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96, grinding noise, cam is messed up!

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Ok so I went for a ride, middle of the ride a really bad grinding noise happened. Scared after just replacing my clutch, I shut the bike off. When I started it up again, noise was gone. So I rode it back to the truck real easy and went home. Tore the valve cover off, and I think I found what happened. Theres a ton of metal shavings in the head, and the grinding seems to be on the cam. Is that supposed to be a bearing or something? See below in the pic.

cam.JPG

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In my opinion. Looks like you have oil flow. Your lobes dont look all that scratched up.that journal has no bearing. I think shavings got in there and scratched up. You can smooth out both with a polishing stone or emery

Cloth. So the shavings. Whats the metal? If its aluminum id thing cam chain wearing at the case. Steel, bigger problems with internals..i think its alum. Post picsof each cam lobe and each rocker and wait for expert opinions. Look down that rrectangle the chains in for evidence of chain scraping.

When the noise happened was it on deceleration?

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Question...........when you put the clutch cover on did you make absolutely sure you put the o-ring and alloy collar between the oil pump and clutch cover........?????????????

 

This would be an awful fluke to roast the center journal and NOT have been caused by an airlocked oil pump or the o-ring and collar missing....

 

I don`t believe in flukes by the way...

 

B

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Brian,

Wouldnt his lobes be more gouged without proper oil flow? Or is that journal the first to gouge up cause lack of bearing? Ive never experienced forgetting that collar and oring so id like to learn

And what would be your guess if he did remember to install the collar and oring?

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mmm,,bit messy..Well I suppose if he did get the collar and oring in next cab off the rank would have to be an airlock in the oil pump if he changed the oil..Why we keep saying to crack the clutch side to head oil line banjo bolts to check for oil flow after any sort of bottom end work or oil and filter change..Then as Bork says in another thread his mate installed the filter the wrong way around,,Suppose it could also be caused by not putting the oil filter cover on correctly..sort of hole/notch system is supposed to line up with that one..be hard to get that wrong but not impossible..

 

As you say Eric,,lobes don't look too bad,,I wonder about the Piston and rings..that center may be still ok once the cruds cleaned out of there,,she's just gouged out..I've seen a lot of them like that on various heads I had..I almost call it normal.. :shocked: on XL/XR heads..

Edited by Horri

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im of the opinion that its shavings from the camchain tunnel, theres fragments in the cyl head bolt on the right side bolt none on the left, honda have had problems with the camchain adjusters slipping , detensioning the chain temporarily, [hence noise going away ], id remove the tensioner and check it , previous items ive replaced  would hold tension until the were loaded up , then slip, once eng stops the tensioner spring pushes out again - noise goes away-but only temporarily

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Brian,

Wouldnt his lobes be more gouged without proper oil flow? Or is that journal the first to gouge up cause lack of bearing? Ive never experienced forgetting that collar and oring so id like to learn

And what would be your guess if he did remember to install the collar and oring?

 

I think it`s oil starvation,could be wrong....but he replaced the clutch and this happened immediately after......don`t think anything loose can get in that tight of clearance,,and that bearing surface is raised abover the floor of the valvetrain,,so if something foreign got in,,i`d have to jump up...or come out the oil feed hole..and that oil is filtered..

 

I`m guessing of course.......alot of diagnosis people want is guessing here,,i`m not there,didn`t put it together and have to go off past problems i`ve seen/repaired,etc ;)

 

If the oil stopped flowing the center bearing is alloy and when the head gets up to temp alloy is soft...no oil hot alloy,,= wear...

 

 

 

B

Edited by brianhare

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Thanks for the input guys, trying to process a lot of information here. Relatively new to engines in general. 
To clear up a few things:
-I did check oil flow to the head after changing the clutch and it was good. 

-The oil filter and cap was installed correctly

- I recently rode in the dunes so it's a possibility that sand got in and messed something up

-I'll check the metal shavings to see if they're aluminum but yes, the passage of the chain makes a lot of sense and could be a culprit!

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Yeah, so the flakes are magnetic... they're steel so I guess that rules out wear on the case.

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I measured the lobes this morning and they are all within spec, so I suppose I should be able to keep using my cam when I get it all cleaned up right? Now I just have to worry about where that metal has got in to, or possibly where it came from. Although Brian you make a good point that it couldn't have been something foreign because it's filtered... I guess the metal shavings are from the cam then? Is that your theory? 

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Again the cam will be magnetic the alloy in the head isnt. But for the steel to flake before the alloyjournal? Damn...id spray carb cleaner and air through your cam get all those oil passages clear.

But my thoughts now are to find out the cause of the oil starvation. Cause if thats it, it didnt get too bad yet. Theres oil in that pic. Maybe oil quality or lack of oil maintanance. If it gets any dryer in there the lobes and rockers will suffer.

Maybe measure oil pump tolerances and post pics.

And Bdeemo, that collar and oring in the right case was there?

Edited by notoriousE-R-I-C

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Again the cam will be magnetic the alloy in the head isnt. But for the steel to flake before the alloyjournal? Damn...id spray carb cleaner and air through your cam get all those oil passages clear.

But my thoughts now are to find out the cause of the oil starvation. Cause if thats it, it didnt get too bad yet. Theres oil in that pic. Maybe oil quality or lack of oil maintanance. If it gets any dryer in there the lobes and rockers will suffer.

Maybe measure oil pump tolerances and post pics.

And Bdeemo, that collar and oring in the right case was there?

Yeah that's what I was thinking, really peculiar for the cam to flake off before the head.... leading me to believe the steel came from somewhere else, but don't know where or how. Haven't taken the clutch cover off yet but I remember putting the collar and o-ring on. I also started the bike up and loosened the banjo bolt on the head to check flow before riding or anything and it squirted pretty good. Perhaps some sand got in my oil pump from the dunes :\

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Matters not one iota to me what the metals made of,,The clutch cover needs to come off to verify the oring and collar is in place.The cause of the oil starvation is what you need to find.

 

You have to be super careful when putting that collar and oring in place,,one false move with the clutch cover as you're trying to put it on can dislodge the collar and it'd fall out into maybe the bottom of the clutch cover..If it did you may get some oil flow to the head for a while but would it be enough..If it is in position then I dunno what to look at..You didn't remove the oil connection lines that run from the frame to the motor for any reason did you??

Edited by Horri

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Well since I went to the dunes I've been changing the oil every ride to kind of flush the engine of anything that may have gotten in... I only went on one ride after the dunes though. I put 2.2ish qts in after replacing clutch and stator... And Horri, I only took off the banjo bolt strainer on the downtube of the frame. I replaced it, but did notice that it was leaking about 5 miles into the ride, where I promptly tightened it. The grinding noise happened about 60 miles into the ride, 5 miles before we came back to the truck. I do plan to take off the clutch cover and inspect it, as well as split the case, check the cylinder, and do a complete engine overhaul, going through anything that may have wear. 

(which, while we're on the subject, does anyone have suggestions on the most important things to check?) I'll be going through my manual and getting most of my intel from there.)

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Took the clutch cover off, the oil seals were fine, the one on the inside of the clutch cover coming from the oil filter looks a little worn, I'll have to replace that one, but I did find a rather large chunk of steel on the bottom of the right case. Approx 5/16" x 1/4" x 1/8" thick. I didn't see any wear on the right case so I'm guessing it popped out of the transmission. I don't know if this is where the grinding noise came from and the cam was just an accumulated wear from some time when the previous owner let the bike run out of oil.

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Took the clutch cover off, the oil seals were fine, the one on the inside of the clutch cover coming from the oil filter looks a little worn, I'll have to replace that one, but I did find a rather large chunk of steel on the bottom of the right case. Approx 5/16" x 1/4" x 1/8" thick. I didn't see any wear on the right case so I'm guessing it popped out of the transmission. I don't know if this is where the grinding noise came from and the cam was just an accumulated wear from some time when the previous owner let the bike run out of oil. 

I was, in fact, able to switch through all 5 gears with no problems by the way.

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