Worn out at 30,000 km ( 18,000 MILES ) ?

I happen to come across the thread  " Recently aquired 95 xr650l " where the owners pig had 30,000 km (18,000 miles) on it. I found the following response from Brianhare quite interesting.."Measure the cylinder. But i can tell you at that milege it will be worn in enough of a taper/ out of round to warrant an oversize and rebore"...Now, this is in no way to discredit or put Brian on the spot in any way or to say he is false.I can tell from what i have read that he is quite knowlegable on the xr650l. I would like more information on this by himself and/ or others. I am confused. I was under the impression from all the articles and whom i have talked to that the xr650l engine is extremely durable and would last longer than this. I was under the impression that these engines would remain strong for double that milege? I just hit 20,000 km ( 12,000 miles ). I run mine hard but use Amsoil and change the oil often enough.  Am i going to need rings or a piston in another 10,000 km ( 6,000 miles ). Should i start saving for that now??...Thanks

Edited by Thumper3

Nomatter the make model or year every bike wares out some point in it's lifetime. I would recommend to always have a little extra cash saved up for that situation so that way whenever it happens it can be as easy as ABC to get fixed. Now saying your bike will only last 18,000 miles... Is almost impossible to accurately predict that, it could last longer or shorter than that. Just have some spending money saved

most big singles will have some wear issues by 20,000ks, if it has had constant maintinance during its lifetime the wear will more than likely be confined to the valves and possibly rings, by 40,000ks the piston, rings, and the bigend bearing will probably be getting significant wear, along with valves/ seats, some people can totally stuff a new mtr in less than 10,000ks, some people will get 100,000ks, how the bike is run in, warmed up before full load is applied, if its lugged at low revs, thrashed all affect how long a mtr will last between overhauls

most big singles will have some wear issues by 20,000ks, if it has had constant maintinance during its lifetime the wear will more than likely be confined to the valves and possibly rings, by 40,000ks the piston, rings, and the bigend bearing will probably be getting significant wear, along with valves/ seats, some people can totally stuff a new mtr in less than 10,000ks, some people will get 100,000ks, how the bike is run in, warmed up before full load is applied, if its lugged at low revs, thrashed all affect how long a mtr will last between overhauls

If i got 40,000 kms (24,000 miles) on it without opening the engine i would be happy. Even then i would stay away from a high compression piston and probally just get a new sleve that is the stock size from "XR'S only" and run the stock piston and rings again. I am running a high compression ratio in my kawasaki zx12r and it can be a pain in the ass sometimes. It needs really clean fuel or its not happy. I wouldnt want that in the xr also.

Some people can run these bikes 50k and not have an issue......it depends on how they ride,how they service it and how often...

 

But this is not a car..........a single cylinder engine is not as long lived,,it wears faster as it`s stressed more than multi cylinder engines...

 

Every XRL,XR600R engine i`ve been into has had some wear at the 20+ mark.........enough that putting new OE standard rings in it had an end gap that was over Honda limits........that means the cylinder was worn..and upon measuring trhe cylinder it was found that it was worn enough to warrant a rebore to get full life from the new parts..

 

An engine can run tons of miles and be well beyond wear limits and still run fine and not burn oil excessively.......but.......if you start to burn oil or have to remove the cylinder then do it right,,,,,,,if it`s at or near the wear limits then rebore it,,so you get max life out of the new work...

 

Some people have gotten 50k out of these engines and never had an issue,still ran fine,,but was using oil and was starting to lose power..

 

Basically,if it runs,doesn`t burn oil badly,run it........

 

B

If i got 40,000 kms (24,000 miles) on it without opening the engine i would be happy. Even then i would stay away from a high compression piston and probally just get a new sleve that is the stock size from "XR'S only" and run the stock piston and rings again. I am running a high compression ratio in my kawasaki zx12r and it can be a pain in the ass sometimes. It needs really clean fuel or its not happy. I wouldnt want that in the xr also.

 

You can get OE pistons/rings in oversizes,so you only need to rebore to the next size and you are good to go.sleeve replacement is only necessary after the second oversize has worn out.......

 

B

You can get OE pistons/rings in oversizes,so you only need to rebore to the next size and you are good to go.sleeve replacement is only necessary after the second oversize has worn out.......

 

B

I was thinking about a sleeve from xr's only that you can get in the stock size or overbore for about $100. Seems like a good price to pay for having the cylinder all ready to go. No honing or boring required. Its already done for you and done right?

Some people can run these bikes 50k and not have an issue......it depends on how they ride,how they service it and how often...

 

But this is not a car..........a single cylinder engine is not as long lived,,it wears faster as it`s stressed more than multi cylinder engines...

 

Every XRL,XR600R engine i`ve been into has had some wear at the 20+ mark.........enough that putting new OE standard rings in it had an end gap that was over Honda limits........that means the cylinder was worn..and upon measuring trhe cylinder it was found that it was worn enough to warrant a rebore to get full life from the new parts..

 

An engine can run tons of miles and be well beyond wear limits and still run fine and not burn oil excessively.......but.......if you start to burn oil or have to remove the cylinder then do it right,,,,,,,if it`s at or near the wear limits then rebore it,,so you get max life out of the new work...

 

Some people have gotten 50k out of these engines and never had an issue,still ran fine,,but was using oil and was starting to lose power..

 

Basically,if it runs,doesn`t burn oil badly,run it........

 

B

Thats interesting what you are saying about at the 20,000 km mark. It is normal for a big air cooled single to burn off some oil on a hot day, true? I have seen on more than one ocassion this summer that after being driven hard off road in hot weather for say 300 km over a 2 day period having to add a 1/4 to 1/3 of a litre of synthetic and making good power. Would you consider this normal?

I was thinking about a sleeve from xr's only that you can get in the stock size or overbore for about $100. Seems like a good price to pay for having the cylinder all ready to go. No honing or boring required. Its already done for you and done right?

 

Ummmmmmmmmmm.....WRONG...........

 

A sleeve comes unfinished............it must be first installed in a cylinder........then bored or possibly just honed,,to fit the piston you provide.......a piston must be measured,,at the skirt,at a predetermined spot,usually 1/2 inch up from the bottom and 90 degrees from the pin........then the pistons manufacture provides the clearance to add to the skirts measurement,then the machinist hone/bores to that measurement..........

 

A liner/sleeve must be installed before this,and also decked to be flush with the cylinder...

 

Anyone saying a sleeve is ready to install ..no furrther work needed,,i`d stay away from...period..

 

B

Edited by brianhare

Thats interesting what you are saying about at the 20,000 km mark. It is normal for a big air cooled single to burn off some oil on a hot day, true? I have seen on more than one ocassion this summer that after being driven hard off road in hot weather for say 300 km over a 2 day period having to add a 1/4 to 1/3 of a litre of synthetic and making good power. Would you consider this normal?

 

High speeds,,,,,,,high rpm..........hot weather will see these use some oil.......

 

If you are adding a liter every oil change i`d say it was getting excessive.........but not necessarily an issue ..

 

Some engines will burn syn oil alot faster than dino oil too.........some people find switching to deisel oil slows oil consumption..

 

B

Ummmmmmmmmmm.....WRONG...........

 

A sleeve comes unfinished............it must be first installed in a cylinder........then bored or possibly just honed,,to fit the piston you provide.......a piston must be measured,,at the skirt,at a predetermined spot,usually 1/2 inch up from the bottom and 90 degrees from the pin........then the pistons manufacture provides the clearance to add to the skirts measurement,then the machinist hone/bores to that measurement..........

 

A liner/sleeve must be installed before this,and also decked to be flush with the cylinder...

 

Anyone saying a sleeve is ready to install ..no furrther work needed,,i`d stay away from...period..

 

B

Thats good to know. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

Oh,,,if i didn`t get my point across here,,,what i meant was a person can get more than 20k on these engines easily,,what i was referring to is that if you have to pull the engine apart for any reason,,,,,,at that mileage,,you need to look closely at the bore and ring specs and do the job right,,pulling a head off to lap the valves,,and then a year later it starts to burn oil because the rings are worn out isn`t very impressive.......do it right,do it once.. :devil:

 

 

B

Thats good to know. Thanks for the info. :thumbsup:

 

I had 12k kilometers on mine when i did a compression test,,it still ran good,but the valves were pitted and showed less than perfect on the compression test,,,so i pulled the head and had the seats ground and valves cut...the rings were still decent but i wanted more compression so i put in a JE piston......did it need to be rebuilt,no.....but the added compression made a little more power and i love rebuilding engines :thumbsup:

 

B

I had 12k kilometers on mine when i did a compression test,,it still ran good,but the valves were pitted and showed less than perfect on the compression test,,,so i pulled the head and had the seats ground and valves cut...the rings were still decent but i wanted more compression so i put in a JE piston......did it need to be rebuilt,no.....but the added compression made a little more power and i love rebuilding engines :thumbsup:

 

B

Thats good to know that you like rebuilding engines and that you are just " Around the corner ". I have learned a few things in this thread and also that it might be wise to take it a little easier on this pig. But thats NOT going to happen. Its in my nature to be hard on my stuff. As mentioned elsewhere i am amazed that i have not broke this thing yet. Its Tough! I will be running it again this winter in freezing temperatures to keep the bike fever under control. :ride:

So run the crud out of it,,,,,,,,it`s just money,,you may have to rebuild it more often than someone who rides like a granny,,but who cares as long as you are having fun......given the choice,i`m riding mine hard,fixing more often and enjoying it..1/2 the fun is fixing a bike and modifying it to make it different than everyone else........

 

Would you rather tell someone ,,yup i have 50k on it,all stock and i ride it easy.......

 

Or....i ride it like i stole it.....and enjoy it...

 

 

kinda like having a 68 Dodge Dart with a 383 and manual transmission.....and NOT burning the tires off it,,kinda pointless i think..

 

B

So run the crud out of it,,,,,,,,it`s just money,,you may have to rebuild it more often than someone who rides like a granny,,but who cares as long as you are having fun......given the choice,i`m riding mine hard,fixing more often and enjoying it..1/2 the fun is fixing a bike and modifying it to make it different than everyone else........

 

Would you rather tell someone ,,yup i have 50k on it,all stock and i ride it easy.......

 

Or....i ride it like i stole it.....and enjoy it...

 

 

kinda like having a 68 Dodge Dart with a 383 and manual transmission.....and NOT burning the tires off it,,kinda pointless i think..

 

B

Yeah, i hear ya. I didnt go through the hassle to lighten it up and re-gear it to drive it slow. Don't want it getting carboned up...lol

Here is a pic of my other ride running a 13.6 compression ratio.

2013-07-09 17.29.03.jpg

2013-07-09 17.28.43.jpg

Edited by Thumper3

Some engines will burn syn oil alot faster than dino oil too.........some people find switching to deisel oil slows oil consumption..

also point out that when burning syn oil it generally wont smoke,

there was a thread before about a 650R with a blown motor he'd just serviced it and topped it up with oil and went into a dakar style event and got half way through when it shat itself (was not a drop of oil in it all burnt and out the exhaust) it didnt smoke because it was synthetic oil so he was none the wiser had he been running non syn oil he'd have seen the blue smoke bellowing out the back (something to ponder)

does diesel oil smoke when it burns?

High speeds,,,,,,,high rpm..........hot weather will see these use some oil.......

 

If you are adding a liter every oil change i`d say it was getting excessive.........but not necessarily an issue ..

 

Some engines will burn syn oil alot faster than dino oil too.........some people find switching to deisel oil slows oil consumption..

 

B

Be careful of diesel oil. I switched and now I have a broken engine. Diesel runs hotter too. My bike would keep climbing past 260f which is where it stopped climbing with motorcycle oil. Also the thicker oil runs the bike hotter. Its damn funny that I had a perfectly running engine and once I switched to diesel now my engine is broken. Just sayin........

If you used Rotella 15w40 it is JASO MA  cerified ..meaning it passed all the tests for Japanese motorcycle oil..

 

I seriously doubt the deisel oil caused any failure ,,even if it was cheap oil.....i`d have to see proof....people have used deisel oil in 15w40 and in hot climates even used 20w50 with no oil related issues.......

 

From what i`ve read,,,,,,,,you don`t even know what the issue is with your engine...so you can`t even say what caused it,,period.......and if it stops making the noise after stopping the bike then it`s clutch or transmission related,crank bearings,cam bearings,,anything in the actual engine side of this motor would make the noise continually..the clutch,trans is where i`d look..

 

B

Edited by brianhare

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