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Any of you boys ever try outboard pre mix?

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Guys and gals, my apologies ladies:)

So recently I bought my first diesel truck. A 2002 dodge 2500 cummins 4x4. Badass truck. Well I'm adding twc-3 2 stroke outboard pre mix oil to the fuel when I fill up to keep the fuel system lubricated. I also run 2 stroke outboard pre mix in my snowmobile. It's auto injection so there's a big oil tank I just dump oil in(as u all know). I bought it from a dude used who always ran Johnson outboard pre mix. What's the deal with outboard pre mix? Is it just better all around? My thoughts are that since a boat engine is always under a load during operation it needs the highest quality oil out there. The outboard engineers more then likely developed a pre mix oil to suit the lubrication needs of an engine that's constantly under a load. That being said could there be any benefit to running outboard pre mix in our 2 stroke bikes? I currently run honda hp2

Edited by CRF450ish

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Back in the day on 85s I used some outboard oil that my dad swore by. Many bottom ends (one that melted a rod into the shape of a 6)later I changed oil and havent had a problem since. My theory is the oil isnt made to handle the higher temps of engine...think about boats have an unlimited amount of water to circulate through motor. Should have cooler running temps and motorcycle recirculating same coolant. Not worth the couple $ saved buying cheap oil when compared to cost of rebuild

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Dear OP, There ARE females who read this forum....

 

Yes, I think the problem with those OBM oils is the temp they are made for.  Yes, outboards are on a constant load BUT a lake or ocean is a great source of cool water to keep the temps down.

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Dear OP, There ARE females who read this forum....

Yes, I think the problem with those OBM oils is the temp they are made for. Yes, outboards are on a constant load BUT a lake or ocean is a great source of cool water to keep the temps down.

I do apologize for that. That was inconsiderate of me to only address the dudes here. I couldn't correct my title but I did edit my post.

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I do apologize for that. That was inconsiderate of me to only address the dudes here. I couldn't correct my title but I did edit my post.

I only mention it because I was chastised for that same thing in the past so I'm more careful.  But even females say to each other "Hey you guys..."

So basically, you can't win.

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As said, the TC-W3 spec applies to lower stressed engines. Sea-Doo specifically calls out API-TC oils for their PWC as they are a higher output engine that sees higher temps and requires more protection than standard TC-W3 provides. Now, some oils meet both specs.

 

Also, the new ratings to look for are ISO and JASO, followed by B, C, D, or FB, FC, FD, or EGC, EGD. "D" is the latest and greatest, very good protection, as well as a very tough smoke and exhaust carbon test (low carbon is easier on power valves).

 

Injector vs premix? Typically just a viscosity thing, injector oils must be thinner to be pumpable. This can mean compromised protection.

 

Now, it not only depends what you ride, but how you ride. I've tried a number of oils, and one of my best looking topend was with Pensoil Multi-use. But that is riding trails and racing harescrambles and enduros, not a lot of WOT high temperature things going on.  A C rider putting in the woods can get away with a poorer oil than an A-class MX guy, or someone that frolics in the dunes.

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I only mention it because I was chastised for that same thing in the past so I'm more careful. But even females say to each other "Hey you guys..."

So basically, you can't win.

Lol right right. Well yeah I just waned to see people's thoughts on outboard. Though i realize that they do have an unlimited source of cool water keeping them cool, I was more concerned with the lubrication under load principal

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As said, the TC-W3 spec applies to lower stressed engines. Sea-Doo specifically calls out API-TC oils for their PWC as they are a higher output engine that sees higher temps and requires more protection than standard TC-W3 provides. Now, some oils meet both specs.

Also, the new ratings to look for are ISO and JASO, followed by B, C, D, or FB, FC, FD, or EGC, EGD. "D" is the latest and greatest, very good protection, as well as a very tough smoke and exhaust carbon test (low carbon is easier on power valves).

Injector vs premix? Typically just a viscosity thing, injector oils must be thinner to be pumpable. This can mean compromised protection.

Now, it not only depends what you ride, but how you ride. I've tried a number of oils, and one of my best looking topend was with Pensoil Multi-use.But that is riding trails and racing harescrambles and enduros, not a lot of WOT high temperature things going on. A C rider putting in the woods can get away with a poorer oil than an A-class MX guy, or someone that frolics in the dunes.

Highly surprised you had good luck with Pennzoil!!! That stuff is the worst oil on the planet IMO. I used to work in the auto industry and I can tell you that Pennzoil created an enormous amount of residue and sludge in the internal crevices of engines. I just don't trust Pennzoil.

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The worst 2 stroke oil i have used  would be motomaster (canadian tire brand) It was absolute crap. I bought amsoil and it felt like there was a substantial hp boost, the motomaster was not synthetic like the amsoil is though. 

 

I gave a bunch of used motor oil to a guy who had an ad in my local classifieds. When he came to pick it all up a asked what he wanted it for and he says he mixes it with diesel fuel and runs it in his truck. Not sure if that is good or bad but he says it runs just fine. 

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The worst 2 stroke oil i have used would be motomaster (canadian tire brand) It was absolute crap. I bought amsoil and it felt like there was a substantial hp boost, the motomaster was not synthetic like the amsoil is though.

I gave a bunch of used motor oil to a guy who had an ad in my local classifieds. When he came to pick it all up a asked what he wanted it for and he says he mixes it with diesel fuel and runs it in his truck. Not sure if that is good or bad but he says it runs just fine.

I sure the heck wouldn't mix used oil with my diesel fuel. I do however add about 1oz twc-3 for every gallon of diesel fuel I put in my truck.

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Yeah it doesnt sound like a good idea. Im pretty sure he said he mixes it very lean like 90% deisel and 10% oil.

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Yeah it doesnt sound like a good idea. Im pretty sure he said he mixes it very lean like 90% deisel and 10% oil.

Haha I love how my thread turned towards diesels I love it. On cummins forum.com allot of guys mix 1oz of valvoline twc-3 to one gallon of diesel fuel for lubeication at fill up. The ultra low sulphur diesel nowadays doesn't properly lubricate the older fuel systems like that of my 02 cummins. These forums out there are sweet. So much knowledge and different opinions out there

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Haha I love how my thread turned towards diesels I love it. On cummins forum.com allot of guys mix 1oz of valvoline twc-3 to one gallon of diesel fuel for lubeication at fill up. The ultra low sulphur diesel nowadays doesn't properly lubricate the older fuel systems like that of my 02 cummins. These forums out there are sweet. So much knowledge and different opinions out there

 

ya dude

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I have a friend that races boats, and he swears by the stuff, says that you'd be hard pressed to stress an engine harder than you would in a boat. He uses it in all of his 2 strokes...... That said, the only crank I ever had fail was on [ironically enough] Penzoil outboard premix at 20:1.
I currently run outboard oil when play riding, but I'll spend the extra $$$ when racing, or at the dunes.... I'm chick"n 

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I have a friend that races boats, and he swears by the stuff, says that you'd be hard pressed to stress an engine harder than you would in a boat. He uses it in all of his 2 strokes...... That said, the only crank I ever had fail was on [ironically enough] Penzoil outboard premix at 20:1.

I currently run outboard oil when play riding, but I'll spend the extra $$$ when racing, or at the dunes.... I'm chick"n 

 

If we are talking very modified racing engines, then yes, you can stress them. But stock outboards are very understressed compared to mx bike engines that we are discussing here, hence the reason TC-W3 works fine for them.

 

Some examples from 1990's Evenrudes

521cc twin used to power 20, 25, 30, and 35 hp outboards. At most that's 0.067 hp per cc, or equivelent to a 16.8 hp 250cc bike.

The big dog at that time was a 4.0L V8 pushing 300 hp. Again, 0.075 hp/cc, or an 18.75 hp 250 cc bike.

 

Even today's engines are around the same. Evenrudes 250 hp E-Tec is 3441cc and peaks at 6000 rpm. That's 0.0726 hp/cc, or an 18.2 hp 250 cc bike.

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I tried outboard oil, and every time I railed a berm WOT I swear I smelled salty burned clam.   :o 

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If we are talking very modified racing engines, then yes, you can stress them. But stock outboards are very understressed compared to mx bike engines that we are discussing here, hence the reason TC-W3 works fine for them.

 

Some examples from 1990's Evenrudes

521cc twin used to power 20, 25, 30, and 35 hp outboards. At most that's 0.067 hp per cc, or equivelent to a 16.8 hp 250cc bike.

The big dog at that time was a 4.0L V8 pushing 300 hp. Again, 0.075 hp/cc, or an 18.75 hp 250 cc bike.

 

Even today's engines are around the same. Evenrudes 250 hp E-Tec is 3441cc and peaks at 6000 rpm. That's 0.0726 hp/cc, or an 18.2 hp 250 cc bike.

Hard data, math & everything, very rare these days.... I love it.

I have nothing to refute what you're saying, I just think that his [my boat racing friend's]  point was that boats in general have to run under heavy load due to the massive resistance of the water and wind, and the race boats in particular, being propped for max speed, to the point of dialing the trim to find the sweet spot where it'll go the fastest using 100% of everything available for the many hours that their races last.. versus the shorter bursts you would have on the bike anywhere but an uphill sand wash, or a run across a dry lake bed or something.

Now, destruction comes when pressures [however brief] exceed film strength, so I guess that's where manufacturers recommendations come in, since their engineers are in possession of that information and should know where that line is, plus any margin of safety.

I think someone else posted something regarding temperatures, and that too impacts viscosity and should be factored in as well.

Since I don't have all of the engineering data nor time and money to experiment , I'll save a few cents when I can or it's more convenient than running all the way down to the bike shop for the good stuff, but if I know I'm going to flog the hell out of it, I'll use the best stuff I can...............This also carries over to the Amsoil topic and running @ 100:1

Unfortunately, the bike manufacturers want you to use their stuff only, and seldom give you an equivalent, and oil manufacturers want you to buy their oil, so they'll usually tell you that their stuff will work in everything, so, you're stuck trying to make an educated decision with limited data.and a ton of b/s

Edited by crspep
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I did not read all the post buy most outboard oils are made for lower engine RPM's 5000-5500 and wont fair well in a 8000 + Rpm dirt bike. Now some of the synthetics will but the plain old Johnson and Mercury oil's I would not use. JMO

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I did not read all the post buy most outboard oils are made for lower engine RPM's 5000-5500 and wont fair well in a 8000 + Rpm dirt bike. Now some of the synthetics will but the plain old Johnson and Mercury oil's I would not use. JMO

Yeah I'm not gonna use marine pre mix. After everything I've read so far it is meant for marine use only

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