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So tired of Honda valve failure is this the fix?

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I found this on Ebay and they are using the Berillium intake seats and Ti intake valves, they guarantee it from zeroing out!  If it does they will fix if for free fro the lifetime of the bike!!!

 

So after doing the top end numerous times in 2.5 years from heavy desert use I need to find a cure for it. I have noticed they do not hold up well to sustained high RPM use.

 

I have seen the guys claiming that they can get 100+ hours before needed an adjustment, Not in my case,  I am lucky to get 100 out of them period!  I keep my air filters clean and oiled, etc.  No matter what they still zero out.  

 

This company claims to have the answer and guarantees them for life (to the original customer).  If it goes out more than 3 shim sizes they will fix it free!  I am all over this.

 

Anybody else tried these guys and have any reviews?   They have 100% satisfaction via Ebay, so thats quite a feat in itself!

 

 

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Do yourself a favor and ask the guys around you who does valve jobs right...D 37 guys are a great resource, they know who does them right.

 

We all know valves will wear with time. Anybody who guarantees them for life is selling snake oil.

 

Having said that, a high quality valve job should last hundreds of hours, even for guys racing the Baja 1000 or local D37 events.

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The valves haven't failed, they have a service life and they wear out.

 

100 hours is not nearly enough, unless you are putting the titanium valves back in. That would be a recipe for the same short wear interval.

 

SS valves and a proper valve seat preparation have been proven to give long life over and over.

 

High RPM will wear anything out. One of the reasons diesel engines last forever is that they never turn much more than 2700 RPM's.

Edited by Leardriver
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If you are a wide-open Expert class desert racer who wears a tire down to the carcass in one race,  than you might expect to do valves at 100 hours or less depending on how you take care of your motor.

That's longer than just about any other bike but the XR series when it comes to expert level abuse of anything inside the motor.

Ask a KX riding expert what he has to do to keep his bike running.....a six pack of pistons and clutches is mandatory for a season.

 

As CRF Doc said, ask the D-37 Expert 50+ # 1,2 and 3 ( and several others) how many hours they get on a properly set up CRF head. 

You don't solve the problem by throwing money at it. It can still be done very, very wrong with the very best parts.

Precision building is the key. 

Who cares about a warranty? A warranty is there for mistakes and defects, and to get you to buy the product.

A warranty is not a guarantee, nor will it tow you 75 miles back to the truck.....

Edited by Krannie
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/370627995125?item=370627995125&viewitem=&vxp=mtr&gclid=COzDz5zdzbkCFed_QgodaxgAGQ#ht_3024wt_1154

 

Sorry forgot to post the link!

 

Anyway, as to getting hours of use out of a CRF450 I would love to be able to do that.  I have owned several and none ever lasted very long.  And this is also including a new head from Honda pre-built from the factory.  Didnt net me any more time than ones I had done from a shop using Ti or Stainless valves.

 

I do tend to run my 450s pretty hard overall, and probably do ride it more aggressively than most riders/racers.  And no I am not bouncing it off the rev limiter, but do keep it pretty high in the RPM range to get the most power out of it.  Another thing is I tend to turn with the rear tire as part of my riding technique so I tend to have the rear tire always going a faster than I am, also not too hard since I weigh in at a whopping 125 lbs. so the tire spins with a mere thought.

 

It just seems to be the motor since it hasnt really mattered how the head was done, factory or otherwise, they all see to be relatively close in hours till failure.  

My current set of valves have lasted almost 130 hours which is a record for me, but I was doing a lot of slower paced riding in that particular span of hours.  I am just thinking its the type of riding I do thats causing it. I tend to have the throttle on or off so I am thinking that is not so conducive to long engine life.

 

I have had the valves cut with the best machines making sure all the angles and face widths are true, etc...and I work in the automotive industry in high performance vehicles so I make sure that everything is right.  I also replace the guides every time to make sure everything is spot on, still to no avail.  Just kind of frustrating really.

 

The guys I posted a link too seem to have a really good reputation, I have tried having some of the best shops in the area do them (even placed recommended by some of the faster desert racers) and just havent had much luck.  

 

This place I linked machines out the stock intake seat and installs a Copper Beryllium seats instead and runs Ti intake valves like stock and says if it falls out of spec by 3 shim sizes that will fix it for free for life (original owner)  This being said and having quite the track record of killing valves doesnt it seem like a good way to go if I have tried damn near everything else? 

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Do yourself a favor and ask the guys around you who does valve jobs right...D 37 guys are a great resource, they know who does them right.

 

We all know valves will wear with time. Anybody who guarantees them for life is selling snake oil.

 

Having said that, a high quality valve job should last hundreds of hours, even for guys racing the Baja 1000 or local D37 events.

 

I have and tried one or two of the "Good Guys" and made no major improvement in life..

The valves haven't failed, they have a service life and they wear out.

 

100 hours is not nearly enough, unless you are putting the titanium valves back in. That would be a recipe for the same short wear interval.

 

SS valves and a proper valve seat preparation have been proven to give long life over and over.

 

High RPM will wear anything out. One of the reasons diesel engines last forever is that they never turn much more than 2700 RPM's.

 

Yes you are right, They do have a service life and I seem to be able to find the end of it pretty quickly, lol.  I agree RPM is VERY hard on stuff.  maybe I need a 650R and just lug it...

If you are a wide-open Expert class desert racer who wears a tire down to the carcass in one race,  than you might expect to do valves at 100 hours or less depending on how you take care of your motor.

That's longer than just about any other bike but the XR series when it comes to expert level abuse of anything inside the motor.

Ask a KX riding expert what he has to do to keep his bike running.....a six pack of pistons and clutches is mandatory for a season.

 

As CRF Doc said, ask the D-37 Expert 50+ # 1,2 and 3 ( and several others) how many hours they get on a properly set up CRF head. 

You don't solve the problem by throwing money at it. It can still be done very, very wrong with the very best parts.

Precision building is the key. 

Who cares about a warranty? A warranty is there for mistakes and defects, and to get you to buy the product.

A warranty is not a guarantee, nor will it tow you 75 miles back to the truck.....

 

Yeah no kidding, really been thinking about a new KX lately.   But yeah I am not just having hacks do it, I am having it done right with new everything, not taking any shortcuts.  Seems like I am chasing my tail, I just hope a new material on the intake seat will help, I have read a lot about that and it seems to make a huge improvement over the stock Copper mag. seats.

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I found this on Ebay and they are using the Berillium intake seats and Ti intake valves, they guarantee it from zeroing out!  If it does they will fix if for free fro the lifetime of the bike!!!

 

So after doing the top end numerous times in 2.5 years from heavy desert use I need to find a cure for it. I have noticed they do not hold up well to sustained high RPM use.

 

I have seen the guys claiming that they can get 100+ hours before needed an adjustment, Not in my case,  I am lucky to get 100 out of them period!  I keep my air filters clean and oiled, etc.  No matter what they still zero out.  

 

This company claims to have the answer and guarantees them for life (to the original customer).  If it goes out more than 3 shim sizes they will fix it free!  I am all over this.

 

Anybody else tried these guys and have any reviews?   They have 100% satisfaction via Ebay, so thats quite a feat in itself!

 

 

Yes absolutely that is the fix, if you are referring to these guys, they have a website and also use ebay alot

www.fastheads.com  aka racers ER,

 

I used the 599$ head package on my 07 and rode the bike for 2 years racing. with two adjustments in total. stock setup died in about 50hrs.

 

Don't hesitate to use racers ER, they do great work and I recommend them often to anyone with crf250 valve blues

a207929134474c39366d1e_m.JPG

Edited by adam8781

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Yes absolutely that is the fix, if you are referring to these guys, they have a website and also use ebay alot

www.fastheads.com  aka racers ER,

 

I used the 599$ head package on my 07 and rode the bike for 2 years racing. with two adjustments in total. stock setup died in about 50hrs.

 

Don't hesitate to use racers ER, they do great work and I recommend them often to anyone with crf250 valve blues

a207929134474c39366d1e_m.JPG

What kind of racing do you do and do you know how many hours till this point?  Seems to be working well for you so far. What size intake shims are you on right now ?  Just wondering how far they have moved.  Thanks for your input.

I am really hoping that this will help me improve the lifespan and after all the research I have done it seems that the Beryllium seats on the intakes using Ti valves are the way to go.  

 

I have been spending a LOT of time on my 2 stroke lately because of this, just trying to keep the hours off of it because of the valves, and thats unfortunate because I really like that bike, its the one that I would prefer to race as well. 

 

Seems the real answer is to build my own bike, a late model KX500 motor in a late model aluminum frame. Or a CR500 motor in a newer frame, but I like the fact that the KX has a PV. Aaaannnyway...

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So after doing the top end numerous times in 2.5 years from heavy desert use I need to find a cure for it. I have noticed they do not hold up well to sustained high RPM use.

 

 

 

No-Toil user?

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What kind of racing do you do and do you know how many hours till this point?  Seems to be working well for you so far. What size intake shims are you on right now ?  Just wondering how far they have moved.  Thanks for your input.

I am really hoping that this will help me improve the lifespan and after all the research I have done it seems that the Beryllium seats on the intakes using Ti valves are the way to go.  

 

I have been spending a LOT of time on my 2 stroke lately because of this, just trying to keep the hours off of it because of the valves, and thats unfortunate because I really like that bike, its the one that I would prefer to race as well. 

 

Seems the real answer is to build my own bike, a late model KX500 motor in a late model aluminum frame. Or a CR500 motor in a newer frame, but I like the fact that the KX has a PV. Aaaannnyway...

 

Intermediate Mx only, No offroading, Im 200lbs, this was my 2007 crf250. They eat valves to breakfast lunch and dinner compared to a 450. I rebuilt it at 50-60 hours with the 599 package. Raced it for 2 more seasons, plus countless practice track hours. Had to adjust them twice. Once after a break in. And once at the end of two years when i sold it the left intake valve needed a minor re shim. Im 200lbs and I like to rev (stage 2 cam and 13.5 piston) 

 

This setup on a 450 would last even longer since they dont need to scream like a 250f. Don't hesitate to use fastheads setups.

 

 

I dropped a pro-x kit in my 08 without cutting seats. Runs exactly like it did before. Cost like $150.

 

Should have cut seats, it is going to eat those valves in short order.

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No-Toil user?

 

Negative, Uni dual stage only. Like I said "Good" maintenance, lol.

I dropped a pro-x kit in my 08 without cutting seats. Runs exactly like it did before. Cost like $150.

 

For now anyway..

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I doubt its going to eat the valves. I did some research and read where a few others have done the same with good results. Im not an A rider so i think they will be fine. I only shimmed stock ti valves twice before changing them out to steel valves. Runs like a top. Maybe if i put ti valves back. I think the seats were still in good condition since i changed valves early.

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I bought a CRF head from racers ER , Brent ( the owner ) is good to deal with . The valves have not moved at all in many miles .

I have noticed the Racers ER head has more mechanical noise than the OEM head .

 

Very odd, wonder what could be the cause of this? Maybe the seat material transmits more vibration causing more noise? I dunno...

 

I was deciding between APE, Big Bore Thumpers, and Racers ER.  

Racers ER seems to be the only one that offers the Beryllium seats.  

 

I am done with stock intake seats they plain dont work (for me), no matter what I have tried, doenst matter.  

 

I do ride a little harder than most people, I was racing at Expert level at 14 years old, I am 41 now..and my main problem is I am a horrible tire spinner!  It is quite a good tactic in Desert racing, I make a LOT of dust (go go gadget smoke screen) not doing it for that reason, but that is the result.

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Speed -

 

Have you looked into Short Block Charlies out of Tempe? (480) 921-1446. All of the "aged" racers in my class swear by him. They are racing MX, desert and supermotard with their 450's. I believe he uses Beryllium seats and Ti valves..... not absolute on that though. 3 of these guys have told me that they havent had to touch their valves in 2 seasons of racing. Honestly though, from your posts, I wouldnt belive these "gentlemen" are running as hard as you do. Worth a try I guess.

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I` m using a big bore head , and have adjusted it once. I`v check it few times after that , and its been good. For the money big bore is a good way to go. i think it was around 550 , for a new head , and valves.

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Speed -

 

Have you looked into Short Block Charlies out of Tempe? (480) 921-1446. All of the "aged" racers in my class swear by him. They are racing MX, desert and supermotard with their 450's. I believe he uses Beryllium seats and Ti valves..... not absolute on that though. 3 of these guys have told me that they havent had to touch their valves in 2 seasons of racing. Honestly though, from your posts, I wouldnt belive these "gentlemen" are running as hard as you do. Worth a try I guess.

 

No I have not, but I am gonna call him up.  And yeah its hard to tell who rides hard and who doesnt, I am not the fastest guy out there, but not the slowest either.  I get tired of everyone telling me I am doing something wrong (like poor maintenance) until I get to ride with them, after that they know why I wear motors, I am just heavy handed on the throttle.  And I have been riding since I was 3 years old so I am not new to this sport.  I guess I have never got the 2 stroke style out of my system from decades of riding them.

 

I also found a local guy who does a lot of the local racers from D38 and D37, and those areas are full of really fast guys (more so D37), he comes highly recommended by a few of the top guys who I know are really fast like Chris Blais, he can get down! and this guy does his motors.

 

He said he does a mod to the crank, some sort of relief and says its worth 2-3 hp, and a mod to the emulsion tube on the carb, I run a 488 big bore kit and I was not to happy with the way it signed off at higher RPM because I think you guys know how I ride my bike, it had a lot more grunt down low, but just felt more Diesel like than it did before, so I was not very impressed with the big bore for my style of riding.  

 

When I told him I had the 488 kit he said, "Its not as fast as you thought huh" I replied, yep, I wish I could have low end grunt and still rev like before. I thought adding the Stage III cam would bring the power back up, but it didnt... He said he can do it, he will be installing 2mm oversized valves for more flow, etc...so I am going to talk more to him later today, I pulled the crank out of the bike last night (getting pretty good at it now) for that mod, so I am hoping to have a bike that revs like my 450 used to and have a lot more grunt due to the increased bore size.  Keep my cake and eat it too right?   

 

I am also still hunting for a good 500 2 stroke motor (CR or KX) and a late model rolling chassis, that might be the real answer I have been looking for.   Power of a big thumper and the maintenance of a big bore 2 stroke, the past 3 years I always cringe when I swing a leg over my 450s  knowing I am using up hours till rebuild, thats just not right, lol. 

My Kawasaki buddies never do valves!!!!  Damn you Honda..however I did choose to buy another honda and another, etc.....

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I'm using Racers ER extreme ported 08 head on my 06 450 with stage one cam and 12.5 comp piston. Brent was great to deal with also got all my rebuild parts from him at the best rate + shipping to Oz, not a lot of hours on the bike yet( 5 or 6 maybe). but so far ok. just about to check them after break in.

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No I have not, but I am gonna call him up.  And yeah its hard to tell who rides hard and who doesnt, I am not the fastest guy out there, but not the slowest either.  I get tired of everyone telling me I am doing something wrong (like poor maintenance) until I get to ride with them, after that they know why I wear motors, I am just heavy handed on the throttle.  And I have been riding since I was 3 years old so I am not new to this sport.  I guess I have never got the 2 stroke style out of my system from decades of riding them.

 

I also found a local guy who does a lot of the local racers from D38 and D37, and those areas are full of really fast guys (more so D37), he comes highly recommended by a few of the top guys who I know are really fast like Chris Blais, he can get down! and this guy does his motors.

 

He said he does a mod to the crank, some sort of relief and says its worth 2-3 hp, and a mod to the emulsion tube on the carb, I run a 488 big bore kit and I was not to happy with the way it signed off at higher RPM because I think you guys know how I ride my bike, it had a lot more grunt down low, but just felt more Diesel like than it did before, so I was not very impressed with the big bore for my style of riding.  

 

When I told him I had the 488 kit he said, "Its not as fast as you thought huh" I replied, yep, I wish I could have low end grunt and still rev like before. I thought adding the Stage III cam would bring the power back up, but it didnt... He said he can do it, he will be installing 2mm oversized valves for more flow, etc...so I am going to talk more to him later today, I pulled the crank out of the bike last night (getting pretty good at it now) for that mod, so I am hoping to have a bike that revs like my 450 used to and have a lot more grunt due to the increased bore size.  Keep my cake and eat it too right?   

 

I am also still hunting for a good 500 2 stroke motor (CR or KX) and a late model rolling chassis, that might be the real answer I have been looking for.   Power of a big thumper and the maintenance of a big bore 2 stroke, the past 3 years I always cringe when I swing a leg over my 450s  knowing I am using up hours till rebuild, thats just not right, lol. 

My Kawasaki buddies never do valves!!!!  Damn you Honda..however I did choose to buy another honda and another, etc.....

 

Oversize valves with the stage 3 will certainly wake up the topend.

 

 

Please get more info on the crank, 3hp sounds fake to me but I would like to know more about this special mod

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