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2014 KTM 500EXC - Need more bark (aka: power)

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Huh, every '14 I've seen it just "fell" out. ;)

 

That's weird.  I wonder if it's something about the '14's.  Mine suffered some sort of catastrophic digital failure, and the ECU's 1's and 0's have all been scrambled.

 

I think that it might have happened as I was loading it onto my trailer.  There must have been some sort of a electromagnetic field that was created by the LED lights that I have on my trailer.  That's the only thing that I can figure out that it could be.

 

I haven't really complained to my dealer, though, because it has more power now.  ;)

 

CADman_KS

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KTM uses a Krizman style arrestor which is not particularly restrictive. 

 

 

It is my understanding that the exhausts in the newer FI bikes now use an internal screen type spark arrestor and not the Krizman type as used in the pre 2012 bikes.  That is too bad as the Krisman type was very effective, relatively free-breathing and not too loud.

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May be, I haven't taken the new one completely apart. There's an extra screen on the inlet the old mufflers didn't have. Playing around with the full Akro setup on a dyno I didn't see enough difference to justify the cost.

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I took the end cap of my 14 and could not see an easy way to take the the restrictive parts out with out cutting a bunch of stuff out. Bought an fmf 4.1 can and a programmer. I don't think it is any louder. I'm still on break in time so I'm not even sure if it helped at all.

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I have a350 exc...first thing is gearing. I went from,14/45 to 12/50. Big improvement on trails. The excs have easy too long gearing.

 

I ride in Colorado. Climbing bowling balls up the continental divide is "unique".

Edited by jmeyer99

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I have a350 exc...first thing is gearing. I went from,14/45 to 12/50. Big improvement on trails. The excs have easy too long gearing.

WOW!!! That's super low!!!!

CADman_KS

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The "black box" as you call it is the same just different maps. You want "motocross" feeling you purchased the wrong bike.

 

Load the EU map, mechanically advance the timing slightly, pull the stupid screen out of the back of the muffler and call it good.

how do you mechanically advance the timing? ignition or camshaft?

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how do you mechanically advance the timing? ignition or camshaft?

I'm paranoid about playing with the cams. You can advance the ignition a bit by traditional means. I'd be a touch careful with this to so you don't get preignition.

 

My understanding is if you have the EU map loaded the UST will work. I believe you can adjust timing with the UST. I have the XC1 which allows a wider latitude of adjustments but honestly I don't see much of a difference no matter how I tune it versus the EU map. Access to a dyno would make all of this quite easier.

 

The 500 is much like the old 400, it feels like it doesn't have the power the 450 and some others have because of how smooth it is. I don't have a clue as to how to make it feel like it has a good midrange hit.

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. ..

 

The 500 is much like the old 400, it feels like it doesn't have the power the 450 and some others have because of how smooth it is. I don't have a clue as to how to make it feel like it has a good midrange hit.

 

I have only driven ONE KTM in my life, and it's the 500 EXC I currently own. 

 

I don't know if this is a good comparison or not either, but it's one that I know so I'll make it.

 

I own diesels, and have owned several.  People think that they are slow and have no power.  But, in reality, they are very far from that. 

 

The last diesel that we owned was a Mercedes, and it would go from 0-60 in 6.5, so it wasn't slow.  BUT, it never really "felt" like it was that fast.  And the reason that it didn't was because it made power effortlessly.  Effortless power is the best way that I can think of to describe the power that diesels make.  You can argue that all you want, and it doesn't really matter.

 

But, in describing the power that the 500 makes, I think that the word "effortlessly" really sums it up in one word.  It may not be a rocket, but it does get up move, but it never really "feels" like it's wrapped up to the max to make that power, so it's deceptive in how fast it is, and how much power it has/makes.  And, when you are climbing or lugging with it, it just makes power effortlessly.  You don't have to wring it out to get it to work.

 

Maybe this is a bad analogy or comparison, but it's about the best way that I can describe it...   YMMV

 

CADman_KS

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The "black box" as you call it is the same just different maps. You want "motocross" feeling you purchased the wrong bike.

 

Load the EU map, mechanically advance the timing slightly, pull the stupid screen out of the back of the muffler and call it good.

 

 

  I'd  also suggest looking into the possibility of using he sxf ign rotar and stator. Not sure if the crank taper is the same or if the rotars are even differant but reducing rotating mass will certainly help the engine spool up faster.

Edited by widebear

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  I'd  also suggest looking into the possibility of using he sxf ign rotar and stator. Not sure if the crank taper is the same or if the rotars are even differant but reducing rotating mass will certainly help the engine spool up faster.

I asked around about that and haven't found an answer yet.

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Those 500's are deceptively fast. In a third gear roll on against my cammed rfs 570 the stock  un mapped and un corked five hundred ate it alive up top. In no small part due I'm sure to the massive throttle body the five hundred uses as  compared to the wimpy 39 mm fcr carb thats on my bike now. I'm sure that situation will be rectified somewhat  upon the much anticipated arrival of my new  to me 41 mm  sxf carb thats in transit as we speak.

Edited by widebear

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Those 500's are deceptively fast. In a third gear roll on against my cammed rfs 570 the stock un mapped and un corked five hundred ate it alive up top. In no small part due I'm sure to the massive throttle body the five hundred uses as compared to the wimpy 39 mm fcr carb thats on my bike now. I'm sure that situation will be rectified somewhat upon the much anticipated arrival of my new to me 41mm dxf carb thats in transit as we speak.

That was my point in my comparison. Just because it doesn't sound like it's fast and wrapped up to the max, that doesn't mean that it's not fast and powerless...

CADman_KS

Edited by cadman_ks
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Those 500's are deceptively fast. In a third gear roll on against my cammed rfs 570 the stock  un mapped and un corked five hundred ate it alive up top. In no small part due I'm sure to the massive throttle body the five hundred uses as  compared to the wimpy 39 mm fcr carb thats on my bike now. I'm sure that situation will be rectified somewhat  upon the much anticipated arrival of my new  to me 41 mm  sxf carb thats in transit as we speak.

I wonder how the Canadian EXCs are setup? They might already be somewhat desmogged compared to USA.

Also depending on carb/cam combo a 570 RFS is more mid then top-end.

 

Bruce

Edited by BDM

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The engine performance video is nothing but an ad for the "Magic mod." Laughable.

 

Also no exhaust has shown much of a difference over stock. There's endless dyno runs posted on the web showing this. Load the EU map and tweak the timing a bit. Eventually there will be cams and other performance parts out.

 

It's unfortunate that a moderator would call something laughable when it is clear that he has never tested a bike that has had this modification.  I can speak first-hand that the magic mod plus an FMF 4.1 makes a night and day difference on the 2014 500exc.  

 

And taking a dremel to uncork the stock exhaust is a one-way ticket to a ruined exhaust.  If the stocker is going by the wayside for an after market unit, at least you could sell it.  It's welded in place for a reason.

 

As a moderator, you should know that If one doesn't know what one is talking about, then it's not a particularly helpful for that person to write something regardless.  

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It's unfortunate that a moderator would call something laughable when it is clear that he has never tested a bike that has had this modification.  I can speak first-hand that the magic mod plus an FMF 4.1 makes a night and day difference on the 2014 500exc.  

 

And taking a dremel to uncork the stock exhaust is a one-way ticket to a ruined exhaust.  If the stocker is going by the wayside for an after market unit, at least you could sell it.  It's welded in place for a reason.

 

As a moderator, you should know that If one doesn't know what one is talking about, then it's not a particularly helpful for that person to write something regardless.  

I have no doubt that is absolutely true and have never said anything to the contrary about the "Magic Mod."

 

That being said, I know FI systems inside out, they're much simpler than modern carbs. Now, it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to cure the lean conditions and flame out issues on the 500exc unless you increase fueling or restrict air flow. There's only a few ways this can be done without remapping the ECU. Restrict air flow changing the AF ratio is one way. This of course is not what anybody would do. This leaves us with adjusting the TPS or or tricking the ECU into thinking the bike is at a lower altitude thereby increasing the fuel ratio. Another way would be to increase fuel pressure since it's an open loop system but none of these parts are on the throttle body. It's slightly possible they do something to the fuel injector but only an idiot would knowingly run one without an identical spare.

 

This is just very basic mechanics. If you can't remap your ECU then adjust TPS to .640 to .645 or so for the stock exhaust without the screen, around .650 to .655 if you have the  FMF. The flameouts and lean condition will be gone, exactly like what the Magic Mod does. The EU map is even more desirable since there's some timing differences, something else any throttle body modifications cannot do. Generally you can keep the stock TPS setting even with the FMF using the EU map. Also a number of bikes were delivered with TPS off slightly. Before you do anything it should be verified, something apparently very few wish to do. A prudent rider would check the FP if they're having unusual lean conditions, also something few do. On another note if your modified throttle body fails and you have to repair it, what do you do to prevent possible damage to your bike? If they jacked with the TPS, MAP or something and you replaced one of the components using stock values with an unrestricted exhaust you might well lead to damaging your bike. If you do remap your ECU then what is going to happen with the modified TB? Too rich then? You could really wind up with a mess. From a practical standpoint one should NEVER have anything done to your bike that nobody has any idea of what it was. I personally would not touch somebody's bike that had the Magic Mod if it needed repair for the very reason of potential liability unless I knew exactly what they did. No prudent mechanic would.

 

I'll stand by my assertions on this. If I'm wrong then they're free to rebut my post. So far they have not and further were rather hostile when I talked to them about the mods. Do you see Trailtech, Ricky Stator or any of them hiding what they do? I can rewind a stator just as they can. I don't do it unless it's one that I can't buy. Magic Mod has nothing to hide unless it's what I think it is which anybody could easily do. I can't think of any other industry representatives that have posted on TT that haven't generally been pretty open and quite helpful to our members. :thumbsup:

 

Oh, the screen at the very end is apparently for EPA noise regulations. The earlier ones unscrewed, the new ones don't. One guy on ktmtalk actually claimed his fell out (likely true, mine was barely hand tight) and was looking for another one because of the Cali DMV or something. Now, how this could possibly "ruin" your exhaust if you remove it is beyond me. Maybe some California CARB freak or ranger might give you a ticket or something if you remove it but most of us aren't worried. 

 

PS: Moderators are nothing but members themselves that enforce board rules as laid out by the owners. This doesn't give us any more or less rights to post freely than any other member nor does it imply we have any greater or less knowledge on a particular topic. Just as you, others may choose to believe or not believe what any other member has to say.  The only members that you might give a bit more credence to because of their status are the ones with "Insider" under their names. These are usually industry guys, engineers or the like. :)

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Roughly same peak hp (52-54) but ktm does it from 8000-9000, kx from 8500-9500, neither engine can be soft with that kind of power, again I have both and I ride both, differences in power are minor. Maybe the exc is slightly softer by comparison.

The EXC and XCW are not tuned the same.  I have a 14 500 XCW (no emissions, 13:52) and it is nearly unmanageable.  Also, at least for the XCW, the spark arrestor screen is held in with a screw collar.

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The magic mod in the video does work pretty well with a slip on exhaust. Although my comparison is with the 350, I can't think but good results for the 500 as well. To me the mod made it rev out faster. The exhaust on the bike I rode was a 4.1 FMF lip on. 

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