Overleaning bike

I find myself constanly overleaning my bike at corners. Actually I find it faster way to ride corners, but when watching pros they are sitting almost at same angle as their bike is.

Deep ruts is no problem but when riding flat corners or slippery ones its almost impossible to ride aggressive and lean with the bike, because when you loose traction from rear its hard to keep in control. Thats when I find my self just overleaning and trying to drift the corner.

 

Only problem I find is that I cant use my rear brake at left hand turn, when my bike is overleaned, because my weight is so much at the right peg.

 

Just thinking physics and trying to figure whats the benefit of leaning with the bike. Overleaning must have come from years of free riding where drifting is way to go :ride:

Ruts leaning is needed and some some berms.  On hard pack you really cant lean it and thats why you never really see the guys in that era do it,  its really a new thing since the tracks are more man made now with the loam , ruts can build in the corners which allow you to lean and carry more speed.  Depends on the track,  not all tracks need you to lean over much.

When you lean the bike and you have grip in order to keep that lean, then you will go around the corner faster then if you don't lean the bike. "Flat tracking" is going around the corner without much lean, using the rear wheel to steer. As pointed out above, todays ultra grippy and rutted tracks allow us to have greater lean angles and henceforth, more SPEED through a corner.

Its one of the biggest conundrums about corner speed. The quicker you go, the more force is put into your tires, the more grip you have, the quicker you can go. ;)

Overleaning allows you to adjust the angle of inclincation of the bike faster.  Going fast around flat or wide bermed corners is not about 'leaning more' or 'leaning less'.  It is about developing a natural body feel and feedback loop to adjust the bike to maintain grip.  This sometime means more lean.  It sometimes means less.  The quicker you can adjust to these changes...the better.  When you need to very quickly increase the lean angle of the bike, the only way to do it is to overlean... you push the bike down and away to the inside of the corner while your body sort of stays in place.  You almost form a pivot point between your body and the bike at the seat corner.  If you always keep you body in line with the bike, you can not respond as fast. 

 

In ruts, rapid changes in grip and lean angle are not as important.  This is why you see riders pretty much stay in line with the bike axis in ruts.  Changes in throttle are the more effective tool to stay in balance in a deep rut because you are not on the edge of the tire.  Anticipation, tracking and smoothness are important.  The geometry of the rut, and your entry speed will determine the lean angle.  As you get faster, you will calibrate your entry and initial lean angle to suit.  You will get the lean right going in..and then use the throttle to fine tune as you progress throught the rut and turn.

 

Flat and wide bermed corners are different.  You have to adjust in ways that sometimes require you to very quickly change the bike lean angle a lot.  To do that...you almost HAVE to over lean.  Your comment about weighting the footpeg is also super important.  The real benefit of weighting the outside peg is that it allows you to adjust the bike lean and geometry under you faster. You form a load path triangle between your outside foot on the peg and your hands on the bars.  You unweight the seat.  This allows you to adjust the bike under you faster.  Comments about weighting the outside peg lowering your CG are pure nonsense.  In fact...weighting your peg enough that you unweight the seat RAISES your CG.  The seat is not a rock.  It is springy.  So..you only way you can get weight off it...it to raise your butt...=higher CG (albeit very marginally...maybe eigths of an inch MAX.)  No...the real manner in which weighting the peg increases cornering speed is that it improves your ability to adjust and react...which as you get faster...you do automatically.  From a loading standpoint...all that weighting the footpeg does is create an alternate load path through the bike frame.  Instead of forces and moments going through the seat and subframe to the frame and to the axles...it travels via a different route, but the overall loads do not change unless the geometry of the body on the bike changes.   Weighting the peg has to do with improvement in rider to bike interface.  That fact that you noted that overleaning and weighting the peg are related means you have a good feel for what is going on.  Weighting the peg in fact makes overleaning (bike leaned more than body....to the point you are sitting on the side of the seat) much easier and faster....

 

If you sit in a chair and pull up on your right knee and push down on your left knee with your right and left hands...the legs of the chair do not see any weight transfer.  When you weight the peg...you do NOTHING to change the loads on the parts of the the bike that determine how it handles (suspension, tires, etc).  The net forces and moments that act on the tire contact patches do not change becuase you created a different load path.

Edited by Blutarsky

Overleaning allows you to adjust the angle of inclincation of the bike faster.  Going fast around flat or wide bermed corners is not about 'leaning more' or 'leaning less'.  It is about developing a natural body feel and feedback loop to adjust the bike to maintain grip.  This sometime means more lean.  It sometimes means less.  The quicker you can adjust to these changes...the better.  When you need to very quickly increase the lean angle of the bike, the only way to do it is to overlean... you push the bike down and away to the inside of the corner while your body sort of stays in place.  You almost form a pivot point between your body and the bike at the seat corner.  If you always keep you body in line with the bike, you can not respond as fast. 

 

In ruts, rapid changes in grip and lean angle are not as important.  This is why you see riders pretty much stay in line with the bike axis in ruts.  Changes in throttle are the more effective tool to stay in balance in a deep rut because you are not on the edge of the tire.  Anticipation, tracking and smoothness are important.  The geometry of the rut, and your entry speed will determine the lean angle.  As you get faster, you will calibrate your entry and initial lean angle to suit.  You will get the lean right going in..and then use the throttle to fine tune as you progress throught the rut and turn.

 

Flat and wide bermed corners are different.  You have to adjust in ways that sometimes require you to very quickly change the bike lean angle a lot.  To do that...you almost HAVE to over lean.  Your comment about weighting the footpeg is also super important.  The real benefit of weighting the outside peg is that it allows you to adjust the bike lean and geometry under you faster. You form a load path triangle between your outside foot on the peg and your hands on the bars.  You unweight the seat.  This allows you to adjust the bike under you faster.  Comments about weighting the outside peg lowering your CG are pure nonsense.  In fact...weighting your peg enough that you unweight the seat RAISES your CG.  The seat is not a rock.  It is springy.  So..you only way you can get weight off it...it to raise your butt...=higher CG (albeit very marginally...maybe eigths of an inch MAX.)  No...the real manner in which weighting the peg increases cornering speed is that it improves your ability to adjust and react...which as you get faster...you do automatically.  From a loading standpoint...all that weighting the footpeg does is create an alternate load path through the bike frame.  Instead of forces and moments going through the seat and subframe to the frame and to the axles...it travels via a different route, but the overall loads do not change unless the geometry of the body on the bike changes.   Weighting the peg has to do with improvement in rider to bike interface.  That fact that you noted that overleaning and weighting the peg are related means you have a good feel for what is going on.  Weighting the peg in fact makes overleaning (bike leaned more than body....to the point you are sitting on the side of the seat) much easier and faster....

 

If you sit in a chair and pull up on your right knee and push down on your left knee with your right and left hands...the legs of the chair do not see any weight transfer.  When you weight the peg...you do NOTHING to change the loads on the parts of the the bike that determine how it handles (suspension, tires, etc).  The net forces and moments that act on the tire contact patches do not change becuase you created a different load path.

Very well explained!

Thanks blutarsky for all your educated posts here... this actually helped me to get faster and more confident in certain turns recently... without even having asked for that! I'm about starting to really enjoy cornering... haha

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