the problem with the starting some have had. It was a little stubborn every once and a while when I first got it but once I got the tuner it has never failed to start. I put the Dr. D pipe back on and haven't had any issue's even when in gear and I've maybe used the kicker 5 times to date. As far as the auto clutch goes, your friend doesn't have it adjusted correctly. There is no way it needs attention after 2 rides unless he is abusing it by riding around two high a gear for to long or something.

 

Not many share your experience with the electric starter.   Even if they did, the WR450F kicks so nicely there is no way I'd have the 10 pound weight penalty for the convenience of it.

 

His 310 makes a lot of torque.   He has worked with the Rekluse service department trying to solve the issue, but it boils down to a clutch that is too light for the power and torque his engine now makes.  He is a good rider, an ex racer.   He isn't riding in too high a gear.

 

I wish that Yamaha sold a WR450R(F).  Same bike 25 pounds lighter, no starter, etc.   I guess they leave that build to the owners.   At least the basics are all there.

[080]

Not many share your experience with the electric starter.   Even if they did, the WR450F kicks so nicely there is no way I'd have the 10 pound weight penalty for the convenience of it.

 

His 310 makes a lot of torque.   He has worked with the Rekluse service department trying to solve the issue, but it boils down to a clutch that is too light for the power and torque his engine now makes.  He is a good rider, an ex racer.   He isn't riding in too high a gear.

 

I wish that Yamaha sold a WR450R(F).  Same bike 25 pounds lighter, no starter, etc.   I guess they leave that build to the owners.   At least the basics are all there.

Different strokes/different folks I guess. I've been in to many situations over the years where kicking it over wasn't an option and I get tired of doglegging it down to a spot just to get my foot on the kicker. Plus, I don't do any of the A trails I used to so the extra weight is a non issue to me and to be honest I noticed a lot more of a weight difference between my last 300 2strk to the Yz450 than between the Yz450 and the Wr450. I've seen a few complaints on here about the starting but from what I have read the problem seems to go away with different mapping and a pipe. Also for every one problem you read about on a certain bike there are probably many more that don't share the same issue at all. I've had my bike not start a few times on the 1st push but never not start at all after the 2nd. I wonder if its an altitude thing?

If your friends bike is putting out that much more torque than what the clutch is built for I could see the failure but is the failure on the side of the clutch or on the Rekluse?

[FORMA MOTO]

  A lot of the lighter bikes have inferior engines.

 

 

 

AMEN

 

 ( ....and suspension....)

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

http://www.trailrideraustralia.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=359

[vlxjim]

My E starter rocks with ECU, Map and FMF Q4 but stock it would barely start. But that said the bike was design to have the starter removed. So you can have It ether way. I like the starter and have not ever removed it, but there are a few that have and found that the starter, clutch/gear and battery come in less than 8 lbs. Not the 10 lbs that yamaha clams. Let face it, its all how you like it and we all have seen the videos of guys that just rip on a close to stock WR.

[aussieklx]

Drop 20+ pounds off a WR450F and its a completely different bike.   The engine makes some of the low speed technical stuff very easy.   A lot of the lighter bikes have inferior engines.

 

The best low speed technical bike I've seen is my friends big bore YZ250F with a recluse clutch.   

 

Another bike I ride with is a 2010 YZ125 punched and stroked out to 160 cc.  You'd think it would be a great technical bike given its light weight, but its twitchy and nervous as soon as the going gets fast.   And you are always on the clutch.

 

My WR450F weighs 245 dry.   I expect to get it down to 235 dry.     The YZ250F has the same frame and geometry and weighs 225 dry.  The YZ125 weighs about 215 dry.   I'd glady pay a 10 pound weight penalty to have the 450 engine versus the 250 (310) or the 125 (160).

Care to list your weight reduction mods?

Cheers

[MidlifeCrisisGuy]

Care to list your weight reduction mods?

Cheers

 

From my bike prep notes.

 

Done: Starter: 1.63 lbs

Done: Starter drive gears: 1.05 lbs

Done: Tank mount bracket: 0.39 pounds with the 4 bolts <-- needs reinforcement though

Done: Starter switch and harness to right side rad mount 0.11 lbs

Done: Boil off vent hose, tank to under bike, 0.15 lbs

Done: Head light assembly 1.45 pounds

Done: Reflectors: 0.72 pounds

Done: Trip computer assembly: 0.88 pounds

Done: Battery: 4.60 pounds

Done: Snorkel: 0.46 pounds, with screws

Done: Starter relay, cables, isolator rubber, other relays, etc.  0.88 pounds.

Done: Boil off bottle and connector hose: 0.52 pounds

Done: Battery tray, boil off bottle fender plastic, ECM rubber isolator: 0.44 pounds

Done: Breather reduction of starter port.  0.13 pounds gross, about 0.12 pounds net

Done: Throttle body harness holder.  0.06 pounds

Total 13.44 pounds.   260 - 13.44 = 246.56 pounds, dry.

 

In progress.

- speedo drive 0.55 pounds, 0.45 pounds net

- radiator louvres, 0.3 pounds each, 0.6 pounds total

- regulator mount, 0.13 pounds

- kick stand 1.16 pounds, plus lighter left footpeg mount

Total: 2.36 pounds

246.56 - 2.36 = 244.20 pounds

Next up:

- starter clutch and gear, hoping for 1.5 pounds, lighter flywheel as well

- muffler, hoping for 2.5 pounds

- Titanium shock spring, hoping for 1.25 pounds

- Aluminum rear sprocket, nearly 2 pounds

- newer YZ swingarm 2.5 pounds

Total = 9.75 pounds.

244.20 - 9.75 = 234.45

 

This is without handguards, rad guards and rad braces.

 

There are other weight reduction possibilities too.    I bet one could get a WR450 down to 230 pounds dry, a loss of 30 pounds.

 

By dry, I mean with an empty fuel tank but otherwise ready to ride.

 

I'll write this up in detail in a thread if there is interest.  I took pictures of everything as I did it.

Edited August 29, 2013 by MidlifeCrisisGuy