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Had a bad crash, and I need help determining if the cause was a suspension problem. Video of crash in description.

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Hello, 

 

I unfortunately hurt myself pretty bad a couple weeks ago.  I had an endo on a relatively small jump and nose cased the back of the landing.  Knocked myself out for 10 sec and fractured my scaphoid.  Surgery is on tuesday.  This particular jump had been giving me problems all night, as I kept getting bucked forward off the rather short and abrupt lip.  I took off sitting down (I think, it's a bit hazy) since the lip is right out of the corner, and the acceleration further compressed the rear suspension.  

 

Now, several of the parents at the track who helped pick up my bike (I am very grateful for their concern and assistance) were telling me that what happened was due to a poorly setup rear suspension.  I posted the vid of the crash on reddit's r/motocross, and there was and argument between two guys, one claiming that it was poor riding technique, and one claiming a rear suspension problem.  I was at first convinced that I did something wrong in my body position, but since several people have said that it could be the rear suspension, I am interested to hear what you all have to say.

 

Before I rode that night, I spent several hours re-lubing and cleaning the rear suspension linkage, and resetting the front and rear suspension to factory settings as specified in the manual.  The previous owner was much heavier than me (I'm about 160 lbs 5'11"), and everything on the suspension was virtually maxed on on stiffness.  The sag remained at 97mm, as I had difficulty getting to the lock ring on the shock, and it was within the acceptable range of 90mm-110mm.

 

I am interested to hear what you all have to say, but please, just don't confuse the hell out of me like they did over at r/motocross :)

 

Link to crash video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGniun85o3k 

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That's a tough one since we can't actually see what the back was doing.  Any kickers on the jump?  Looks sort of like a small quick jump takeoff.  Even if there are no kickers you have to be on the gas all the way until the back tire is clear.  Any let up on the gas leads to problems.

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How about a crash is a crash..... Analyzing it and blaming it on a poor setup that YOU choose only answers one thing..... It was you all along!

It was a poor setup to begin with by the sounds of it but instead of you fixing it before you got hurt, you got hurt and now your fixing it....

Best you can do now is set it up properly for your weight, ability and riding style and when your better, test it, before you try something technical....

Edited by originalmonk

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How about a crash is a crash..... Analyzing it and blaming it on a poor setup that YOU choose only answers one thing..... It was you all along!

It was a poor setup to begin with by the sounds of it but instead of you fixing it before you got hurt, you got hurt and now your fixing it....

Best you can do now is set it up properly for your weight, ability and riding style and when your better, test it, before you try something technical....

If you took the time to read the entire original post, you'll have understood that I spent quite a bit of time on the suspension before that night, setting everything back to the exact settings that the service manual specified.  It is difficult to find a better starting point than that.  Besides re-valving and rebuilding the components, I did all that I feel I responsibly could.    Also, it is likely that the suspension had nothing to do with the crash at all, and that the answer was just poor riding technique.   

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That's a tough one since we can't actually see what the back was doing.  Any kickers on the jump?  Looks sort of like a small quick jump takeoff.  Even if there are no kickers you have to be on the gas all the way until the back tire is clear.  Any let up on the gas leads to problems.

I think I might have an idea of what happened.  I am pretty confident that I gassed it all the way off the takeoff, and yes the lip is pretty sharp, but if you take notice right after I exit the berm, I briefly cut the throttle, then re-apply.  Could this have caused the back end to compress much more than if I had applied smooth throttle all the way through the berm to the takeoff, thus causing the back end to kick up and endo?

Edited by uninc4life

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Its hard from the camera angle to see what your jump really looks like, and with no view from the side cant see what the rear suspension did right there but, if thats the only jump you were having trouble with IMO the technique you used might have been the problem. The lip must not have been nice and smooth and caused it to buck you off over the front also it didnt sound like you had much throttle in it so that was possibly a problem also. Looks like you needed to put more weight rearward and throttle over it and possibly be a gear lower, keeping the front end high the whole time. Landing on the back wheel would have obviously been better, I know thats easy to say now! Hope you heal up fast! 

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From the video it seems as if your front wheel did not impact the jump. When this happens you tend to endo. A good example is James stewart at daytona a few years ago when he wheelied a jump, causing him to endo. If you watch the video you can see there seems to be no impact (looking at the front fender) when your bike hits the jump. You either had the front off the ground or the power was "floating" the front wheel. You need to have the front wheel impact the jump to make your suspension compress and "loft" you and the bike into the air. The rear impacted just fine but there was not a balancing force on the other end. Thus you crashed in an endo fashion.

 

Also, from the shadows it looks like your front was set up very soft for your speed and or weight.

 

Like everyone else has posted, we need to see the entire bike in the video and not just the helmet cam. The third person view would tell us a lot more.

 

I hope you heal well.

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From the video it seems as if your front wheel did not impact the jump. When this happens you tend to endo. A good example is James stewart at daytona a few years ago when he wheelied a jump, causing him to endo. If you watch the video you can see there seems to be no impact (looking at the front fender) when your bike hits the jump. You either had the front off the ground or the power was "floating" the front wheel. You need to have the front wheel impact the jump to make your suspension compress and "loft" you and the bike into the air. The rear impacted just fine but there was not a balancing force on the other end. Thus you crashed in an endo fashion.

 

Also, from the shadows it looks like your front was set up very soft for your speed and or weight.

 

Like everyone else has posted, we need to see the entire bike in the video and not just the helmet cam. The third person view would tell us a lot more.

 

I hope you heal well.

Unfortunately, no third person view is available :(  The front and rear suspension was relatively backed out, but again that is what the manual specified.  If honestly fared pretty well throughout the rest of the course, and I was having a pretty fun night up until my endo.  i was in second gear going around that berm, but I think that fact that i was carrying little speed was a contributing problem.  Every time I hit that lip slowly and intentionally landed in the center I felt perfectly fine.  The bike always would stay level to ground.  The nose-in would only occur when I was giving it lots of throttle out of that turn trying to make sufficient speed.  Here is a vide from earlier in the day clearing the jump successfully, but still pitching forward a bit before the landing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMhDzr__Blc

Edited by uninc4life

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It's a combo of both....what's your sag? That bike is plopping down if clickers are set and sag is good get a revalve

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If you took the time to read the entire original post, you'll have understood that I spent quite a bit of time on the suspension before that night, setting everything back to the exact settings that the service manual specified.  It is difficult to find a better starting point than that.  Besides re-valving and rebuilding the components, I did all that I feel I responsibly could.    Also, it is likely that the suspension had nothing to do with the crash at all, and that the answer was just poor riding technique.    

 

If you know it was poor technique, why are you asking about suspension? Besides all that, if the jump was giving you problems why where you hitting it with "bad" suspension or with a poor technique?

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Its absolutely not bad suspension, if it was, then the other jumps would be even more impossible as some of them are much longer.

No, this is a case of technique AND an effed up lip on the jump face. That jump looks very tiny on camera and the lip looks almost non-existant. For those types of jumps, you really need to preload the bike pretty hard in order to get the rebound to clear it. Plus, you were coming off the corner prior to the jump very slowly, so you didn't have good speed, you weren't preloading AND the lip was pretty much non-existant.

So when you're all healed up, I'd focus on learning how to preload properly and hit that jump with every single ounce of energy you've got!

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Its absolutely not bad suspension, if it was, then the other jumps would be even more impossible as some of them are much longer.

No, this is a case of technique AND an effed up lip on the jump face. That jump looks very tiny on camera and the lip looks almost non-existant. For those types of jumps, you really need to preload the bike pretty hard in order to get the rebound to clear it. Plus, you were coming off the corner prior to the jump very slowly, so you didn't have good speed, you weren't preloading AND the lip was pretty much non-existant.

So when you're all healed up, I'd focus on learning how to preload properly and hit that jump with every single ounce of energy you've got!

Yeah, I'd agree.  It would be nice if the lip had been a bit longer, and you aren't the first person the mention preload.  

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 Here is a vide from earlier in the day clearing the jump successfully, but still pitching forward a bit before the landing.

 

Clearing in the second video?  Seems like you still need more speed.  Looking at the suspension, I would check what springs you have in the bike seeing you say the previous owner was quite heavier than you.

Good luck with the recovery.

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Not the suspension.

 

While the suspension is obviously not properly setup for you, all a poor suspension does is cause you to go slower. It does not 'make you crash'. If you choose to ride beyond your capability, do not look elsewhere for the cause.

 

Pitching forward is rider technique. Bottoming is suspension, as is chattering/excessive wheelspin.

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If you took the time to read the entire original post, you'll have understood that I spent quite a bit of time on the suspension before that night, setting everything back to the exact settings that the service manual specified.  It is difficult to find a better starting point than that.  Besides re-valving and rebuilding the components, I did all that I feel I responsibly could.    Also, it is likely that the suspension had nothing to do with the crash at all, and that the answer was just poor riding technique.   

I have to disagree just a little. Putting the susp to the manuals suggested settings is just the START of what you can do with stock susp. I don't know about the suzy manual but if need be get a Honda manual and study the susp adjustment section. Lots of improvement can be made very inexpensively. Read read read, test test test, practice practice practice. Then start over, it never ends.

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*deleted by poster for clarity

 

 

Edited by PSD_Sun

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Your jumping technique is rough all around and like Tye said, you were not being endoed off every jump so blaming the suspension for anything seems silly..

 

This was a clear case of rider error.

 

If you back the rebound out of your rear suspension a whole bunch, the bike will endo everywhere as the beck end will act like a pogo. Of course it will do that everywhere.

 

Good luck and heal up fast.

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Your jumping technique is rough all around and like Tye said, you were not being endoed off every jump so blaming the suspension for anything seems silly..

 

This was a clear case of rider error.

 

If you back the rebound out of your rear suspension a whole bunch, the bike will endo everywhere as the beck end will act like a pogo. Of course it will do that everywhere.

 

Good luck and heal up fast.

Well, it is good to know that the suspension is not really to blame here.  As for riding technique, on the short steep jumps like the the one I went down on, is it better to keep my weight behind center while taking off?  Also, wouldn't backing the rebound out make the rebound less like a pogo stick?  

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