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Help! Suzuki ts 250 1979

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Whats the oil to petrol ratio on this bike? Uk model just brought it and the owner had it stored away for years and didnt know the ratio

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You should not run this bike on premix without the engine being modified.

The reason for this is because the standard engine normally runs a very reliable oil injection system that utilises a metal shield plate over the flywheel side main bearing to keep injected oil in the bearing. The sheild catches the oil as it is thrown out of the bearing with centrifugal force and directs it to the crank pin.

If you remove the oil injection system the shield plate stops the premix getting to the main bearing and results in it not being lubricated properly with obvious consequences.

 

The above is also relevant to the Suzuki TM engines.

 

I am just rebuilding a couple of TS250 engines at the moment myself, one of which required a replacement crank and flywheel side main bearing as it was worn out due to previous owner running premix.....

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You should not run this bike on premix without the engine being modified.

The reason for this is because the standard engine normally runs a very reliable oil injection system that utilises a metal shield plate over the flywheel side main bearing to keep injected oil in the bearing. The sheild catches the oil as it is thrown out of the bearing with centrifugal force and directs it to the crank pin.

If you remove the oil injection system the shield plate stops the premix getting to the main bearing and results in it not being lubricated properly with obvious consequences.

 

The above is also relevant to the Suzuki TM engines.

 

I am just rebuilding a couple of TS250 engines at the moment myself, one of which required a replacement crank and flywheel side main bearing as it was worn out due to previous owner running premix.....

Thats good to know, I always thought leave it alone and run premix, with oil in the injection system as a backup. Edited by ickfinger

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You should not run this bike on premix without the engine being modified.

The reason for this is because the standard engine normally runs a very reliable oil injection system that utilises a metal shield plate over the flywheel side main bearing to keep injected oil in the bearing. The sheild catches the oil as it is thrown out of the bearing with centrifugal force and directs it to the crank pin.

If you remove the oil injection system the shield plate stops the premix getting to the main bearing and results in it not being lubricated properly with obvious consequences.

The above is also relevant to the Suzuki TM engines.

I am just rebuilding a couple of TS250 engines at the moment myself, one of which required a replacement crank and flywheel side main bearing as it was worn out due to previous owner running premix.....

well the oil mixture tank is emtpy. I dont think i would trust the thing as its very old. But if you say so what oil do you recommend? Sorry im a 4stroke guy aha! Good luck though with your bikes:)
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If the oil tank is still there I presume the pump and lines are also still there too? There should be a line from the oil tank to the pump and also two other small lines, one connected to the inlet tract on the cylinder, and the other connects to the crank casing above the flywheel side main bearing. And there should be a two part throttle cable with one part going to the carb and the other to the oil pump which lifts the metering arm to vary the output flow of the pump.

 

If that is the case I would be tempted to remove the oil tank and clean it out properly to ensure there is no dust or particles in it. Then refit it, reconnect the oil feed line to the pump and fill the tank with any 2 stroke injector pump type oil.

If you remove the thin tin oil pump cover that sits behind the chain and gearbox sprocket you will see the pump. There is a star head screw at the top of the pump which is a bleed point, if you carefully remove this screw (without the engine running) and the fibre sealing washer, oil should begin to flow out once the pump is bled . Once that occurs replace the bleed screw.

If the bike has not been run in a long time I would also undo the smaller oil feed line to the main bearing which has an 8mm headed bolt and two aluminium sealing washers. Be careful the oil line connection does not turn with the bolt and break the oil line connection!! Then put a few good squirts of oil down the hole to initially lube the main bearing. Then reconnect the pipe

Once that is done you could then fill the petrol tank with premix at 30:1ish so there is some lubrication for the piston and crank and then start the bike. If you hold up the metering arm on the oil pump which the throttle cable connects to it should flow more oil to bleed it through the small pipes quicker.

If and when the oil starts to flow through the two feed lines the engine should begin to smoke noticeably more. It may well be worth running it in this excessive smoke condition for a while to notice if the oil tank level begins to drop. This will take some time but if you mark the tank and after say two gallons of 30:1 premix used you could see how much oil it takes to fill the tank up to where it was. Hopefully it will take a good few hundred CCs of oil and this sort of tallys in with a 25:1 rate of injection and indicates the system is operating correctly.
Then just comes the leap of faith to rely on the CCI injection system and stop using the premix. LOL

 

Make sure to check the airfilter is in decent condition as they are not the best design and it is very important to stop any dust and debris getting into the intake system.

Edited by rmxdan

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If the oil tank is still there I presume the pump and lines are also still there too? There should be a line from the oil tank to the pump and also two other small lines, one connected to the inlet tract on the cylinder, and the other connects to the crank casing above the flywheel side main bearing. And there should be a two part throttle cable with one part going to the carb and the other to the oil pump which lifts the metering arm to vary the output flow of the pump.

If that is the case I would be tempted to remove the oil tank and clean it out properly to ensure there is no dust or particles in it. Then refit it, reconnect the oil feed line to the pump and fill the tank with any 2 stroke injector pump type oil.

If you remove the thin tin oil pump cover that sits behind the chain and gearbox sprocket you will see the pump. There is a star head screw at the top of the pump which is a bleed point, if you carefully remove this screw (without the engine running) and the fibre sealing washer, oil should begin to flow out once the pump is bled . Once that occurs replace the bleed screw.

If the bike has not been run in a long time I would also undo the smaller oil feed line to the main bearing which has an 8mm headed bolt and two aluminium sealing washers. Be careful the oil line connection does not turn with the bolt and break the oil line connection!! Then put a few good squirts of oil down the hole to initially lube the main bearing. Then reconnect the pipe

Once that is done you could then fill the petrol tank with premix at 30:1ish so there is some lubrication for the piston and crank and then start the bike. If you hold up the metering arm on the oil pump which the throttle cable connects to it should flow more oil to bleed it through the small pipes quicker.

If and when the oil starts to flow through the two feed lines the engine should begin to smoke noticeably more. It may well be worth running it in this excessive smoke condition for a while to notice if the oil tank level begins to drop. This will take some time but if you mark the tank and after say two gallons of 30:1 premix used you could see how much oil it takes to fill the tank up to where it was. Hopefully it will take a good few hundred CCs of oil and this sort of tallys in with a 25:1 rate of injection and indicates the system is operating correctly.

Then just comes the leap of faith to rely on the CCI injection system and stop using the premix. LOL

Make sure to check the airfilter is in decent condition as they are not the best design and it is very important to stop any dust and debris getting into the intake system.

thanks for all that! Well the thing is i dont trust the cci injection haha! Is premix really that bad for this bike? How come all modern 2 strokes are premix and it has a open air filter on the carb

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thanks for all that! Well the thing is i dont trust the cci injection haha! Is premix really that bad for this bike? How come all modern 2 strokes are premix and it has a open air filter on the carb

 

See my first post. The oil plate I mention does a particularly good job of sheilding the bearing and stopping premix and therefore lubrication getting to the bearing. Plus there is also no drilling in the crankcase to the transfer port area to allow any premix to flow through the bearing from the crank area.

It was never designed to run on premix and it will ultimately damage the components and require and engine rebuild to replace them. It may not be an immediate failure but every time it is run on premix it will be damaging the bearing due to lack of lubrication.

 

Get an airfilter on there! I have a few spare parts lying around including an airbox if you get stuck finding stuff. :thumbsup:

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See my first post. The oil plate I mention does a particularly good job of sheilding the bearing and stopping premix and therefore lubrication getting to the bearing. Plus there is also no drilling in the crankcase to the transfer port area to allow any premix to flow through the bearing from the crank area.

It was never designed to run on premix and it will ultimately damage the components and require and engine rebuild to replace them. It may not be an immediate failure but every time it is run on premix it will be damaging the bearing due to lack of lubrication.

Get an airfilter on there! I have a few spare parts lying around including an airbox if you get stuck finding stuff. :thumbsup:

okay i will clean the oil pump hoses out etc etc ! And give it ago. Also yes i have the oem air box but i wont be riding off road as its registerd. I mainly brought it to get back from work etc more of a run around :)

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rmxdan knows of what he speaks.  The only way to safely run premix is to split the cases and remove that oil slinger plate.  The thing is, as long as your in there for sure replace main seals and maybe main bearings - especially the one you removed to take out the plate..  I have 2 '80 TS250s and actually, I'm having trouble with 2 oil pumps.  They are leaking or passing oil through them in the forward direction.  So, when you park it for any length of time, oil seeps into the motor.  Last time I rode it, I had to have a push start and it barely started.  It SMOKED BAD for a few minutes until it finally cleared out all the oil.  Not sure what I'm going to do about this.  It's in storage now but maybe this winter, I'll try disassembling the pump.  There should be a check valve somewhere in it.

Edited by motoxvet
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After thinking about it for a while and double-checking my manual, I wanted to mention this interesting point of the TS250.  I have a manual for an '80 TS250 for US delivery.  I'm not sure of the letter designation.  This feature is found in several years.  The main bearing on the clutch side is lubed by transmission lube.  The main seal is behind the main bearing so the bearing is bathed in gear lube.  So, if someone runs it with pre-mix with that plate installed, the only damage that may be done would be to the flywheel side bearing where the plate is.  The clutch side bearing is safe.  I don't know why everyone doesn't make their 2 strokes that way...NOW!

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Good stuff fellas!  

 

OI systems are fine, Kaw uses them on most of the trail bikes.  Just check operation or install a new pump.

 

I think the problem running the main bearing in the trans is that the main bearing gets all the debris from the clutch and trans.  I modified my '76 HD Shovelhead because of a oil system like that.  Basically the oil tank fed the engine and the primary chain/clutch and back to the oil tank.  All the primary chain and clutch crap was contaminating the engine oil.  I just bypassed the primary case and added 1/2qt oil to the case at an oil change.

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That's a good point about the main bearing now running in all the gearbox/clutch debris.  Good incentive to change your gearbox lube often.

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Yeah i cleaned and put oil in the pump it works fine bow :) thanks guys thinking of buying another

I have 2 of them but the grubby one is turning into a parts donor only.  Regarding a "NEW" oil pump, they have been unavailable for quite a while from Suzuki unless someone is hoarding them somewhere.  That's one good point of going to premix- not worrying about the pump functioning properly.

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I have 2 of them but the grubby one is turning into a parts donor only. Regarding a "NEW" oil pump, they have been unavailable for quite a while from Suzuki unless someone is hoarding them somewhere. That's one good point of going to premix- not worrying about the pump functioning properly.

yeah iv brought another going to pick it up on saturday :) this one is green but in going to get it sprayed what colour? I have a drz in yellow so might get that colour?ImageUploadedByThumper Talk1382366041.495069.jpg

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Here's mine in yellow.  OE was blue.  Front fender was bought yellow.  Everything else was painted yellow, INCLUDING places like the inside of the headlight bucket.  I didn't want the OE blue to be visible ANYWHERE and I think I succeeded in that.  BTW- I believe the US model was a little different that for the rest of the world.  I think yours has an ERT or ERN designation?  I think mine is a TS250T.  Actually, I like the looks of the European one better.

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does anyone know if there is a TS model reissue in a market outside of the states? I thought I remember seeing a NEW model not too long ago, possibly in red. It might have been a late 90'smodel or so, but definately an old TS in all its 1979 bodywork.

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There IS a TS250 model out pretty recently somewhere in the world but it's totally different than the ones we own.  Strictly a street bike.   I haven't looked at the web site for a while but bikepics.com has a lot of older bike pics but beware - Not everything you see there is correct as far as year.  I blame that on the owners not really knowing what they've got.

Edited by motoxvet

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