Crank seal?

I have a 99 ktm 250exc 2 stroke and I have been getting excessive spooge (oil dripping out of exhaust) for a while, so bad its running all the way down the silencer and drips on the swingarm. i have tried jetting, repacked the silencer and have tried different premix oil ratios and different oil (im running amsoil interceptor 50:1) and nothing has seemed to help. The bike runs great, and had the top end rebuilt recently. The bike seems like it may smoke a little more then usual..but it is my first 2 stroke, so im not sure. Could this be a bad right side crankshaft seal, causing the bike to suck in tranny fluid, causing excess spooge? Do you have to split the cases to do this job, I have heard u don't? Being a 1999 could the crank seal possibly be worn out from being old, or does this mean my crank is bad causing it to wear out, although there is no signs of a bad crank? I would like to know what's going on? Thanks.

have you checked the tranny fluid? fill it up and go ride for a couple hours then recheck it, if its low and you don't have any leaks it the crank seal, not sure about if you have to split the cases on a 250, I know on my 02 200 you don't have to.  when you have the seal out you can check the crank bearing for play by seein if the crank moves up and down.

As Tom mentioned, check the tranny fluid after a ride.  If it is low and very black you probably have a bad seal.  I recently changed mine and you do not need to split the case. 

 

One tip though, order the collar with the seal.  I only had a new seal on hand when I did mine and the collar was also very worn down and should have been replaced.

Edited by MotoX178

Thanks for the responses!

Since I had to rip into my bike today here are pictures of the seal.  Not bad at all, the worst part is removing the clutch basket and the drive gear (reverse threads!).  Also another thing I found... replace the lock washer on the drive gear, the nut on mine came loose and upon inspection I found the lock washer was doing absolutely nothing.

 

IMG_20131004_192108_zps3ffbff45.jpg

 

 

IMG_20131004_192157_zpsf566efa3.jpg

man i almost said my crank threads are reverse threads, sorry about that,

Thanks guys, I'm gunna check mine tomorrow. One other question, what causes these seals to go bad?

Thanks guys, I'm gunna check mine tomorrow. One other question, what causes these seals to go bad?

 

Just normal wear, also the collar becomes grooved and the tolerances open up.  I'll try to get a picture of the collar up for you so you can see the wear on it.

have you checked the tranny fluid? fill it up and go ride for a couple hours then recheck it, 

Be careful of useing the check bolt. Many people have stripped them.

 

You say that you have tried jetting. Dont take this the wrong way, but how do you know that you got it right?

What about the float?

What specs did you end up with?

How old/what condition is your air filter in?

You dont mention the plug.Pull it and check it out. Put it against the head and cycle the starter. Do you get a strong blue spark?

 

Cover the basics methodicaly.

Terdog, my jetting is a 42 pilot, n85D needle in the second clip from top, with a 170 main, and airscrew at about 2 turns out, mixing 50:1 amsoil interceptor at about sea level. According to my local ktm dealer, this is the leanest I want to go, as I was thinking about a 40 pilot.

I checked my float height, and followed my manual and it seems right.

My air filter is fairly new, and was just cleaned, and not over oiled.

My plug is a br8ecm, and I have pulled it and it does seem a little dark. There is a nice blue spark.

Thanks.

 

 

 and airscrew at about 2 turns out, mixing 50:1 amsoil interceptor at about sea level. According to my local ktm dealer, this is the leanest I want to go, as I was thinking about a 40 pilot. 

You didnt mention what slide you have. Try a 40 pilot. Its not like its gunna sieze because of that.

 

 

 

n85D needle in the second clip from top

Its well known that a HONDA needle (1327 as I recall) works well in our (my 300 is an 02) generation KTM. My KTM dealer actually stocks them. Very similar to a JD needle. Have you tried the #1 position?

 

 

 

I checked my float height, and followed my manual and it seems right.

Adjust it slightly leaner. If it doesnt work, go back.

Do these changes with a clean plug and filter.

What premix oils have you tried?

How long since your last top end?

Have you done plug chops?

How do you oil your air filter? Spray or dip? Seems easy to over oil with the dipping method.

 

Its a bit of work, but try your changes 1 at a time. That way you know how they affected things.

Edited by terdog

Terdog, I have a number 6 slide.

Along with the local dealer telling me that a 40 pilot is too lean, also no one stocks them.

Since its getting colder around here I have adjusted the airscrew to the point it surges a little at idle (sign of being lean), with out any cut back with the amount of spooge. So I believe a 40 would be too lean.

I have heard about running different needles in here, as they come stock rich, but the way mine is seems very crisp through the mid range, which makes me believe my jetting is good.

I will try adjusting my float height and see if that helps.

I have about 25 hrs on my topend, and it still has great compression.

I haven't done a plug chop yet, which I need to do, but wouldn't that just be for the main jet?

I have tried klotz r-50 and that plugged my bike right up, and then I went to amsoil interceptor 44:1, then to 50:1, which I run now, with out any less spooge.

When I do my filter, I kind of dribble oil on. (I have belray foam filter oil, with a hole punctured in the seal under the cap for easy dribbling).

Thanks.

 

 

I haven't done a plug chop yet, which I need to do, but wouldn't that just be for the main jet?

A plug chop will test just about any "circuit".

 

I re-read your initial post, and it seems to me that your only issue is spooge? Your happy with the performance, right? is there a range where you tend to ride? Would you say that your a "rever"? Do you tend to ride the mid-range? That may help you figure out what area is fat, if any.

 

I live/ ride at 4000' on up. I switched out to a 7 slide and it cleaned up the bottom a bit.

 

I changed from Maxima to Motul 800 and reduced my spooge. Been running it at 60:1 for a few yrs, no problems. But Im about to try a bottle of Red Line just to try something new. Theres a lot of talk on some of the forums about running a oil with a lower flash point. After Im done with the Red Line, I will try a bottle of Motul 710 (lower flash point). 

 

We dont have much to lose with a little experimentation.

A plug chop will test just about any "circuit".

 

I re-read your initial post, and it seems to me that your only issue is spooge? Your happy with the performance, right? is there a range where you tend to ride? Would you say that your a "rever"? Do you tend to ride the mid-range? That may help you figure out what area is fat, if any.

I'm going to try a plug chop next.

And yes my only problem seems to be spooge, and I am happy with the performance and it seems to be jetted right, all the way through the powerband, and it never fouls a plug. Although it does seem to smoke a little more then usual when fully warmed up, and when cold, along with A LOT of excessive spooge, which makes me think its the crank seal. A little doesn't bother me, as its pretty much Normal for a 2 stroke.

I trail ride so I mostly ride in the mid-range, but do open it up when I have the chance and rev it out, so I'd say a mix between a revver and mid-range rider.

Can you post a pic of the spooge-i-ness?

 

Over the course of 2 days, I recently did 100 miles. My spooge runs down about 5" from the end. Im pretty happy with that.

 

Now, my sons 125 needs some tender care...

I would get a pic but it's starting to get pretty cold around here, and I think my bike is put away for the season, unless we have another warm spell...but I'll try to get a pic asap.

erplacing my seal as well right side in the 02 ktm 125 sx and i am having a hard time locating a collar and o ring so i can order just in case and if so its not worn or bad ill be able to return.Any help here would be greatly appreciated please.

Will be tearing my bike down this weekend to check the crank seals. One thing that I found though in a bag of goodies that was given to me when I bought the bike (about 8 months ago) was crank seals that look to be used, although hard to tell. Does this mean maybe the seals were done not too long ago? Is it time to do them again? What is the chances of it being the case gasket? (sure hope it's not!)

Just getting back to this post from last fall, as I'm finally digging into my bike to replace the crank seal since it's been to cold here in maine to work on it. I have a new seal for it that is ready to go in, but a question I had is do I just replace the seal and call it good or do I need to replace the bushing(collar) and the o-ring as well? Just making sure so I don't need to do the same job twice. Thanks.

.

Adding a pic in here of what my 200xcw is doing....partly to get 'subscribed' to this thread, but also bc I'm having similar issues and need to start learning how to work on this myself since no one/shop can seem to take care of it. 

 

Jetting and fuel ratio to KTM spec. Air filter and spark plug new/clean.

Runs ok, but.....clearly something is going on.

First 2-stroke.

 

ktm200xcw spooge2.jpg

Edited by LakVoodoo

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