Anyone Ridden a KTM 300 XCW? compared to our CR250?

[Kingsoup]

Hey guys! this is coming to the end of my 2nd season doing technical woods riding, rocky hill climbs, mud pits, etc here in Alberta on my 97 CR250R.

I have only really ridden a few other bikes, my friends 03 WR250F is amazing, no vibration, good low end power, high revs, fast, feels even pretty light, and a few smaller 150's etc.

I have lots of modifications to my CR250 to make it more trail friendly, I just wonder if a bike like the KTM would be even better? I find I get tired out after 4hrs+ of techincal riding on this bike and my buddy on his Cadillac (WR250) isn't near as beat, that bike is just so much smoother then mine, is the KTM 300 like this? My bike runs really well, starts on first kick, carb is smooth, I can do everything on it, really capable (except go over 80kph or so as thats near redline in 5th now)

 

Its hard since I've really spent a lot of time and money on this bike to consider selling it at a loss to change bikes, any opinions?

 

1997 CR250R

14oz stealthy flywheel weight

Aftermarket triple clamps, Fatty Bar with rubber between mounts

Kevlar clutch

FMF gold giganto pipe

12-55 Gearing (its reallllllly low, for the steepest of steep rocky hill climbs)

new M5B tires 110 and 80

Total engine rebuild this year

bearings etc, kickstand

 

Thanks!!

 

[choppertown]

Yes their will be a big, big diffrence but! out of all the mods, i dont see the most important one in your list, suspention tune! makes it nigth and day in the woods. you have to remember, that the suspention on that 97 is geared for supercross and outdoor. and id say more so for the supercross. making it a bitch in the woods.

[Kingsoup]

Thats true! I haven't redone the suspension for trail riding, I have to redo the seals this week and i'm going to decrease the total fluid in the forks to try and soften it out!

Its hard when you don't know someone with a different bike to get a feel for how much different it might be and worth the upgrade. I worry about getting a bike with a worn out motor and parts after just replacing and rebuilding my whole bike!

[choppertown]

go to a shop and let them re-valve and re-spring.

 

come o now..you live in alberta! you can afford it!

[Kingsoup]

Hey Choppertown! well you know how it is, its like that movie blow, I can barley find enough places on my houseboat to stack all my money!  I don't work in camp, or have a Geology degree or pawn crapmaster condos on people so I'm normal income like everyone else! I had considered buying the revalve and doing the suspension, but this comes back to a newer design machine. Keep putting money into the older platform race bike I use for strictly woods riding, or upgrade to a newer platform that supposdly has a wider powerband motor with better low end torque.  On paper the specs are pretty simliar between the machines.  I just wonder..the WR250F is like night and day nicer to ride then my beast, but it does lack low end power when you really need it that my CR has.

[choppertown]

sure sure albertan! haha

 

the 300 is nice. but, unless you are really really into racing, i would be rather happy with the 97. atleast for a wile yet. In my opinion, a re-valve front and rear is the best money you could ever spend.

[223hpyhooker]

Ive ridden a 300xc and it was a good bike that was like a tractor down low but I think with some mods and a rekluse along with as mentioned proper suspension tuning ourbbikes can be made on good enough for woods for a lot less money then the 7k for a new one. Also I fit a lot better on the cr then I did on my yz or the pumpkin.

[Hans Schmid]

A newer 300 will be better initially but $1000 bucks into your CRs suspension will be on par if not better overall, plus you save money in the long run....

[Kingsoup]

The suspension is a big deal eh? I can see that, the WR250 is so much softer and has really nice low speed compliance compared to mine! that being said even though I think I've only ever used 50% of the travel, its never let me down, jumps, rocks, hill climbs, big logs, its just not very comfortable, I also hear that any seat other then the 97 is a lot more comfy!  MmmMm maybe money well spent to have the rear shock down properly, I don't think thats something we can service ourselves so much eh?  I can see revalving the front fork myself with a Kit, but not the rear eh?

 

I do like the Honda, especially with its brand new rebuilt motor!  I wonder about those Rekluse clutches, they are quite expensive, is the idea that you just don't stall it out when it comes to stall point?  Part of the reason I geared to 12-55 was so I can super slow slow speed in the woods without stalling, I rarley ever stall it anymore.

 

So vote is that when setup properly the lightweight CR can hang with the Fancy pumpkin fancy boy I-see-them-everywhere-on-the-trails 300 XC?

[choppertown]

suspension is EVERYTHING. you can throw all the money you want into a bike and its motor. and it will be crap compaired to a stock bike with tuned suspension.

 

a rekluse isnt a nessesity. they are nice. i may end up getting oen down the road.

[mynewcr250]

the ktm is purpose built as is the honda, each for different disciplines. the ktm is going to be easier to ride off road as its already got all the offroad goodies (and some "regular" goodies) including a head cut to enhance an "offroad" powerband, large flywheel, different crankshaft vs the mx based SX, softer ignition mapping, 18" rear wheel, offroad suspension valving, hydraulic clutch, awesome brakes, larger gas tank, electric start, purpose built transmission gearing and so on. you can make most of those changes to the honda, but how much more do you want to put into an outdated aluminum chassis? how much support is there going to be for the 1st gen aluminum framed bikes in the future? all just things to look at.

 

in terms of mx, ill say that i prefer not to hop back on my 00 cr250 since owning the 13 250sx for a little over a year. the honda after being revalved is actually pretty good with the 2nd gen frame but in terms of everything else it cant hang (and why should it? its going on 14 years old).

 

you've already put a lot of money into your current ride so that is a factor. maybe get one of those "pumpkin fancy boys" to let you take their 300 for a spin? who knows, you may not like the ktm after riding one...

Edited September 24, 2013 by mynewcr250

[Glenn 141]

having owned quite afew KTM's (four 300's, a 150 and a 200) I think a xcw would be a fine choice for your off-road only riding. One bike you should seriously concider is the 200! These bikes have a ton of low end grunt, rev out well and are the lightest thing on wheels, you can ride one all day and never be tired, I would have one over any 250 thumper and if you liked your pals wr youll love the 200.

[Qqqqqqqqqqqq]

Yeah , the 200 is a good bike

[Kingsoup]

Hey guys thanks for the Feedback!   Mynewcr250 you make a good point about the bike being quite old now and the parts support is not as good. The advantage I suppose is they didn't make huge huge changes until the end of run on the CR250.  I appreciate the newer twin spar aluminum chassis is more comfortable, I do find a ton of vibration on the chassis of mine compared to the WR250, which feels so damn smooth.  I do ride quite a bit, usually 20-25 woods rides a year of 4-7hrs each run, even though I'm in pretty decent shape I find that the next day after a long ride I'm really tired in the body, where as my friend who isn't as fit is not as tired, I attribute that to the butter smooth Yamaha Cadillac he rolls on.  I am a bit jealous of those new bikes, I could get one I suppose, its just hard to justify that kind of money when they are new, and I would feel terrible I think everytime I dump the bike on a big rocky climb or it smashes into a bit of tree!

 

I really value the lightness of the CR250, its probablly 220lbs dry now with the extra parts I have on it, near the same as the KTM 200 and 300 with E-Start (that would be pretty nice I must admit) you probably don't barley have to change anything on those but gearing, already proper suspension, big Stator for good headlight, factory kickstand that works awesome, better brakes then my CR250 and that hydraulic clutch is probably a real treat! maybe even a soft seat, oooh I'm getting all excited!  I think the 200 or 250 or 300 would suit me well, we go so slow usually through techincal tree and mud and hill climbs and stuff that acceleration isn't really needed other then for some hill climb grunt and mudpit powa!  Perhaps a bit smoother transition into powerband would be nice as well, the CR is a bit violent, although the low gearing I have has smoothed that out a lot, can get into less trouble now!

 

I think I have to find someway to test ride a KTM and see what its like, I bet I'll love it, riding season is coming to an end here, winter ATV riding time is getting started, smooth trails and all the jumping you could ever want! its not dirt biking, but still not bad!

[Piney Woods]

Other than going up stairs in an apartment building, I cannot think of any use for 12/55 gearing. Your top end must be about 17 mph. ???

[dkbl5]

Other than going up stairs in an apartment building, I cannot think of any use for 12/55 gearing. Your top end must be about 17 mph. ???

So THAT'S  why those stairs always gave me trouble.

[heart_of_darkness]

Forks and triples from a CRF250X will bolt on and be valved from the factory for woods riding.  450x forks will work too.  I don't know if the shocks will swap.

 

Is your FMF pipe a Fatty or Gnarley?

[Chill_MotoX]

I know the crf shock does work on the gen 3 CR frame, you also need to use the crf linkage tho

[Kingsoup]

I will admit the 12-55 is pretty low, I maybe should have gone with 12-53 or something.   The top end at redline in 5th gear is about 80kph now?  Thing is that I rarley ever get the opportunity to get up to speed where I ride anyways, Its all really tight trees and mud holes and really brutal rocky, slippery, hill climbs.  Lots of them I can't go into with a lot of speed as the front will kick and bounce and then its crash city, the ultra low 1st gear keeps the motor up in the Revs right in the power for a really nice slower but fast enough speed for the super vertical long rocky climbs, its also really nice for restarting if I'm like 70% up a horror hill and want to try and keep going!  Its also nice to have in really tight trees I barley have to clutch on and off while moving super slow and it keeps it from stalling (even with my 14oz flywheel weight).

 

This is part of the reason I'd like to goto a 300XC or a 4 stroke, I'd like to have better bottem end torque without having to sacrifice the gearing so much!  Maybe a better rider could do all these things with 13-52 but it drove me crazy, I was clutching constantly and stalling it often.

 

That would be a real nice way to get it perfect, just bolt on the X series bikes suspension, it just starts getting costly, and then you're working your way towards a OEM perfect setup bike like the Husaberg or KTM 300's or like a WR450F (I'm trying to avoid the bigger 4 strokes as weight is always a big issue dragging the bike back around on the hill climbs and stuff)

 

I appreciate the input!!

[Piney Woods]

I will admit the 12-55 is pretty low, I maybe should have gone with 12-53 or something.   The top end at redline in 5th gear is about 80kph now?  Thing is that I rarley ever get the opportunity to get up to speed where I ride anyways, Its all really tight trees and mud holes and really brutal rocky, slippery, hill climbs.  Lots of them I can't go into with a lot of speed as the front will kick and bounce and then its crash city, the ultra low 1st gear keeps the motor up in the Revs right in the power for a really nice slower but fast enough speed for the super vertical long rocky climbs, its also really nice for restarting if I'm like 70% up a horror hill and want to try and keep going!  Its also nice to have in really tight trees I barley have to clutch on and off while moving super slow and it keeps it from stalling (even with my 14oz flywheel weight).

 

This is part of the reason I'd like to goto a 300XC or a 4 stroke, I'd like to have better bottem end torque without having to sacrifice the gearing so much!  Maybe a better rider could do all these things with 13-52 but it drove me crazy, I was clutching constantly and stalling it often.

 

That would be a real nice way to get it perfect, just bolt on the X series bikes suspension, it just starts getting costly, and then you're working your way towards a OEM perfect setup bike like the Husaberg or KTM 300's or like a WR450F (I'm trying to avoid the bigger 4 strokes as weight is always a big issue dragging the bike back around on the hill climbs and stuff)

 

I appreciate the input!!

I think the 300W would work fine for what you describe.