Sucked in Water!

[Rex Renolds]

-Hey guys 

My brother and i were out riding some desert creek beds today and there happened to be small pools of water here and there from recent rain storms that caused quite a bit of flash flooding earlier in the week. So we are riding along with my self in the lead and i start to go through what i think is another small puddle and end up sinking the bike up to the handle bars in muddy water. 

as soon as we managed to get the bike out of the water hole we immediately pulled off the air filter and spark plug then turned the bike upside down and cranked on the kickstart to get out what water we could. Quit a bit of water did come out but when i went to drain the gear oil quite a bit of water came out of the case " oil drain hole" as well. 

was wondering what course of action you guys might suggest taking now? I have already removed the exhaust and completely removed and cleaned cleaned out the carb. 

was just wondering what potential damage i may have caused and what i should do now to try and avoid any further damage.

Thanks guys
-Rex



also feel free to link me to any similar posts.

The Bike is a 2013 KTM 300 XC-W by the way.

[eprovenzano]

Since the water was muddy, I'd pull the top end. and get some diesel into the bottom end to protect the crank.  You should have refired the engine as soon as you could to drive out the rest of the water.  But since you say it was muddy, you may gave saved the top end by not doing that.  To keep the crank and bearing from starting to rust, tear off the top end and cylinder, and get some diesel or kerosene into the bottom end.  You may need to flush it a few time to ensure you got all contaminates out.  

 

As far as the gear oil, es your going to have water there.  This isn't too big of a deal.  Just drain, refill, drain, and run the bike. This may take a few oil changes to get the water out.   

 

My biggest concern is the crank and crank bearings.  Also what is the condition of the cylinder walls?  Muddy water carries dirt, which can scratch the cylinder walls.  I think all this is going to cost you is a gasket set, but this is something you need to do now.  Rust is the biggest issue.

[eprovenzano]

Any updates, inquiring minds want to know....

[thmike]

Any updates, inquiring minds want to know....

Had the same thing happen to my yz125 that I had. My wife was riding it and tried to cross a mud whole and hit the wrong spot sending her over the bars and bike into the mud.  Anyways when I got it home pulled the pipe off and swamp water came pouring out. I Ended up pulling the plug and sub frame off...pulled the carb and started pouring mix gas down the intake. turned the bike over 100 times while keep pouring gas. just don't kick the bike over at 100mph. friction will start a fire.

Anyways 3 months later we did a top end on it and no scaring on the cylinder. I was really really worried about that. I ended up just re-ring the piston since it looked great.

[Rex Renolds]

Any updates, inquiring minds want to know....

Standby.

[Rex Renolds]

I don't know guys I think I might have F-ed up. As I said I drained the oil as soon as I got home Sunday night but unfortunately I didn't have any oil to put back in the bike and it was to late to purchase any so i ended up having to let the bike set over night with no oil in it! I did how ever dump what little bit of tranny oil I had on top of the piston to keep it lubed and in hopes that some would get down past the rings and on to the bottom end. I'm thinking now I probably would have been better off leaving the original oil in the bike until I had some to replace it with? I was able to put oil in the bike Monday evening and let it set till tonight when I drained the new oil in hopes that it would flush anything bad out that may have gotten in the the bottom end. (the oil came out clean looking and I did not see any sign of dirt or other Contaminants) I then refilled the bike with new oil a second time and attempted to start it. The bike started up fine on the second kick and smoked quite a bit then after the bike ran for a few seconds It started to make a squealing sound for a few seconds and then the sound went away.

So I'm not sure what to think now. I did not ride the bike because it was late and i didn't want to piss off the neighbors. I just let the bike idle a few minutes and then shut it down. I was thinking about having my brother take it out tomorrow, (I have to work) ride it and get it nice and hot and then change the oil again but I'm still concerned about the squealing sound the bike made for those few seconds.

Im just not sure. What do you guys think I should do now?

[ADHDave]

You guys seem to be making a bigger deal out of this than it is. Your bike sucked in water the same way it sucks in air. Through a filter. Any contaminents of threatening size were caught in the filter. As for water in the cylinder. Its only a problem when there is enough water that it actually compresses between the piston and the head. Water doesnt compress like air does(only about .5 of one percent iirc). So when enough water gets in the cylinder its like filling your cylinder with cement. Thats the real threat because that can crack pistons, rods, bend valves, etc. Stop pouring strange oils in the top end. Its a 2t the only thing you should lube the top end with is 2t oil. If your top end looks okay, and you have clean oil back in the gear case. And its running you should be alright. 

 

Its a dirt bike. If its running; ride it.

[Rex Renolds]

I agree that I'm am probably over thinking this hole ordeal. I also agree that a majority of the water was inhaled threw the air filter how ever the end of the exhaust was completely under water as well when the bike died and it took us about 5 minutes to get the bike completely out of the water hole so I feel there is still the possibility that some water may have entered threw the exhaust as well. I just did the multiple oil changes for piece of mind.

[Zimman]

good point the exhaust water  intrusion was unfiltered and as far as ATF any lube is better than none when it has to sit after a submerge

 

if you don't get a 2 stroke pwc running ( just like anything )  after a rollover ( water in motor )  you better fill her full of some lube

the only bearing you might have deprived with what you did  is the small end of the rod ?

Edited September 11, 2013 by Zimman

[mjgarrone]

If you didn't pull the exhaust and clean it b4 u started it you probably pulled dirty water back into the top end. The squeeling was likely your top end grinding into the cylinder. Pull the top end and check it b4 you even kick it over again.

[Rex Renolds]

I'm pretty sure that I got all the water out of the pipe and silencer.  I pulled the entire exhaust system, air box, sub frame and carb and dried them all out.   I also tore down the carb and cleaned it all out as well.

[maztech89]

For $150 tops you can throw a top end in it and check crank and flush bottom end out while apart. Lots of peace of mind. I'd do it after hearing the squealing especially. At least pull the head and have a look for some scarring, you can do that for free if you wanna reuse orings.

Edited September 12, 2013 by maztech89

[eprovenzano]

I'd pull the head, and cylinder (it will cost you 1 gasket & o-ring) to get a good look at the piston, cylinder walls and the crank.  If all is well put it back together, replace all fluids, and then thrash it...  I would do this just as a precaution against future damage, repairs.

[gruberyz]

Maybe I'm missing something but on our Two strokes that ingest water I do the air filter, change the tranny oil run it hard and change the tranny oil again. Never had an issue with water causing damage. Now on my son's four strokes it's been a different tale

[Rex Renolds]

I'd pull the head, and cylinder (it will cost you 1 gasket & o-ring) to get a good look at the piston, cylinder walls and the crank. If all is well put it back together, replace all fluids, and then thrash it... I would do this just as a precaution against future damage, repairs.

I was thinking that my self actually. What is the O-ring that needs to be replaced along with the base gasket? I Have yet to do a top end on a two stroke.

Also would the bottom end (crank, bearings) show signs of rust and damage this quick or will it take a while? if I pull the top end and look in side at the crank and bearings and there are no sign of rust or damage is it safe to think it will be fine or is there still a chance it will rust up later down the road??

( I am pretty certain I have got all the water out of the engine)

Edited September 12, 2013 by Rex Renolds

[hardhitwarrior]

you could have filled the bottom edn with 2T oil from the reed area (take off reed cage). that wouldve lubed the bottom end, poure 2T oil from teh spark plug hole for the top end. the transmission you shouldnt worry so much, it already have oil in it.

[timmyp8823]

I agree that I'm am probably over thinking this hole ordeal. I also agree that a majority of the water was inhaled threw the air filter how ever the end of the exhaust was completely under water as well when the bike died and it took us about 5 minutes to get the bike completely out of the water hole so I feel there is still the possibility that some water may have entered threw the exhaust as well. I just did the multiple oil changes for piece of mind.

Reading this makes me think that you are confusing tranny oil with oil that lubes the crank. That is not the case. Doing oil changes will flush debris out of the tranny/clutch,but the actual bottom end hasn't been flushed. That's why it was suggested to tear off the cylinder and flush it out with diesel.

[Rex Renolds]

^^^  you are correct.  I was originally thinking that the bearings in question/ at risk  and crank were lubed by the tranny oil.    how ever after thinking about it for a while I realized they were not.    I did how ever dump quite a bit of 2T oil on top of the piston while it was in the highest point of the stroke that night after the incident.   I'm guessing it must have all seeped down past the rings and in to the crank area over night because when I turned the bike over slowly by hand the next day no oil came out of the exhaust flange.

 

    I'm not to concerned with there being contaminates or debris in the bottom end/crank area as every thing else looked very clean.       I was/am mostly concerned with rust.

 

 

 

      -Rex

Edited September 17, 2013 by Rex Renolds

[LovingOffroadPain]

^^^ you are correct. I was originally thinking that the bearings in question/ at risk and crank were lubed by the tranny oil. how ever after thinking about it for a while I realized they were not. I did how ever dump quite a bit of 2T oil on top of the piston while it was in the highest point of the stroke that night after the incident. I'm guessing it must have all seeped down past the rings and in to the crank area over night because when I turned the bike over slowly by hand the next day no oil came out of the exhaust flange.

I'm not to concerned with there being contaminates or debris in the bottom end/crank area as every thing else looked very clean. I was/am mostly concerned with rust.

-Rex

Hey Rex, wut desert do you ride?? Wut state/city town??

[Rex Renolds]

Central Washington state.     the town closest is called Quincy