Any recommended adjustments for this FCR (non-mx) while it's out?

[DJCDRZ]

Hey gang.  I'm doing my buddy a solid and cleaning his carb for him (low mileage non-CA E, only runs with choke).  We're at 3,500ft and often ride in the 4,500-5,500ft range.  Without buying a jet kit, is it worth it to swap out any of the jets or adjust the needle (is it adjustable) while I'm in there?

 

Specs:

 

2005 DRZ-E w/slant FCR

Full Yosh RS3

Snorkel removed

3,500-5,500ft elevation

[William1]

Install a BRAND new 45 pilot jet to solve the need for the choke all the time. Then fine adjust the fuel screw for a perfect hot engine idle. If he does not already have an extended fuel screw, get one. The Kientech or R&D flex, no others will fit his bike. 

 

Unless he is complaining of other issues, do not 'fix' what is not broken

[Noble]

OBDXP (stock needle) -5 clip (from top) of 7

45 pilot jet

Stock pilot air jets (60 and 90)

Remove CE.  connect carb nipples with a hose. remove nipple from head and plug with 8mm bolt

200 main air jet (stock)

2.5 turns fuel screw

155 main jet

float level 9-10mm

[Cuchara Red]

Do the Eddie Mod. A search will get it for you.

[DJCDRZ]

Perfect!  Thanks guys!

[DJCDRZ]

OBDXP (stock needle) -5 clip (from top) of 7

45 pilot jet

Stock pilot air jets (60 and 90)

Remove CE.  connect carb nipples with a hose. remove nipple from head and plug with 8mm bolt

200 main air jet (stock)

2.5 turns fuel screw

155 main jet

float level 9-10mm

 

Alright guys, I have done the above and have eliminated the choke issue.  Within 30 secs the bike will run within w/o the choke.  Idles nice!  However, I'm experiencing a huge bog off idle.  It'll practically die if I give it a big blip.  I did not perform the Eddie Mod (didn't wanna start grinding on stuff.  We're 2 weeks away from a big moto trip.)  Test conditions:  3,500ft/51F/70%RH  If it wasn't at operating temp, it was awfully close.  

 

Stock fuel screw position was 1.5 turns out.  2.5 turns way too much?  AP issue?  What do you think?

[Noble]

Bog on a quick blip is no AP or way too much AP.  With an old carb I'm guessing no AP.  Try riding it, It might not be that bad in actual use.

[DJCDRZ]

Bog on a quick blip is no AP or way too much AP.  With an old carb I'm guessing no AP.  Try riding it, It might not be that bad in actual use.

 

I did ride it.  It's just as bad goosing it at 15-20 mph.  It was like hitting the brakes it hesitated so bad.  Couldn't get it to WOT or higher end for that matter...but, it "seems" to run pretty good once the revs are up.  That end of the test has yet to be explored.

[Craigo]

Regards, the bogging....I would have done the Eddie Mod while it was out......

 

Partly tape the air box opening by 1/3 and run it the same , better worse or no difference..?

 

apply the throttle as you would during normal riding, like don't purposely turn the throttle as fast as possible to try a make it bog...

 

All testing (and adjustment to pliot circuit) MUST be done at normal operating temp

[DJCDRZ]

Regards, the bogging....I would have done the Eddie Mod while it was out......

 

Partly tape the air box opening by 1/3 and run it the same , better worse or no difference..?

 

apply the throttle as you would during normal riding, like don't purposely turn the throttle as fast as possible to try a make it bog...

 

All testing (and adjustment to pliot circuit) MUST be done at normal operating temp

 

It's been a crazy couple of days but, I'm back at it.  Yeah, I wanted to do the Eddie Mod but, my buddy wasn't super comfy with defacing the carb - At this time.  Here's what I noticed.  Not a lot happened when I tried to tape off a portion of the 3X3.  All I had was painters tape and did a 50% mask.  So, I took a flap of cardboard and practically blocked the whole opening.  Though the hesitation and bog weren't eliminated, it had greatly reduced the symptoms.  So, where do we go from here?  A different pilot jet?  Aside from that, do the other settings sound right for my application?

 

As always, I appreciate the help!

[Noble]

Need to know if it only bogs during acceleration. Or if it runs crappy at a steady throttle setting.  If you reduce throttle from hard acceleration to a steady speed does it run OK?

 

Since you did not report checking the AP for operation, my guess is still the AP is not working.  The AP normally will deliver fuel for 1 to 3 seconds when the throttle is opened.  The Eddie mod makes the AP only deliver fuel with the throttle in motion.  More delivery over a shorter time.  Grinding the diaphragm is to allow more stroke.  It is not my favorite mod but people seem to like it.  If you do the Eddie mod or not, you should verify the AP is working.

[DJCDRZ]

Need to know if it only bogs during acceleration. Or if it runs crappy at a steady throttle setting.  If you reduce throttle from hard acceleration to a steady speed does it run OK?

 

Since you did not report checking the AP for operation, my guess is still the AP is not working.  The AP normally will deliver fuel for 1 to 3 seconds when the throttle is opened.  The Eddie mod makes the AP only deliver fuel with the throttle in motion.  More delivery over a shorter time.  Grinding the diaphragm is to allow more stroke.  It is not my favorite mod but people seem to like it.  If you do the Eddie mod or not, you should verify the AP is working.

 

I figured since Craigo's test was easy, I'd try it out.  What's the best way to test the AP?  

 

Edit:  Just went out and ran it again.  Runs so much better with the airbox blocked off.  Runs great at steady throttle and does not seem to adversely affect the running quality from accel to steady speed.

Edited September 30, 2013 by DJCDRZ

[Noble]

Take the carb off and operate the throttle (needs to have gas in the float bowl).  Look in to the carb.  When it squirts you in the eye, its working.  If you look in from the inlet side, you can avoid the gas in the eye problem.  Operate the throttle full stroke and time the AP delivery.  No delivery is bad.  Delivery longer then 3 seconds is bad.

[DJCDRZ]

Take the carb off and operate the throttle (needs to have gas in the float bowl).  Look in to the carb.  When it squirts you in the eye, its working.  If you look in from the inlet side, you can avoid the gas in the eye problem.  Operate the throttle full stroke and time the AP delivery.  No delivery is bad.  Delivery longer then 3 seconds is bad.

Update.  Took the carb off again (yay!).  Opened the throttle and a very solid squirt of fuel shot out of the carb.  I left the throttle open, then operated the AP independently...Got a good squirt of fuel there too.  The one thing I'm having trouble understanding is the timing of the squirt.  It is relative to throttle operation.  If the throttle is moving, it's squirting.  If I do I quick full throttle, It'll shoot out a foot.  If I do it slower, I get less fuel and distance, but it still squirts.  It's not like I open the throttle and it continues to spray or something.  So, educate me there.

 

What's the next step here?

Edited October 1, 2013 by DJCDRZ

[Noble]

OK good. Basically the AP squirts when the throttle is moved.  The squirt should start as the movement starts.  The AP is connected to the throttle by a spring so if the throttle gets ahead of the AP, the spring allows some delay.  I really can't tell you where to go from here.  Back a few posts I suggected the bog may be either no AP or too much AP.  Well, now we know it is not no AP.  The AP delivery is not really adjustable.  The start timing can be adjusted but that is about it on this model carb.  The Eddie mod is to wire the linkage together so the spring between the throttle and AP will not move.  This makes the AP more reliant on the throttle motion.  I never thought this was a good idea but I have not experimented with it much either.  Sorry I can't be more help.  I know it is a pain taking this carb off and on all the time troubleshooting in the dark.

 

Post exactly how the carb was set up in your last test ride.  Jets, adjustments, clip positions, AP, float level, CE, everything.  Also why did you start working on this carb in the first place?

[DJCDRZ]

Again, it's my buddy's bike that doesn't see a lot of use.  The carb was in an untouched, factory condition, yet had a full RS3 and the snorkel removed.  I borrowed it in early June to take a couple day ride in the local mountains (5000ft).  It ran okay but, we noticed that it wouldn't idle well and hesitate a bit off the idle.  I assumed it was a partially clogged pilot or sea level jetting at 4-6k.  It didn't hinder me that much so, we pushed through it.  It's been sitting for the past 3 months and we have a desert trip coming up so, I thought it may be a good idea to clean the thing (especially the pilot) and since it was off and open, why not make an attempt to adjust/jet it for elevation?  At this point, it wouldn't idle w/o the choke period.  I hit you up in this thread for advice and here's what I have done:

 

-Removed the CE and jumped the nipples with a hose.

-Went from a 142 main to a 155 main (new)

-Ultrasonically cleaned the 45 pilot and re-installed.

-Cleaned the "other" jet (pilot, 90?) under the float bowl.

-Adjusted the needle clip from #4 to #5 from top (of 7).

-Took the stock fuel screw from 1.5 to 2.5 turns out.

-Did not bother to check the float position.

 

-Temps have been near 50F with moderate-high humidity (not norm for Central Oregon).

-Elevation is 3500'

-After performing the above mods/adjustments, The idle situation is perfect, has solid power, but stumbles/hesitates and can die when the throttle is blipped hard/moderately.  I understand there is some hesitation to be expected with this carb but, this seems somewhat significant.

-With a closed up airbox (side and top, clean filter), the symptoms seemed to lessen enough for me to notice.  Perfect, no.  Less irritating, yeah.

 

Questions:

-Can I do a "half-ass" Eddie Mod without grinding?  Will that do anything to possibly help the situation?  Maybe the AP is delivering too much fuel?  It does squirt a good foot or so when I quickly blip the throttle from 0-full.

-Fuel screw position have anything to do with this?

-Needle clip position causing a problem?

 

That's all I can think of at this time...

[William1]

Read the section by jnicola.

https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/823137-how-to-eliminate-the-bog/

 

 

Based on your comment that covering up part of the opening makes the bike run better, you made it too rich. No doubt, you 'fixed' what was not broken. Put the clip back and the 142 main back in. Retest.

 

Adjust the fuel screw for a perfect hot idle and not just an arbitrary setting.

[Noble]

Well from your post it should run perfect.  All the settings are right.

 

 

Questions:

-Can I do a "half-ass" Eddie Mod without grinding?----I don't think so.  My understanding is you run out of AP travel.  What happens is the AP diaphragm bottoms out before you reach full throttle.  Something may bend or break.

 

Will that do anything to possibly help the situation?-----I do not know.

 

Maybe the AP is delivering too much fuel?-----Maybe.  You can disconnect it completely easy enough. (another carb in/out).  I ran mine without any AP for a while and seemed OK.  What I eventually did was put a slug under the diaphragm to limit travel and reduce AP time and delivery.  Without Eddie mod, the spring in the linkage allowed the AP to stop early with no consequence.

 

-Fuel screw position have anything to do with this?-----Yes, some.  Not a lot

-Needle clip position causing a problem?------ yes, no, maybe.  The standard DXP needle is pretty lean.  Raising the needle (lowering the clip) from -4 to -5 richens it a little and should help.  An EMN needle clip -3 is the preferred performance replacement.  But the DXP-5 should be OK.  You could experiment with -6 and -7 clip positions.

 

In the cleaning process did you clean the needle jet and emulsion tube?  Might give that a try.  And check the float level.  There is a filter screen on the float valve seat.  Could be plugged up. But I would think that would affect fuel delivery everywhere.?????

[DJCDRZ]

Good info from both Noble and William.  Well, I talked to my buddy and he doesn't wanna grind the diaphragm stopper 10 days from our trip.  If we F it up, he's done.  So, we just may have to deal with it.

 

However, help me clarify.  

 

-As I lower the clip on the needle, it enriches...But where?  Low? High? Mid?  Everywhere?

-By going to a larger main, I thought that enriched the top end or higher RPM stuff?

 

William says we may have gone too rich...But, considering my elevation, pipe and airbox, it shouldn't right?  I do understand his testing method though.

[genR8r]

Just a quick question, you mentioned: "-Removed the CE and jumped the nipples with a hose."

Did you also plug the vacuum hole on the motor side of the carb?