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2013 RM-Z250 Shifting Problems- can't shift to 4th

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I have a 2013 RM-Z250 with 11 hours on it. I ride 40+ Novice so I am not very hard on my bikes and I keep up on scheduled maintenance. Since I got the bike I would very rarely not be able to upshift to 4th or 5th. I would try shifting hard several times and it was like you were in 5th and couldn't shift any further but the bike was in 3rd or 4th. Lately it started doing it really bad. If the bike is cool and I just put I can run through all the gears. Under any power, even if I pull the clutch to the bars when shifting, it goes through 1-2-3 then it just won't go to 4th 80% of the time once the bike warms up. I tried some heavier oil (I was running MX530) and moved the shift lever around for kicks and nothing. Tonight I had my friend help me split the cases sure it was a bent shift fork. After getting to the shift forks and looking at everything, all 3 forks are straight with no wear as are the pins they ride on. The shift drum has a solid positive feel and all the grooves are in excellent condition as well as the pins on the forks that ride in them. Honestly, everything looks new as I would expect with such low hours. I wonder if this could be from being assembled incorrectly at the factory or something? If anyone has any advice on this I would greatly appreciate it. I am lost and don't want to put it all back together and still have the same issue. Cheers!

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I have a 2013 RM-Z250 with 11 hours on it. I ride 40+ Novice so I am not very hard on my bikes and I keep up on scheduled maintenance. Since I got the bike I would very rarely not be able to upshift to 4th or 5th. I would try shifting hard several times and it was like you were in 5th and couldn't shift any further but the bike was in 3rd or 4th. Lately it started doing it really bad. If the bike is cool and I just put I can run through all the gears. Under any power, even if I pull the clutch to the bars when shifting, it goes through 1-2-3 then it just won't go to 4th 80% of the time once the bike warms up. I tried some heavier oil (I was running MX530) and moved the shift lever around for kicks and nothing. Tonight I had my friend help me split the cases sure it was a bent shift fork. After getting to the shift forks and looking at everything, all 3 forks are straight with no wear as are the pins they ride on. The shift drum has a solid positive feel and all the grooves are in excellent condition as well as the pins on the forks that ride in them. Honestly, everything looks new as I would expect with such low hours. I wonder if this could be from being assembled incorrectly at the factory or something? If anyone has any advice on this I would greatly appreciate it. I am lost and don't want to put it all back together and still have the same issue. Cheers!

I also have a 13 Rmz250. My tranny hits false neutrals and when hot, it drops a gear. There are many threads bout this issue. Look at your detent arm and spring... Also look at your shift star, to make sure its.lining up correctly and not chewed up. I'm having my tranny rebuilt too as we speak.

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I have seen threads on false neutrals but I have never had any false neutrals. I will check those things. Man, this is my first Suzuki and I love the way it handles etc. My favorite bike to date until this happened. Are these trannies just crap?

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I have seen threads on false neutrals but I have never had any false neutrals. I will check those things. Man, this is my first Suzuki and I love the way it handles etc. My favorite bike to date until this happened. Are these trannies just crap?

would you mind posting pictures of the 3rd and 4th gears both drive and driven? as well as the forks. if you can, try assembling the tranny in the right side case as well as the shift shaft. put the shifter on the end of the shift shaft and run through the gears to catch any problems. may be an oddity in the shift drum passage near fourth gear but thats just a guess.

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I have seen threads on false neutrals but I have never had any false neutrals. I will check those things. Man, this is my first Suzuki and I love the way it handles etc. My favorite bike to date until this happened. Are these trannies just crap?

unfortunaty, Suzuki makes the worst trannys in the business.. and before everyone jumps all over me..take note that iv have always owned zuks.

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would you mind posting pictures of the 3rd and 4th gears both drive and driven? as well as the forks. if you can, try assembling the tranny in the right side case as well as the shift shaft. put the shifter on the end of the shift shaft and run through the gears to catch any problems. may be an oddity in the shift drum passage near fourth gear but thats just a guess.

I will post some pics shortly. I tend to lean toward something in the shift drum but mine is a guess as well. I will inspect every gear thoroughly and assemble in the right case to see if I can catch it in action this afternoon.

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Here is a rough shot I took last night. I will get better shots this afternoon and try assembling in the right case.

I know its just a rough pic, but i was kinda hoping that you could get me more detail on the shift doggs and drum passages. get close with your camera and turn on macro mode to get nice pics. and dont worry too much, ive owned suzukis in the past too and have had good luck with my transmissions, so it may be something improperly installed at the factory, a defective part, or it may just need some more run in time. BUT the bike must shift when the rider needs it to so lets try and get to the bottom of this

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Here are some pics of 3rd and fourth driven and drive as well as the forks and drum. I assembled it in the right case and it shifts right through to 5th and has a very positive feel. I closely looked at all the dogs, grooves etc. and they all look excellent to me. I would almost lean towards putting it back together but I am paranoid it will still be an issue. Maybe it was assembled wrong? Honestly, when we split the cases we went straight for the shift forks so I did not document exactly how everything came out. More pics coming.

Driven 4th.JPG

DSC_0004.JPG

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Thanks for the pics Johny, but the three female dog gear is 1st gear driven and not 4th, the second gear you have shown is 4th gear on the DRIVE shaft, could you also show me some pics of 4th gear DRIVEN? no. 20 in the microfiches? Otherwise i cant seem to see anything out of the ordinary, i will suggest one last thing, and thats to do a dry fit of the engine cases (without crank just tranny) and run through the gears again, be carefull though not to tighten the case bolts as there will be no center case gasket (which is close to a mm thick) and tightening the case without it may cause the tranny to bind. if it shifts well than i think you can put her back together as i dont see any problem in the transmission. on the other hand, if it becomes difficult to shift at 4th or 5th then there may be an alignment issue.

 

 

P.S. Take note of the metal tabe protruding from the right case, this is the oil pump interface and needs to be ligned up when putting the cases together. if the cases become hard to assemble at the last 5-10mm, it is most likely that this is not ligning up properly

Edited by funkinalive

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Thanks funkin! I really appreciate your help on this. I am learning a lot. I will try the dry fit this afternoon. Last night I was toying with just tossing it back together and when I put the gear stacks fully together I noticed there are two washers missing from the gear stacks and trust me I made sure I had everything that came out of it. One was supposed to be for the end of the drive shaft assembly where it meets the bearing and the other was off one or the other gear stacks. One stack is a washer short according to the drawings and you can see it at the end of the shaft on either drive or driven depending on how which you build first. Maybe these were left out at the factory? Could that cause binding? I am going to the shop this morning to get the washers then I will try the dry fit later this afternoon. Thanks again, I really appreciate your help!

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Thanks funkin! I really appreciate your help on this. I am learning a lot. I will try the dry fit this afternoon. Last night I was toying with just tossing it back together and when I put the gear stacks fully together I noticed there are two washers missing from the gear stacks and trust me I made sure I had everything that came out of it. One was supposed to be for the end of the drive shaft assembly where it meets the bearing and the other was off one or the other gear stacks. One stack is a washer short according to the drawings and you can see it at the end of the shaft on either drive or driven depending on how which you build first. Maybe these were left out at the factory? Could that cause binding? I am going to the shop this morning to get the washers then I will try the dry fit later this afternoon. Thanks again, I really appreciate your help!

Are you SURE that those washers were not there? sometimes they can stick to the case bearing when pulling the cases apart, did you check the cases? in the first pic you posted in this thread it looks like one of the end washers is sticking to the bearing, be sure to double check the cases! if they are in fact missing than that would be a huge fail and i would even challenge the suzuki dealer. and YOU BET it can cause problems! if the tranny is not properly shimmed it not only causes alignment issues between the drive and driven shaft, but also causes the shift drum to bind, especially when the shift forks perform two operations in one shift LIKE SHIFTING INTO 4TH!!!

 

if you dont mind me going into detail: the two shift forks on the driven shaft take care of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd while the single fork on the drive shaft lays idle when switching between these gears. when shifting into 4th, 3rd driven must be disengaged while 3rd drive must be engaged into 4th all at the same time. this operations requires two forks to be actuated in one shift. if the gears/doggs are missaligned even slightly this can be an issue as one of the forks doesnt have the proper tolerance. it can even cause them to fight each other when shifting. if you are in fact missing these shims then your problem is most likely solved

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Clutch...don't tear up the gear box. My Honda did that when I shredded the clutch basket. That's pretty helpful that they put the brinell hardness rating on some of those parts.

Edited by perkybewbs

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Alright, I figured out the washer issue. There was one stuck on the case and it was the only one I needed apparently. I got everything together and put the case together with the gasket. Everything is nice and snug and it will shift through all 5 gears consistently. It actually has a much better feel than it did before I took it apart. My friend also checked it and said it seemed excellent. When I started torqueing the case bolts one snapped. I could feel it spin but not get tighter. Everyone complains about the stock Suzuki bolts and now I know why. It didn't even get to 7 lbs and should be at 8. Anyway, do you have any recommendations on better bolts? It is a good time to just replace some to prevent issues in the future. I was thinking of going to the hardware store tomorrow and wondered if pure steel or a steel zinc type bolt would be better. Thanks for your help man, I really appreciate it!

Perky- Thanks for the input. I did check the clutch basket etc. and the clutch is in great shape;-)

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Just curious. Did you have problems shifting to 4th with or without the clutch or both?

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Alright, I put the bike back together Saturday night and took it out the last two days to see if it still does this. I thought it did this again once after about 20 minutes of riding but then I noticed my shift lever was really low after I put it all back together. I put it back where I like it and the bike shifts flawlessly now! All I can think is there was something loose in the case causing it to get jammed up sometimes or it was a washer in the wrong place or something from the factory. Shifting feels nice and positive now and I am not missing any shifts. Thanks for all your help!

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Alright, I put the bike back together Saturday night and took it out the last two days to see if it still does this. I thought it did this again once after about 20 minutes of riding but then I noticed my shift lever was really low after I put it all back together. I put it back where I like it and the bike shifts flawlessly now! All I can think is there was something loose in the case causing it to get jammed up sometimes or it was a washer in the wrong place or something from the factory. Shifting feels nice and positive now and I am not missing any shifts. Thanks for all your help!

Glad to hear it! might have not had enough hrs to wear in, but something definitely got things going. you also gained valuable first hand experience about your bottom end. hope it all holds up

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