Why not more XR/CR hybrids?

Just looking at Winginit's awesome build and seeing the CR front end with the XR motor got me wondering why there aren't more XR motors in CR frames? Not necessarily the perimeter frames, though I'd guess that would be the "cool" factor that would drive demand if there were, which apparently there isn't.  

 I understand the perimeter frame makes it a real challenge and you don't want to create a bike you can't work on.

I know Service Honda made/makes one, but how come there aren't more garage wrenches building such a bike?  

Not many interested in paying 10k for something like that.

 

Is it because we're "old school" and used to XR's weighing a ton and having crap suspension? Because so many of us have already fixed up our XR's?  
 

  Just seems like with all the customizing, USD front ends, etc that goes on with these bikes, that SOMEONE would be sticking an XR400 motor in a CR frame on their own. 

 I've seen a few builds, but can't remember anything recently on here about one.

Or maybe it was done enough to determine that its just too much of a PITA???

 

 A decade or more ago, putting XR200 motors in CR125 frames was a popular swap and a buddy did one that he still has. 
It's a wonderful bike. 

 

 With so many of these bikes probably intended to "keep forever at this point", seems like creating an ultimate beast would be not a rare occurance. ???

 

Some really talented guys here. 

Edited by MindBlower

I am not aware of a CR frame that would accept my XR4 engine. I have thought of sticking it in a KTM or Husky 4stk frame, anyone try that? 

The thing I never really understood is the weight complaint. 250s really aren't that heavy. My '95 stock spec is 229 dry, I know that is a little embellished, but still. Aren't 450s that much or heavier? I never feel like mine is that bad compared to my 2006 Husqvarna TC250, which is a really light bike.

There was a really nice XR 250 with Ohlins fork and shock with a pumper carb being raced by a TT member. Add a 280 or 300 kit and you migh have the ultimate XR. Search and you might find the specs. It's posted here. He went to a CRF250X when they came out.

When Canondale went bankrupt, there was a quantity of Ohlins forks and shocks that were sold for cheap. I wasn't one of the luck ones.

Edited by Kev_XR

I think its just because they seemingly last forever, and I'm not personally interested in messing around with anything that I dont absolutely have to. If I wanted or had a use for a MX bike, I would have bought one. My xr250 does wonderful for what I use it for. Mostly road, but still very capable off road when I have the desire to. At the very least it is "good enough" which is fine by me.

When you make the Xr250>long/tall/usd forks.Then it is as slow as the cr250 on hard trails.BTR

Probably better off tuning a CR engine for the trail then trying to shoe horn a RFVC into a CR frame. Just my $.02.

Edited by jg83

I guess it is like Coop355 eluded to: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. If you were going to race it, I guess it would make sense, but there are better bikes for racing to start with. The XR is what it is, and for what it does best, the suspension is "good enough" IMO. That's not to say I wouldn't enjoy your (or anyone else's) step by step progress report on a conversion!

If I had a spare XR and an MX frame sitting here, I definitely might give it a shot. I will admit I've already taken measurements to see if the 400 engine would fit in my wife's YZF frame.... It won't.

There was a couple REALLY nice looking 87-88 era CR 250's on eBay last week. They were to pretty to cut up but I would think around that year would give you the best chance of making one. Steel frame, conventional forks and looks like more room for the motor.

In my opinion it really would not be worth the effort. All the trouble installing a XR motor into a CR frame would be lost because the bike would still be much slower than a stock CRF and would generate no benefit other than reliability. And it would not be THAT much lighter but may handle better depending on who did the swap. It would be cool though, like all those CR500AF monsters.

Well I can tell you the 200/CR hybrid is light years better than the XR200, which is a pretty dang good trail bike.  Suspension works EVERYWHERE and needing it or not needing it is really nothing more than never having experienced it.   ;)
If you have, you want it all the time.

CRF's aren't the same thing. Not many that love XR's want much to do with CRF's. (working on bikes)

The whole point would be getting the bullet proof XR motor in a lighter weight setup with vastly better suspension. 

And I didn't specifiy, but was talking 400, not the 250, so more of a weight difference. 

Edited by MindBlower

Well I can tell you the 200/CR hybrid is light years better than the XR200, which is a pretty dang good trail bike.  Suspension works EVERYWHERE and needing it or not needing it is really nothing more than never having experienced it.   ;)

If you have, you want it all the time.

CRF's aren't the same thing. Not many that love XR's want much to do with CRF's. (working on bikes)

The whole point would be getting the bullet proof XR motor in a lighter weight setup with vastly better suspension. 

And I didn't specifiy, but was talking 400, not the 250, so more of a weight difference. 

 

I would love to follow a build thread like that.  And it probably would be great fun too, for a guy that has the tools and know how..  So if you go for it, please start a threat with lots of pics… :smirk:  :smirk:

 

That said, the XR4 is one outstanding trailbike.  The suspension is pretty good after proper setup (good for trail riding, not racing).   You could drop a few kilos, but  not many.  Personally, I don’t  feel a big difference if my fuel tank is full or not.   In 1996 it made sense to build high performance XR4’s , and even race them.  But now a days, all dealerships are full of hyper performance racebikes.  I guess trail riders like XR4’s as they are, and racers have moved on.

 

So in short IMHO it makes little sense to build up a hybrid like that. But then  dirtbikes make no sense in general… it is all about fun.  And IMHO the XR4 engine is a gem.  For rough trails it is among the best ever, way better than most high strung, high rpm modern race engines.

Have a friend with an 80s cr125 frame holding an XR200 motor. Works really well, but the kicker hits the footpeg and makes it a little tough to start sometimes.

Few years back,rode with a guy.Had a cr125 (1987) 95 xr250(305cc) worked great,but the late.Crf 450,with xr4 motor for single track.Forget it. I had a BBR xr440.Just like the CRF,again too tall,too long,for single track.For woops or track worked good.

I would love to follow a build thread like that.  And it probably would be great fun too, for a guy that has the tools and know how..  So if you go for it, please start a threat with lots of pics… :smirk:  :smirk:

 

That said, the XR4 is one outstanding trailbike.  The suspension is pretty good after proper setup (good for trail riding, not racing).   You could drop a few kilos, but  not many.  Personally, I don’t  feel a big difference if my fuel tank is full or not.   In 1996 it made sense to build high performance XR4’s , and even race them.  But now a days, all dealerships are full of hyper performance racebikes.  I guess trail riders like XR4’s as they are, and racers have moved on.

 

So in short IMHO it makes little sense to build up a hybrid like that. But then  dirtbikes make no sense in general… it is all about fun.  And IMHO the XR4 engine is a gem.  For rough trails it is among the best ever, way better than most high strung, high rpm modern race engines.

 

I totally get the "not a need" part.  I love mine, it can do a lot more things than I can.   ;)

 I'm just asking from the realm of all the talented guys here and all the modifications that get done in the name of  "ultimate xr" or whatever it is we love about our bike and tricking it out.   :)

I have no skills for a job like that!  I watch you guys that do with great envy.  

i think a 400 in a light looking, CR frame for pure off road fun would be a bitching bike.  

And a keep it forever bike.

That's all.  LOL

Edited by MindBlower

I totally get the "not a need" part.  I love mine, it can do a lot more things than I can.   ;)

 I'm just asking from the realm of all the talented guys here and all the modifications that get done in the name of  "ultimate xr" or whatever it is we love about our bike and tricking it out.   :)

I have no skills for a job like that!  I watch you guys that do with great envy.  

i think a 400 in a light looking, CR frame for pure off road fun would be a bitching bike.  

And a keep it forever bike.

That's all.  LOL

 

 

+1. That would be a fun project and a fun bike IMO.

 

I always thought this was bad ass. ATK frame for XR600 motor.

 

91-xratk.gif

Edited by michigan400

+1. That would be a fun project and a fun bike IMO.

 

I always thought this was bad ass. ATK frame for XR600 motor.

 

91-xratk.gif

 

 

Oh He!! yes.  I actually saw one of those for sale (no motor) a few years back.  I was very interested but didn't say "sold" immediately and it did.  I was trying to read and see HOW good the suspension was before I jumped and someone that did know did jump.  THink it was $2000, rolling chassis.

Putting the xr motor in a cr frame would loose the extra oil that the bike gets from having an oil sump frame. Plus is it the frame that's really the weight issue or is an air cooled 6 speed motor what's heavier. Not including the larger gas tank where as a cr has a significantly smaller tank. Although inverted forks would be nice. They should remake the xr with the same motor but better suspension and fuel injection..... Getting hot an bothered just thinking of a modern day 2014 Xr250r

Putting the xr motor in a cr frame would loose the extra oil that the bike gets from having an oil sump frame....

This is why I have been eyeballing my wife's YZF. Same frame setup, just smaller. 

Putting the xr motor in a cr frame would loose the extra oil that the bike gets from having an oil sump frame. Plus is it the frame that's really the weight issue or is an air cooled 6 speed motor what's heavier. Not including the larger gas tank where as a cr has a significantly smaller tank. Although inverted forks would be nice. They should remake the xr with the same motor but better suspension and fuel injection..... Getting hot an bothered just thinking of a modern day 2014 Xr250r

 Good point about the oil, something would have to be done about that.  To me it's less the weight than the suspension and uber-light handling.  I"m sure the XR motor is a lot heavier, but more weight lets  the otherwise too stiff suspension work for us 200lb+ guys, without having to send the forks off for re-tuning.   ;)

 

 CR frames/seat/tank/ etc just feel so much "racier" Thinner, lighter, etc   And look it.   The XR200 is a much light motor than the 400, but still heavier than a 125 2 smoke, yet the bike still feels completley like you're on a CR.  

 

I don't know how to explain it if you haven't been on one. If you have and picture a torquey 4 stroke motor it makes you smile. (coming from XR guys, the 2 stroke guy calls it a waste of a good CR chassis) LOL

Edited by MindBlower

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