You bought a BETA: did you come from a MX bike? Do you ride aggressively?

Looking at the BETA as an alternative to the KTM bikes (which I tried and hated).

I'm very familiar with what every one out there has to offer in the way of non-track bikes.

I found the KTM's to handle very poorly under power and under hard braking, and the ergos are not right for tall guys.

 

What I don't want is another 'whimpy' bike like the EXC's and XC-W KTMs, that were way under suspended and under powered (torque at low rpms).

I put a great deal of time and effort into the 500 XC-W and 450 SX-F to try and get them to work but was unsuccessful. 

 

I am used to  CRF450X and WR450F with extensive motor,suspension, and ergo work, but am looking to loose 30+ lbs.

I have a single-track ready CRF450R, but the lack of e-start makes it useless for the casual exploratory single track riding that has us stopping dozens a time per day.

 

Anyone here come from a 'real' race level or mx level bike, that still rides aggressively, and has found the Beta suspension and motor to be more than just acceptable?

All of the terrain I ride is totally burnt out, whooped out, rocked out, and 50% vertical, so really good handling is tops on the list.

 

I hear exceptional praise for the handling, and the cockpit, but not much about the power delivery or the suspension.

 

I don't want to go through another expensive failed experiment ( or two ) with another bike just to get it to fit me (260lbs 6'4")/

 

TIA

Edited by Krannie

So you are 56 years old 260lbs  and you find 450s, 500 4 strokes and big bore 2 strokes under powered?

You must be some kind of pro rider!

Sorry I don't think the world makes bikes for super humans yet  :crazy:

Edited by hammer41

So you are 56 years old 260lbs  and you find 450s, 500 4 strokes and big bore 2 strokes under powered?

You must be some kind of pro rider!

Sorry I don't think the world makes bikes for super humans yet  :crazy:

 

If you can't be constructive, please don't participate.

 

The  KTM four strokes make there power very high in the rpm range, and the torque curve falls off very quickly.

To climb a steep hill you must either slow way down, or scream the motors. Since KTM's don't like rear wheel focus, then it's nearly impossible to hold a clean line when screaming the motor.

Watch any video of a KTM exiting a  non-railed corner under full power and you will see what I mean.

 

It has nothing to do with how much power quantity, but power quality. 

 

 

I'm trying to find out what KIND of power and handling the Beta's have. 

Edited by Krannie

No experience here but everything I have read  indicates the Beta's are just a little heavy. I know of one Beta 450RR here in Texas that is on its third owner in two years. And of two dealers statewide, only one remains. If the two strokes don't sell, he will probably drop the line also. For whatever reason the brand just doesn't sell here.

Edited by YHGEORGE

I am no pro rider but I am a strong intermediate rider who rides a lot in the BC Bush, we have the best trails in the world. I have had the 350 four stroke and personally I found it to be very heavy!. i am 5-6 145 pounds. I have ridden the 250RR 2 stroke and 300RR 2 stroke from Beta and have a 250RR and love it, light and I also love the ktm bikes but find the beta 250 power delivery to be better than the ktm, easier- better down low and mid where the majority of people are in the bush. I agree the ktm screams up high but it  is not where the majority live while riding...the beta beats the ktm in two areas, motor and handling/steering... that being said i would not try to talk a guy off a ktm to a beta but a lot of riders dont want to buy a ktm or dont like them.

 

It sounds like you are a rock star rider so the really the best and only way your going to find out is to demo one or find a guy with one and pay him to try it, then you will know if it works for you or not. There really is no other way as what your gonna get from all of us other riders is our personal preference which may or may not, more likely not match yours..good luck and hope you get to try one..cheers dave

 the lack of e-start makes it useless for the casual exploratory single track riding that has us stopping dozens a time per day.

I'm confused here. The 500xc-w doesn't have enough power for casual exploratory single track riding? If the KTM doesn't the Beta won't either. Not only that I don't find the Sachs suspension nearly as good as the WP stuff although you can get the Beta with Zoke 48's on the front, a bit better than the WP OC stuff.

 

While I don't weigh as much as you the 500 pulls any hill I could possibly climb even at 13k in Colorado without screaming it. A few minor map tweaks really opened it up. :banana:

Krannie, your opinion on orange bikes is very similar tomine.

 

Regarding Beta I think that a RR498 would suit you the best. Linear pull from zero rpm up to more than 10K (max power is at around 9000 rpm but there is enough overrev) without jerky throttle response (the EXC500 I rode was like that - certainly not the bike I would like to ride on very dry or very wet conditions). You twist it goes, you twist harder it goes more. not mx-like explosive response (unless you free up the exhaust. 498s are about 50 RWHP on a dynojet as they come but as i said, the whole throttle-engine interface makes them really easy to use.

 

Ergo-wise, since I am close to you in dimensions (6'2'', 235 lbs) I believe that you can leave with the std ergos but you'll welcome a slightly taller seat.

On my 2012 RR498 I used a taller Boano-sourced foam (actually I think it was GUTS) which as delivered was 3 cm taller and that was too much (like riding form the 2ns floor). After few hours and a rasp I had it where I wanted it which was about 1 cm higher.

On my 2013 RR300 Racing I am still using the std seat but due to the new gas tanks and seat , the whole ergos are more racing.

 

Suspension wise the Marz 48 PFP forks of the racing versions are on a different league however for 2014 the whole setup is firmer but I haven't ridden one yet (just sampled them stationary and they did felt firmer).

Edited by dirtbird

If you can't be constructive, please don't participate.

.

Really, look at your original post and tell me it doesn't say I won't be happy with anything.

I dead serious I don't think anyone makes a bike you will be happy on.

No experience here but everything I have read  indicates the Beta's are just a little heavy. I know of one Beta 450RR here in Texas that is on its third owner in two years. And of two dealers statewide, only one remains. If the two strokes don't sell, he will probably drop the line also. For whatever reason the brand just doesn't sell here.

 

My goodness George!!!  Relax and get another cup of coffee and put on your optimism glasses. My Dealer is selling a flock of Betas!! There's a buzz around here!!

 

Don't be a Glum!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqALm_rmM1g

Looking at the BETA as an alternative to the KTM bikes (which I tried and hated).

I'm very familiar with what every one out there has to offer in the way of non-track bikes.

I found the KTM's to handle very poorly under power and under hard braking, and the ergos are not right for tall guys.

 

What I don't want is another 'whimpy' bike like the EXC's and XC-W KTMs, that were way under suspended and under powered (torque at low rpms).

I put a great deal of time and effort into the 500 XC-W and 450 SX-F to try and get them to work but was unsuccessful. 

 

I am used to  CRF450X and WR450F with extensive motor,suspension, and ergo work, but am looking to loose 30+ lbs.

I have a single-track ready CRF450R, but the lack of e-start makes it useless for the casual exploratory single track riding that has us stopping dozens a time per day.

 

Anyone here come from a 'real' race level or mx level bike, that still rides aggressively, and has found the Beta suspension and motor to be more than just acceptable?

All of the terrain I ride is totally burnt out, whooped out, rocked out, and 50% vertical, so really good handling is tops on the list.

 

I hear exceptional praise for the handling, and the cockpit, but not much about the power delivery or the suspension.

 

I don't want to go through another expensive failed experiment ( or two ) with another bike just to get it to fit me (260lbs 6'4")/

 

TIA

 

From your descriptions it sounds like a demo ride is especially needed for you... If I'd guess I'd say 498 ..but it's still a guess. like dirtbird says....... but you sound quite exacting in your particular needs.. The demo ride seems a better guess and everyone rides different and on different terrain. ..and it's especially since you've had your bad match with ktm that just doesn't agree with you. I think I'd be careful too. Even though I'd love a brand new 498rr and a 300rr.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

My goodness George!!!  Relax and get another cup of coffee and put on your optimism glasses. My Dealer is selling a flock of Betas!! There's a buzz around here!!

 

Don't be a Glum!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqALm_rmM1g

Quite the overreaction! I appreciate your suggestion and in turn rec some Prozac or Xanax for yourself. ;)

If you can't be constructive, please don't participate.

 

The  KTM four strokes make there power very high in the rpm range, and the torque curve falls off very quickly.

To climb a steep hill you must either slow way down, or scream the motors. Since KTM's don't like rear wheel focus, then it's nearly impossible to hold a clean line when screaming the motor.

Watch any video of a KTM exiting a  non-railed corner under full power and you will see what I mean.

 

It has nothing to do with how much power quantity, but power quality. 

 

 

I'm trying to find out what KIND of power and handling the Beta's have. 

 

Well I come from a little bit of racing background but only at novice level. I'm in agreement that you need to demo one of these. October 5th is demo days out at Lucerne. Dave will have a few you can try out. Of course you are always welcome to try mine as well when I have a good day we can meet somewhere. I can strip it down to stock and remove all the ball sacks hanging off it.

 

If you need to know how good these are at race level, you need only to ask Dave. Who races these beasts. FWIW, the 498 motor is more torque and power than any dirt bike I have ever swung a leg over. And that includes my uncorked XR650R. As far as weight, these bikes weigh no more or within a few lbs  than any KTM out there.

 

Funny thing is my bike fully bagged up feels fine on any nasty trail. The only time it rears it's ugly weight is when I drop it and have to pick it up. The words versatile, reliable, solid handling, light feeling and quick turning on the trail come to mind.

HOLY SHIT! 6'4"!! Super Size me!! LOL :jawdrop:  :eek:  

 

I'm only 5'9" (shrunk 2" over the years due to broken back and legs). Because of an old wrist injury I have bar risers on mine. It might just fit you. It's a trip watching tall guys ride full size bikes. It kind of looks like they are riding a "mini"……

I'm confused here. The 500xc-w doesn't have enough power for casual exploratory single track riding? If the KTM doesn't the Beta won't either. Not only that I don't find the Sachs suspension nearly as good as the WP stuff although you can get the Beta with Zoke 48's on the front, a bit better than the WP OC stuff.

 

While I don't weigh as much as you the 500 pulls any hill I could possibly climb even at 13k in Colorado without screaming it. A few minor map tweaks really opened it up. :banana:

 

The 500 had tons of torque at 2000 rpm, then no more torque till 8500 rpm. It's like riding a 125 two stroke with a huge flywheel. 

But thats' not why I dumped it. The FI and the suspension were un-fixable in my experience.

Well I come from a little bit of racing background but only at novice level. I'm in agreement that you need to demo one of these. October 5th is demo days out at Lucerne. Dave will have a few you can try out. Of course you are always welcome to try mine as well when I have a good day we can meet somewhere. I can strip it down to stock and remove all the ball sacks hanging off it.

 

If you need to know how good these are at race level, you need only to ask Dave. Who races these beasts. FWIW, the 498 motor is more torque and power than any dirt bike I have ever swung a leg over. And that includes my uncorked XR650R. As far as weight, these bikes weigh no more or within a few lbs  than any KTM out there.

 

Funny thing is my bike fully bagged up feels fine on any nasty trail. The only time it rears it's ugly weight is when I drop it and have to pick it up. The words versatile, reliable, solid handling, light feeling and quick turning on the trail come to mind.

Dave? As in  Simi Valley or Up-Tite?

 

Lucerne as in Lucerne Valley in the So Cal High Desert? Cooo-ul. 

 

So, you all might have misunder stood me. I'm not looking for the perfect bike. They don't exist.

However, if the bike has weird frame geometry  (KTM), flexy forks (WP OC), no linkage (KTM), or FI with a closed map required voiding the warranty to remidy it (KTM) then it's not for me.

 

Plus, when you are 6'4", carrying a 35lb back pack, standing up changes the way the bike handles, radically.....so average handling is not an option!!

I crashed my KTM's once or twice every ride trying to get them to handle both standing up or sitting down. Never was able to do both. 

My CRFX handles fantastically up or down, but, it weights 280lbs full of fuel, and is very top heavy. Makes rocky fast down hills a real learning experience....I walk that bike down hills that I can jump down no problem on my WR....but the WR stops handling at about 45 mph. The X stops handling at about 110mph....and is a real handfull at 0-15mph.... even when it's geared for it.

 

I'm trying to find out if I can get a bike from Beta that will handle as good as a YZ/WR/CRF/CRFX (steer with the rear wheel, steer in slide, steer with the brakes on kind of handling) but has more modern weight distribution (low) and e start and conventional 'older school' power delivery (torque curve follow hp curve to at least 50% point of power band). 

If yes, then 'SOLD'.

If no, then, I keep looking/ modifying my MX bikes and WR bikes.

Edited by Krannie

The 500 had tons of torque at 2000 rpm, then no more torque till 8500 rpm. It's like riding a 125 two stroke with a huge flywheel. 

But thats' not why I dumped it. The FI and the suspension were un-fixable in my experience.

That was David Knights complaint.

Edited by YHGEORGE
without jerky throttle response (the EXC500 I rode was like that - certainly not the bike I would like to ride on very dry or very wet conditions). You twist it goes, you twist harder it goes more. not mx-like explosive response (unless you free up the exhaust.

The EU map fixed this. The stock exc map was way too responsive at tip off. Made it very difficult on technical trails.

The FI and the suspension were un-fixable in my experience.

FI is fixable, the forks not so much so.

 

I'm trying to find out if I can get a bike from Beta that will handle as good as a YZ/WR/CRF/CRFX (steer with the rear wheel, steer in slide, steer with the brakes on kind of handling) but has more modern weight distribution (low) and e start and conventional 'older school' power delivery (torque curve follow hp curve to at least 50% point of power band). 

If yes, then 'SOLD'.

If no, then, I keep looking/ modifying my MX bikes and WR bikes.

 

This is pretty much a good description of Beta to me.. and I ride with a 40lb back pack too.. It sucks until you need what's inside. Even when you watch some of the Beta vids you can see the torquey linear kinds of power.. to me it's perfect for offroad...although I think you riding is the only real way to know how it works. I come from varied racing MX, TT, Flat track etc from the 70's..80's..... but I haven't raced MX in many years.. play on the track a little but not into the airtime that the current tracks are set up for.. It's more supercross than natural MX....not for me .. Now I'm just a hare scramble, Hawaii type hare n hound guy. ..  

..some examples..? Maybe you can get a little of the feel..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlIVDqFrlAw

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyptTeJHS3I

 

..Here's one..more of a tentative rider here.. but I don't know what the hell everyone is waiting around for on the hill climbs.. gotta do it so go!!! ..still you might notice some of the mellow motor manners.. but not as much of what happens when you twist the throttle..I guess these guys are a bit afraid of the hills so they look at it more.. :bonk:  ...Maybe I'm missing how hairy looking the hills look in real life?  Easy for me to talk...Idk.. anyway I'd love to race this.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y86EATFAETE

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

Krannie, I was talking about Dave at Get Dirty Dirt Bikes….

 

Here is his website. Check out his blog as well. He is a full service shop. 

 

http://getdirtydirtbikes.com

Quite the overreaction! I appreciate your suggestion and in turn rec some Prozac or Xanax for yourself. ;)

 

:ride: ...just sayin  ..ya just posted  ALL negative from winner of bike of the year and rated number one for enduro bikes... I'd be guessing those 2 Beta dealers aren't doing something right if they aren't moving bikes that are on magazine covers having them as number 1.. My dealer has the Bike of the year issue on counter for everyone to see .  Do those Beta dealers sell other brands?

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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