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13/14 SX-F...who is happy with the WP suspension and how did ya get there?

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Ok...since I have decided to go the KTM route and am obviously hearing all kinds of stuff regarding the WP suspension (most not really very complimentary honestly)  I figured would like take another approach to gaining a touch more insight into dealing with the suspension.  Lets hear from guys that are HAPPY with their current setup and how they got there!  Is it stock?  Modified?  Who did the work?  Bla bla..whatever you wish to add.  I know I hear OHlins is pretty much the bomb...as it should be when buying premium stuff.  I have had a but of education as to the why's and how's of both Ohlins and WP, but right now I would like to hear from the WP crowd so to speak.  

 

Oh yea.......NO BICKERING!  No..."that's impossible, can't work, you dont know nuthin, ect"!  Ok?  Play nice!!!!!!    :ride:

 

 

PaulP

Edited by PaulP

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Ok...since I have decided to go the KTM route and am obviously hearing all kinds of stuff regarding the WP suspension (most not really very complimentary honestly)  I figured would like take another approach to gaining a touch more insight into dealing with the suspension.  Lets hear from guys that are HAPPY with their current setup and how they got there!  Is it stock?  Modified?  Who did the work?  Bla bla..whatever you wish to add.  I know I hear OHlins is pretty much the bomb...as it should be when buying premium stuff.  I have had a but of education as to the why's and how's of both Ohlins and WP, but right now I would like to hear from the WP crowd so to speak.  

 

Oh yea.......NO BICKERING!  No..."that's impossible, can't work, you dont know nuthin, ect"!  Ok?  Play nice!!!!!!    :ride:

 

 

PaulP

 

I would say im happy/ok with my WP setup now, just some geometry left im testing. Still running my Ohlins more then my WP though.

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Not a ton of responses just means most people are tired of talking about it! I really liked the setup I had on my '13 450 SXF. I did buy an Ohlins rear but it wasn't a significant difference for me. I think the tuner I used did a really good job. I did have to make some tweaks (adjusted sag here and there, added oil to forks, adjusted clickers, etc). But after a few weeks of riding with the revalved setup, I had it dialed.

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well maybe tired of talking about but it is hard to drop 9k on a bike that you HAVE TO dump cash into to get it on par with the other offerings (although I am kinda set on a 350..but dont have to go that route).  And it seems as though it is the same few guys talking about it.  It does seem that the suspension is the week link here and locally the end solution was to go full Ohlins fron and rear!  That does appear to be the best performing solution so far, but was really looking to see how many guys feel they got the WP stuff working as well as, or better, than the Showa or KYB suspension.  Every tuner claims to have a great setup for the WP these days....but was really looking to see what the end user feeling was.  Yes the Ohlins does look to be the ultimate KTM solution at this point, but it is also spendy.  But that is not the point of this thread.....looking for WP setups and how you guys feel about it.  Have spoken to a few that gave up all together on WP.  Some tuners are damn near reengineering the stuff to get it up to speed!  Some say just a revalve and some say mods to pistons/bands are required, some say bottom cones, spring  seats, bla bla.......you get the idea.  So....WP....is it working for you and how did you get it to work?  That is question......

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Yes, my WP stuff works awesome. Its revalved for woods but still works great on the track.....Not just a shim shuffle but pistons too....

 

I think the KTM stuff just need a bit more time for setup....everytime you change just something minor it can make a big difference overall...

Edited by originalmonk
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In my opinion, there shouldn't be a debate about buying a new KTM. They are excellent bikes in every way shape and form. I think if you bought a 2013 350SXF, you would be perfectly happy with it after a few tweaks to the spring rates, setting sag and adjusting clickers. Plus, the 13's are being blown out at dealers across the country right now, there are MANY deals to be had and I'd jump now before they are all sold out!

Suspension is a very personal thing, some people's riding style fits the WP components fine, other people can't stand them and wind up down a path of upgrades. You will never know how the bike feels to you, until you buy it and try it. For all you know, the places you ride and your bodies physique fit the machine better the others. Heck, perhaps proper spring rates and sag setting are all you need to make the stuff work. I know many people who ride at the same places I do and haven't made a single adjustment to their stock WP components and are happy. Yet, they get on my highly modified setup and find it unridable. That just goes to you show you, there is a very small operating window of acceptance with these components. You either figure out how to ride around the issues and enjoy what you have, or you'll spend a lot of time and money finding an absolution which may not even exist.

I haven't lost the hope that one day, I will stumble upon the magic solution to fixing the WP fork issues. But having tried many different "standard" solutions, I can't say I'm very excited to spend hundreds of dollars on more "special" parts to make what should work out of the factory, function the way other forks function. This to me is the biggest conundrum, there just doesn't seem to be a straight-forward path to resolving the key WP CC fork issues. Every tuner has their own philosophy, very few tuners agree with one another on very basic principals, so its hard to get clear answers/solutions. This is why the Öhlins solution has been so popular as of recent, its truly is a no-nonsense, bolt on, black box, magical problem solver. This is in no way written to dissuade anyone from purchasing a KTM because they are truly great bikes and I will continue buying and riding them for the rest of my life. However, could be some stumbling blocks along the way, depending on your expectations and previous experiences.

Good luck with your decision and hope to be reading about your new pumpkin' soon! :)

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Ummm, at least in these parts there are ZERO 13 350sxf to be had, a few xcf left and I heard nationally its the same

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After some more testing done i can say that the wording "there is nothing better just worse or different" when it comes to forks at least. My Ohlins are plush and all and i can go quick over bumbs without being tired in same way as wp, but it does not provide the same feedback as my WP CC fork (3 different valving tested). I prefer the WP CC with betterstiffer feedback and will test it this week in combination with the ttx 490mm setup, and the WP shock with 486mm.

However i ride pretty far back on my bike and also the handlebar angled down towards me but in fwd mounting holes which means im dependant on front end feel being exact.

Will see if i sell my RXF fork or not after next week and weekend of testing.

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This is why the Öhlins solution has been so popular as of recent, its truly is a no-nonsense, bolt on, black box, magical problem solver.

 

Then why have your prized Ohlins broken down twice this year and had to be shipped off to be fixed?  Its not like your hard on them, at your race pace you could ride stock WP for years, like most of us and not have a single issue.  Has your magical problem solver (Ohlins) resulted in any championships? 

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Paul - you might get a greater variety of responses if you post your question in the suspension forum.

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I haven't lost the hope that one day, I will stumble upon the magic solution to fixing the WP fork issues. But having tried many different "standard" solutions, I can't say I'm very excited to spend hundreds of dollars on more "special" parts to make what should work out of the factory, function the way other forks function.

I can't even begin to imagine what you'd think about Sachs or Marzocchi, you'd never ever complain about WP suspension again.

 

Good tuners can set up WPs quite well. Ohlins need to be tuned too for particular riders and what they ride. I utterly fail to understand this comment,  "This is why the Öhlins solution has been so popular as of recent, its truly is a no-nonsense, bolt on, black box, magical problem solver." That's a total crock. No suspension out of the box is the end all be all for all riders. I've sent Ohlins in just as I used to send in WP stuff (I do my own WP now). I find the new 4cs forks to be easy to tune and much better than the OC stuff. I don't believe for a microsecond properly set up 4cs forks versus the Ohlins will make much if any difference whatsoever for the 99.9% of riders out there.

 

This is in no way written to dissuade anyone from purchasing a KTM because they are truly great bikes and I will continue buying and riding them for the rest of my life.

 

This comment shows how close minded you truly are. A reasonable person purchases products based on merits at the given time of purchase. You remind me of the Ford/Chevy Peeing Calvin guys. A good product today may not be tomorrow or the competition may well have done something better.

 

Loyalty to a hunk of iron is ludicrous.

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yea or go the route I did with the great wps . I had 8 revalves between my 11/12s, my riding time consisted of constantly pulling off the track making clicker /sag changes. I had the mighty mx tech stuff all $2300 werth, I truly laugh when I read u can make wps work.im sure u can, but they will never be as good as kyb sss.I went the ohlins route , and yes in fact it is truly outta the box great stuff. Your always gonna have to make set up changes, but u wont be scratchin your head saying wtf is wrong with this shit.

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This comment shows how close minded you truly are. A reasonable person purchases products based on merits at the given time of purchase. You remind me of the Ford/Chevy Peeing Calvin guys. A good product today may not be tomorrow or the competition may well have done something better.

I enjoy sticking with one brand, because it allows me to buy tools, stock service parts and build vendor relationships. Its actually smart to be a single brand devotee, because it saves a lot of money in the long run. I own FOUR KTM's, three of which are assembled and I ride on a regular basis, including one street bike. Nobody makes motorcycles like KTM does... please tell me another E-Start motocross bike? How about another 40hp 144cc 2 stroke? Ohh and the 690cc 4 stroke super single street bike? Again, these are models that no other brand would dare get near because they're too risky and its that RISK taking, which makes KTM such a great brand in my opinion.

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I enjoy sticking with one brand, because it allows me to buy tools, stock service parts and build vendor relationships. Its actually smart to be a single brand devotee, because it saves a lot of money in the long run. I own FOUR KTM's, three of which are assembled and I ride on a regular basis, including one street bike. Nobody makes motorcycles like KTM does... please tell me another E-Start motocross bike? How about another 40hp 144cc 2 stroke? Ohh and the 690cc 4 stroke super single street bike? Again, these are models that no other brand would dare get near because they're too risky and its that RISK taking, which makes KTM such a great brand in my opinion.

I have a yz250, 500exc, GasGas300, DR650, Harley, Montesa trials bike and a pile of other bikes.

 

KTM builds a bike like the YZ. Both are about equal in my opinion. The yz's suspension is starting to get a bit dated. Easily tuned.

 

The 500exc has an excellent counterpart with the Beta 498. Don't have to screw with FI either. Both are superb machines.

 

KTM has a 300. I have a Beta 300 coming my way. I don't consider the KTM any better than the GasGas or the Beta. Actually there's not that much difference between the machines other than the GG is a bit heavy, KTM's starter is an ongoing POS and Beta doesn't have a narrow ratio 300.

 

KTM builds nothing like the Harley

 

KTM builds nothing like the Montesa.

 

KTM builds an expensive high tech version of the DR650. I know which one I'll take if I've got to run Mexican gas or I'm way out in the middle of nowhere. I can easily afford any bike I want for DS. I chose the DR for it's stone cold reliability. Sure, the 690 is a hoot but nowhere near the reliability.

 

So, just exactly what is your point? You say you save a lot of money in the long run with the same brand. On just exactly what? Brake pads cost about the same on all. So do master cylinders, sprockets, levers, bearings, pistons, gaskets, clutches and about everything else. I can use a Brembo, Nissan or AJP master cylinder on the KTM, GasGas or Beta for both clutches and brakes. You talk about commonality. The clutch out of a 500exc won't work in the 300xcw nor will the pistons, rings, cranks or any of the other stuff.  I don't see this big savings you're talking about.

 

Likely you're like I am and keep all the basic service parts in your kit. I just don't see much difference in cost. Brakes, air filters, levers, master cylinders, a pile of jets and needles plus an injector for the 500. What else do you need to keep on hand that you can't have in a couple of days?

 

I truly am not blinded by brand. Pick a machine on it's merits for a particular use. Today it might be a KTM for a particular use, tomorrow it may well be a Kawasaki. Nothing ever stays the same and nobody builds the best in every category.

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Ok...since I have decided to go the KTM route and am obviously hearing all kinds of stuff regarding the WP suspension (most not really very complimentary honestly)  I figured would like take another approach to gaining a touch more insight into dealing with the suspension.  Lets hear from guys that are HAPPY with their current setup and how they got there!  Is it stock?  Modified?  Who did the work?  Bla bla..whatever you wish to add.  I know I hear OHlins is pretty much the bomb...as it should be when buying premium stuff.  I have had a but of education as to the why's and how's of both Ohlins and WP, but right now I would like to hear from the WP crowd so to speak.  

 

Oh yea.......NO BICKERING!  No..."that's impossible, can't work, you dont know nuthin, ect"!  Ok?  Play nice!!!!!!    :ride:

 

 

PaulP

 

Hey Paul, based off a recommendation I used JBI (www.RideJBI.com).  I got a JBI Synergy Suspension Revalve front and rear and also purchased a JBI Pro Perch for the forks.  At the time the Pro Perch had just come out and I was a complete newb to suspension.  After learning more about suspension and how the JBI Pro Perch functions I had it installed during the revalve.  The perch is supposed to allow the forks to be very plush and have better bottoming resistance.  Overall I am very very pleased with my suspension setup.

 

I started a thread similar to yours about 2 months ago and Tye shared some good insight.  He was also interested in trying out the perch too.

 

Tye did you ever buy a set?

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Tye did you ever buy a set?

It's for sure on my list, so is a completely updated rebound circuit which has been sparking my interest for sometime. My only concern is wasting money, but the jbi perches look like the best thing to come out of the suspension business in a long time. My only concern is that it doesn't directly address the bottoming cone issues.

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I have a yz250, 500exc, GasGas300, DR650, Harley, Montesa trials bike and a pile of other bikes.

Pick a machine on it's merits for a particular use. Today it might be a KTM for a particular use, tomorrow it may well be a Kawasaki.

You've got quite the diverse collection. I'd beg to say, most people don't have such a widely diverse collection. I think you'd find, most people are somewhat brand loyal, whether its Japanese or European, they like to stick with what they know.

I've waited years for KTM's 250F to finally meet the standards I've set up for performance 4 strokes of any kind; high pressure lubrication system, plain bearings, DLC coated/rocker based valve activation. The wait is over with the 2013+ 250/350F and its such a great platform. In my opinion, there isn't anything else like it on the market; steel frame, one-piece swing arm, hydraulic clutch, brembo brakes, ease of maintenance... its such a great, well-thought-out machine. Yep, its got some minor glitches, suspension being one of them. But I've owned and ridden A LOT of dirt bikes... nothing quite like the 2013 250SXF. I own it because it met my personal criteria and like wise, so did my 125, 144 and 690... they ALL meet the criteria and its why I own them. There are many KTM's I would never think about owning, the brand has SEVERAL duds, but I only really do two things; ride around town and ride on the motocross track. Those two things are where KTM as a brand, really shines. ;)

KTM builds nothing like the Harley

THANK GOD!!!

KTM builds nothing like the Montesa.

They don't need to, KTM's all about performance vehicles.

Sure, the 690 is a hoot but nowhere near the reliability.

Its a street bike, reliability doesn't even come into play. I'm not doing Baja on it! LOL

So, just exactly what is your point? You say you save a lot of money in the long run with the same brand.

At one point, I had a BMW car, Ducati motorcycle and Kawasaki dirt bike. I had to hit up three different dealers for the parts, it wasted a lot of time and money. Plus, I had to be proficient in fixing each brand as each one had its idiosyncrasies. Its much easier to own a similar brand, one place to get parts from, lots of interchangeable parts so if one bike is down, you can simply move the suspension, wheels, controls, bodywork and fuel tank very easily between the machines. I keep two spare levers in my tool box with standard KTM service tools. I use the same fluids on all my bikes, so the amount of crap I have to carry around with me is substantially reduced. One set of standard tools works for everything, all the WP CC forks and shock use the same tools. You buy the tools once, thats it!

I also owned 3 BMW car's at one point and at a later time, 3 Ducati motorcycles. It was the same deal.

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I would dare say the Montesa in some regards is years ahead of KTM. Trials bikes are highly specialized bikes that are very lightweight and incredibly strong. Mine has FI that is basically the system others are now using almost 10 years later. Might look in to trials bikes, you'd be surprised. Honda has used Montesa for years as a development platform.

 

Knock Harley all you want but consider this, I purchased it new in 1971, it has almost 300,000 miles on it, it has never left me at the side of the road and is now worth triple what I paid for it. Know of any KTMs that can be said for? For that matter how many bikes of that vintage other than Harleys still even run and have widespread parts availability?

 

The 690's I've seen have all been adventure bikes. I have no idea about how good or bad the street bikes are.

 

Its a street bike, reliability doesn't even come into play.

 

Right.  :rolleyes: Walking sucks.  ;)

At one point, I had a BMW car, Ducati motorcycle and Kawasaki dirt bike. I had to hit up three different dealers for the parts, it wasted a lot of time and money. Plus, I had to be proficient in fixing each brand as each one had its idiosyncrasies. Its much easier to own a similar brand, one place to get parts from, lots of interchangeable parts so if one bike is down, you can simply move the suspension, wheels, controls, bodywork and fuel tank very easily between the machines. I keep two spare levers in my tool box with standard KTM service tools. I use the same fluids on all my bikes, so the amount of crap I have to carry around with me is substantially reduced. One set of standard tools works for everything, all the WP CC forks and shock use the same tools. You buy the tools once, thats it!

 

That's really weak from front to back. My 500 tank won't fit my 200xcw nor will the bodywork. The two use different oil. Heck, even the TCs aren't interchangeable, KTM changed the stems. Same tools for 98% of the work between bikes except for the Harley, that one uses the same tools as my old cars. As far as parts, how hard is it to order from one or the other on line vendor?

 

I don't see any case you've made to solely depend on one brand versus looking at everything and selecting what works the best for a given situation. You're correct, I have zero brand loyalty, iron is iron.

 

Anyway, this is all off topic and has nothing to do with the OP, it's a suspension thread. I'm done with it.

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I would dare say the Montesa in some regards is years ahead of KTM. Trials bikes are highly specialized bikes that are very lightweight and incredibly strong. Mine has FI that is basically the system others are now using almost 10 years later. Might look in to trials bikes, you'd be surprised. Honda has used Montesa for years as a development platform.

Absolutely, one of the OSSA trials bikes uses a EFI 2 stroke. But that's not KTM's forte, their business model revolves around component/frame sharing. Its the key to how KTM can make so many different models, they share most of the same components on all of them. Plus if you notice, everything they make is about speed.

Knock Harley all you want but consider this, I purchased it new in 1971, it has almost 300,000 miles on it, it has never left me at the side of the road and is now worth triple what I paid for it. Know of any KTMs that can be said for? For that matter how many bikes of that vintage other than Harleys still even run and have widespread parts availability?

Thats pretty incredible, I've never heard of anything like it. I mean, today's vehicles are very disposable, doesn't matter who makes them. Lifespan is reducing as power output increases and weight decreases. Its much easier to make an 800lb motorcycle with an in-efficnet, low revving, air-cooled motor, then a 325lb, ultra efficient, high-revving, water/oil cooled, fuel injected machine. Its the reason why I don't like cruisers, especially Harley's. It's sloppy engineering, designed for people who don't care about performance at all. The reason why it runs so many miles is simply because, you wouldn't dare red line it at every stop light or shift change. ;)

The 690's I've seen have all been adventure bikes. I have no idea about how good or bad the street bikes are.

Well, my Duke 690 is my 5th street bike and the only bike which left me stranded was my CBR600F2. I highly doubt my little Duke will ever do anything wrong. There isn't much motorcycle there, no fancy electronics, nothing. :shrug:

 

My 500 tank won't fit my 200xcw nor will the bodywork.

Well, the example was if you owned similar generations of machine. Clearly if there is a generation change, the parts will be subtly different. KTM hasn't had very many generation changes in the last 10 years...

Same tools for 98% of the work between bikes

Its not been my experience, but then again, I've only been collecting tools for 13 years or so and most of the bikes I work on are those who require specialized tools like KTM and Ducati.

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