Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

Starting 86 XR200 Project - Pic Heavy

Recommended Posts

So I was looking through the classifieds last week and saw an 86 XR200 on there for 350 bucks.  It looked ok in the picture and had a very short description that just said it has a lot of new parts, but quit running.  Sounded interesting, what was wrong with this little gem?  I called on it and the guy didn't know a lot about it, but it had a recent top end done on it, new tires, new brake shoes, and everything else was stock.  I quizzed him about the engine and why it quit running.  He said he was putting through a campground, almost back to the truck and it just died on him.  they towed it the last 1/4 mile back to the truck.  He said it lost all compression and then jammed up when he slowly rolled it over with his hand.  He decided to just sell it.  I had a bike like this when I was a teenager, I had the 83 model of this bike.  I knew about the timing chain issues because I had rebuilt my engine 3 or 4 times because of timing chain problems before I fixed it correctly. 

 

I went out and looked at it.  I pushed on the kickstarter with my hand and it rolled over.  Sounded like the timing chain was off the sprocket, sure enough.  I offered him 175 bucks for it and he took it. :banana:

 

I brought it home and here it is!

 

20130906_072746.jpg

 

My XR600 was kind of in the way of the picture, it was feeling left out and jealous that I brought another bike home. 

 

Anyway, so starts my project.  I am going to figure out what's wrong with the engine, then I'm going to clean it all up, fix anything broken, and then decide what to do with it.  I initially thought I might be able to just get it running and cleaned up for cheap enough to sell it next spring for a small profit, but I might just like the bike too much and ride it.  My wife also needs a bike, so I might let her ride it if she ends up liking it.  I've already started tearing it apart to see what's wrong, but I'll put it in another post, stay tuned...  Here are a couple more pics of it right after I got it home.

 

20130906_165041.jpg

 

20130906_165056.jpg

 

6d3ca65e-8ee9-4d01-99b6-6343328420b6.jpg

 

20130906_165116.jpg

 

20130906_165124.jpg

 

20130906_165155.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started tearing the bike down this past weekend.  First things first, see what's wrong with the engine.  It was very suspenseful, almost like reading a really good book that you can't put down.  I HAD to get that next part off to see what was wrong through the whole process.

 

I pulled the spark plug out and looked in.  I cranked it over with my hand and the piston was moving up and down like it was supposed to, but I didn't see any valves moving.  Not sure if I would even see them anyway, but there was no resistance, so I again assumed timing chain issues.

 

Here was the spark plug...really really full of carbon.

20130906_165505.jpg

 

Now it was time to take the CDI unit off and look at the cam and timing chain.  Sure enough, I was right.  Timing chain off the gear.  Gear looks fine though.

20130906_165849.jpg

 

Now to figure out why it came off and what damage was done in the process.  I pulled the cam out, just to inspect it and it looks great!

20130906_171312.jpg

 

I put the cam back in and put the timing chain back on, paying attention to the marks on the flywheel and stuff.  Didn't want to accidentally cause more damage.  The timing chain was very loose, obviously why it came off in the first place.  Maybe he didn't adjust it after the rebuild. :bonk:

 

I unscrewed the adjuster nut off and pulled the adjuster all the way up, which is as tight as it'll go.  Chain was still very loose.  I was thinking at this point, maybe he put a new chain on it and it was the wrong one or maybe it was stretched out really bad.  I pulled the left crankcase cover and pulled the flywheel.  the bowed tensioner piece was broken!  Snapped right by the adjuster.  That's why it's not getting tight!  I was going to take a pic of it, but my phone died and I didn't get a pic of it.  Anyway, I pulled that out.  Now to get parts for it I guess.  That's how it sits in the garage right now.

 

My only concern now is the lower gear.  it was pretty chewed up on one side, but the other side is ok.  I think it'll be fine in the bike when it's running.  Anybody ever change that lower gear before?  I'm pretty sure I would have to split the cases and press a new gear onto the crank if I'm not mistaken.  Lots of time and money into a project like that to replace a 20 dollar part. 

 

The guy I bought it from didn't have a title, so before I spend any money on this bike, I'm going to go down and apply for one.  Once I get that squared away, I'm going to buy a new timing tensioner and put it back together.  It'll probably fire right up.  Then I'll start in on fixing and cleaning the rest of the bike. :ride:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice find :thumbsup:

 

IMO you will be very lucky if a valve wasn't bent when the chain jumped off the sprocket.

 

Here are some links on Timing Chain issues.

 

Adjuster Mods by OSA: http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281545

 

Timing Chain Sprocket

 

Installing by basilfawty:  http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/842052-crank-sprocket-xr-200/

Edited by chuck4788
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for those links, very helpful!

 

I'd be surprised too if the valves weren't bent, but the times I had the same issue on my 83, I only bent a valve once.  I'll put the bike together and if it doesn't run, I'll know.  If it runs good, then I'm probably ok.  Now that I know that trick from your post about changing out that bottom sprocket, I will probably do it.  It sure could use it.  The gear on the cam looks good though. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You scored on this one! Fix it and keep it!!! Love all the pics!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was looking at the Utah dmv site and they don't issue titles to off highway vehicles that are older than 1988.  I guess I don't need to deal with the title.  You do, however, still have to register the bike when you go ride it.  I'll deal with that when I get it running.

 

I also found out my dad has a couple parts laying around from my last xr200 when I was growing up.  he's going to ship that stuff to me.  Hopefully, I'll be ordering a couple parts today also.  when they come in, then it's back to work on the bike. :thumbsup:

 

I'll try and get some more pics of the bottom cam gear as well.  I'm going to replace it now that I can do it easily(thanks again for that link, chuck4788)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was pretty busy last night, so I didn't get a chance to work on the bike, but I snapped a couple more pics that I missed before when my camera batteries when dead.

 

Here is the crank gear

20130909_201834.jpg

 

It's a little hard to see, so here's another angle.  Looks ok on this side, but much more chewed up on the other.

20130909_201853.jpg

 

20130909_201900.jpg

 

I've seen a lot of posts and stuff about adding more windings to the stator.  I don't think I'll do that on this project, but when I saw the empty poles, it just reminded me of it.  The stock headlight should work fine anyway.  Not looking to do a Baja 1000 on the thing.

20130909_201909.jpg

 

I've got to order the gear today and start getting the tools together to get the thing swapped out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You know those bolts are inside the stator housing, right?

hehe, yeah, that's where I put them so I wouldn't lose them, although it's not a very good spot for them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there Russell3. 

 

That gear will go on the crank without splitting the case by means of thermal expansion. Measure the ID of the hole and od of the shaft. There is certainly a little more than just an interfrence fit on these. If you heated that gear to 212°f and held it there.....then the chances are that it would only go on half way. If you heat that gear using a torch until it is just about to change color then it will slip on. If it was me I would test and measure the ID size at difference temperatures before fitting it to get the correct fit before cooling. I have done one at 212°f and the result was not ideal. It had to be pressed on futher. It only went on half way. the crank was out of the engine cases. I think a mix of the basil Basilfawlty method mentioned above and thermal expansion will get the job done nicely

I am a firm believer in thermal expansion over cold pressing.

 

https://www.facebook.com/CleanRebuilds

 

Good luck.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I'll definitely be heating the gear up to get the easiest fit I can. 

 

I went down to lowes to get some of the stuff I'd need, but they don't have much of anything in metric.  I'm going to have to hunt around for a specialty bolt place or something.

 

I also ordered the gear yesterday.  Should come in on Friday at the latest they said.  My dad had a chain tensioner, but we checked the part number and it's for a 250.  I'll have to order the tensioner today too.  Everything else should be ok, I don't think I need anything else for this part of the project. 

 

After work today, I hope to go out there and kick it over.  I just want to see if there is compression.  If there is, then hopefully a valve isn't bent from the chain coming off.  If not, well, I'm ordering valves and gaskets I guess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Still waiting for parts.  I went out and put a compression checker on it since the valves are always closed with all the cam and everything out of the bike.  I took the auto decompressor cable off so that it wouldn't mess me up.  I kicked it over.  50 psi.  I tried again and again, but the most I ever got was maybe a little more than 50.  Seems pretty low to me, aren't these bikes supposed to have 180 psi or so?  Maybe I didn't get the gauge seated good.  It seems to have compression at least.  I'll put it back together and try it before I pull the head and swap out the valves.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A cold engine that has sat a few days will have low compression but it shouldn't be that low.  Pour a teaspoon of oil in the plug hole and try again.  The oil seals the rings so if the compression doesn't up there is leakage elsewhere such as valves or headgasket. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Come on guys...........step away from the computer and out into the shop and think about this!

 

 

Ok, only 50 lbs compression.......... I'm not surprised.  How is the proper amount (swept volume) of air going to get into the cylinder to compress with the valves closed all the time.........? :thinking:

 

Chuck, if you pour "enough oil" in the spark plug hole it will raise the compression..............but not by sealing the rings! ;)

 

Old School Al

Edited by Old School Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, you guys have a point about the valves not sucking in any air and possibly the ring seal quality.  the other thing I thought of was my gauge itself.  the tube is kind of long, I bet that it doesn't help having that extra volume there.  Like I said, it has some compression, so before I go spend 200 bucks on gaskets and valves, I'm just going to see if the thing runs first.

 

btw, I got the tensioner ordered as well, but it probably won't be here until Tuesday.  Sometimes, the hardest part of a project is waiting for the parts!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:prof: The cam "has" to be installed correctly, valve lash set, etc. to get any kind of a reasonable check on compression.............!!!  

 

Then. if it has enough compression to blow past your finger when held tightly..............it going to have enough to run.  And compression tests (and leak down tests) only test compression rings ability to seal compression.  You can still have a oil ring control problem (smoking) and have all kinds of compression!  

 

:prof: And, "valves don't suck in air"..............they are just the doors that "allow" air to pass through at times selected by the cam lobes. ;)

 

Old School Al

Edited by Old School Al

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, progress being made.  I worked on the bike for a couple of hours yesterday.  Finally got some time to post the pics and stuff.

 

I got a pic of the broken tensioner, which I didn't get a chance to do before.  It broke right at the bottom.  Not sure what could have caused it, but I have a new one coming on Tuesday.

20130914_073224.jpg

 

So today's project is replacing that lower timing gear.  Overall, wasn't too bad once I got the right setup on the puller and press.  I went down to o'reilly's and got a puller and had to special order the hardened steel stud and nuts and stuff.  What a pain that was, finding those.  I went to just about every hardware store, I even went down to a specialty bolt supply place, and even they didn't have metric stuff.  Auto parts store had it of all places.  Cost me about 7 bucks I think if I remember right for that stuff.  Anyway, here is my puller setup.  I had to put the flywheel bolt in.  The flywheel bolt has a ridge on it to keep the puller straight and keep it from slipping off.

20130914_082125.jpg

 

I did end up having to use a C clamp to keep the jaws on it, but it popped right off.  I also put a little bit of heat on it with a propane torch.  I was pretty scared of warping or heat damaging things, so I didn't put a lot of heat on it, but just enough to hopefully make it a bit easier.  Here is the gear off the bike.  It's fine on one side, kinda chewed up on the other.

20130914_082559.jpg

 

Now the harder part, putting the new one on.  I used a grade 10 stud, 8mm x 1.25 thread, and a couple grade 10 washers and a grade 10 nut.  Then I used a 13/16 inch 1/2 inch drive deep socket for the press.  I must have been getting too excited because I forgot to get a picture of that.  The biggest challenge to this whole thing is getting that gear lined up right for valve timing.  I ended up pressing it on three different times trying to get it right.  Each time, it twisted a different amount, so I almost had to just get lucky.  It's also hard to really tell if it's right.  I put a ruler on the woodruff key and marked a line on the crank with a pencil on each side of the key.  Then I marked another line on two adjacent valleys on the gear.  Here is the pic of it, but you may not even be able to see the lines well...

20130914_083424.jpg

 

20130914_083928.jpg

 

The last problem was holding the stupid thing so it wouldn't just turn the crank.  Taking it off was easy because I could just hold onto the puller.  This was just a socket, so it was round and slick.  What I ended up doing was engaging the kick starter to hold it.  Worked great with my fat butt holding it down.  I looked like an idiot, standing on the kicker on the right side of the bike and leaning over to turn the nut on the left side of the bike. :lol:   It worked fine though.  I heated the gear up with the torch again and then used some pliers to hold it and put it on where I wanted it.  Then it was go go go to get it on before it cooled and got harder to press.  The first two times I did it, it wasn't in the right spot, it was like exactly in between where it was supposed to go. :bonk:   Third time was a charm.  It's as close as I'm going to get it without fancy equipment to get it exact.

20130914_093233.jpg

 

20130914_093314.jpg

 

Took me a couple of hours to do all this and figure it out, but not too bad.  When that tensioner comes on Tuesday, then I'll put it all back together and see if it runs. :ride:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got the tensioner today and put it in.  Got the timing all set up ok and put it back together.  I put some gas in it and kicked it over.  Started right up on the second kick! :ride:   It's running really rich in the pilot circuit, but I haven't gotten into the carb yet.  It reved right up though and sounded great.  Now that I know the motor is good, now to start on the rest of the bike.  It needs some paint, lots of scrubbing, lube, and a couple replacement parts, but in a couple more weeks, it'll be ready to rock!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Standard compression test procedure is to do a "dry" test and then add oil to the chamber and repeat the test.  The oil seals the rings and will raise the compression reading, so a  significant increase in pressure indicates ring leakage. A lack of a significant increase indicates valve leakage. And from my experience of doing cold and hot compression tests, cold are always lower than hot.  In addition you only need about 60psi for an engine to start, but Honda specs 190psi for a hot test on the XR200R. 


 

 

Google "compression test" for more information.

Edited by chuck4788

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright, progress being made.  I worked on the bike for a couple of hours yesterday.  Finally got some time to post the pics and stuff.

 

I got a pic of the broken tensioner, which I didn't get a chance to do before.  It broke right at the bottom.  Not sure what could have caused it, but I have a new one coming on Tuesday.

20130914_073224.jpg

 

So today's project is replacing that lower timing gear.  Overall, wasn't too bad once I got the right setup on the puller and press.  I went down to o'reilly's and got a puller and had to special order the hardened steel stud and nuts and stuff.  What a pain that was, finding those.  I went to just about every hardware store, I even went down to a specialty bolt supply place, and even they didn't have metric stuff.  Auto parts store had it of all places.  Cost me about 7 bucks I think if I remember right for that stuff.  Anyway, here is my puller setup.  I had to put the flywheel bolt in.  The flywheel bolt has a ridge on it to keep the puller straight and keep it from slipping off.

20130914_082125.jpg

 

I did end up having to use a C clamp to keep the jaws on it, but it popped right off.  I also put a little bit of heat on it with a propane torch.  I was pretty scared of warping or heat damaging things, so I didn't put a lot of heat on it, but just enough to hopefully make it a bit easier.  Here is the gear off the bike.  It's fine on one side, kinda chewed up on the other.

20130914_082559.jpg

 

Now the harder part, putting the new one on.  I used a grade 10 stud, 8mm x 1.25 thread, and a couple grade 10 washers and a grade 10 nut.  Then I used a 13/16 inch 1/2 inch drive deep socket for the press.  I must have been getting too excited because I forgot to get a picture of that.  The biggest challenge to this whole thing is getting that gear lined up right for valve timing.  I ended up pressing it on three different times trying to get it right.  Each time, it twisted a different amount, so I almost had to just get lucky.  It's also hard to really tell if it's right.  I put a ruler on the woodruff key and marked a line on the crank with a pencil on each side of the key.  Then I marked another line on two adjacent valleys on the gear.  Here is the pic of it, but you may not even be able to see the lines well...

20130914_083424.jpg

 

20130914_083928.jpg

 

The last problem was holding the stupid thing so it wouldn't just turn the crank.  Taking it off was easy because I could just hold onto the puller.  This was just a socket, so it was round and slick.  What I ended up doing was engaging the kick starter to hold it.  Worked great with my fat butt holding it down.  I looked like an idiot, standing on the kicker on the right side of the bike and leaning over to turn the nut on the left side of the bike. :lol:   It worked fine though.  I heated the gear up with the torch again and then used some pliers to hold it and put it on where I wanted it.  Then it was go go go to get it on before it cooled and got harder to press.  The first two times I did it, it wasn't in the right spot, it was like exactly in between where it was supposed to go. :bonk:   Third time was a charm.  It's as close as I'm going to get it without fancy equipment to get it exact.

20130914_093233.jpg

 

20130914_093314.jpg

 

Took me a couple of hours to do all this and figure it out, but not too bad.  When that tensioner comes on Tuesday, then I'll put it all back together and see if it runs. :ride:

Good job on the gear. A PITA I don't want to go through!

I think I would want to build a jig to align the sprocket to the keyway. :banghead:

 

For others here is a link for Geof's post on installing the sprocket: http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/842052-crank-sprocket-xr-200/

Edited by chuck4788

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×