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Starter loctite fix disaster

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After I finished applying the loctite to all the fasteners, I decided to check on the starter idle gears, and when i pulled them out, one of the shims fell out, and since I couldn't find it I suspect it fell into the engine. So I guess now I have to take the whole thing apart..very sad thing.

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After I finished applying the loctite to all the fasteners, I decided to check on the starter idle gears, and when i pulled them out, one of the shims fell out, and since I couldn't find it I suspect it fell into the engine. So I guess now I have to take the whole thing apart..very sad thing.

remove both side covers, poke around with a magnet on a stalk ... use a strong flashlight and a small mirror to look around or a inspection camera if you have one...  

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No way I can get it out, so I guess I'll have to get a new engine, since I don't trust the mechanics around here and lack the tools/expertise to do it myself. Or just dump the bike. Very stupid design, a gaping hole that makes the engine unusable in the likely event of something falling in.

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No way I can get it out, so I guess I'll have to get a new engine, since I don't trust the mechanics around here and lack the tools/expertise to do it myself. Or just dump the bike. Very stupid design, a gaping hole that makes the engine unusable in the likely event of something falling in.

 

Wow, calm down... it's not a stupid design, stuff happens when you aren't careful or paying attention.  Which part did you pull out, the starter torque limiter (gear under the small circular cover w/ 3 screws) or the idler gear (under larger side cover, gear meshes with flywheel): http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/548456-stator-and-starter-clutch-loctite-fix/

 

Are you sure you lost a washer?  Double check it isn't stuck to the case or on the gear/shaft.  If it truely did drop into the engine, remove the left side cover, maybe it stuck to flywheel (magnetic), or got caught in the stator...

 

I don't recall if the opening to the crankcase from the left side is very large, as in the washer could fall into the center crank area.

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You're right, it's my fault..anyway, anyone attempting this fix for God's sake be sure to stuff hell's gate with rags before touching anything. What happened is that, after everything was nicely loctited, I decided to check the idler gear as per the fix, and it happened to be ok, that is behind the gear there was a circlip sandwiched by two shims, the latter of which fell behind the flywheel gear and I suppose into the engine, since I couldn't find it anywhere. I examined every square centimeter of the area, nothing.The bike was leaning to the right so as not to lose the oil, so it was a straight line for it to go down the drain. The opening is large enough for the washer to fall through, it's rather small. I ran a rag between the flywheel and the gear, also behind the gear, but nothing got dragged out. Then I got a hard drive magnet, cut it down to size, and tried to fish something out, but no amount of twisting or wiggling gave, and it's very strong a magnet. My last hope is to insert the magnet through the oil drain so if the washer is at the bottom of the pan, hopefully it can be lifted into sight.  Wouldn't bet on it though.

 

So...I either can dump the bike altogether, or get a new engine and keep this one to teach myself mechanics on rainy days.

 

I've been looking at some open ebay engines for sale, and i think the washer slid under the sump strainer, that's why I can't fish it out, and getting to that requires a total engine disassembly. So it's end of game. I'll remove the engine and slowly start tearing it apart.

Edited by michaelks

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I've haven't been inside the drz motor yet to know what it looks like and where you suspect the washer might be but if it fell down to the bottom (guessing that's where the sump strainer is?) could you attempt to use your strong magnet on the outside bottom of the engine case and work it over to the oil drain hole? Just a thought....

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Have you pulled the flywheel and checked it carefully inside and out for you washer? have you done what was suggested.. a pick up magnet on a extending stalk Pickup_Tool.jpg

 

You can use a gallon of kerosene or diesel, or any light oil to "flush" the motor as well... perhaps get the washer to move to a spot the magnet will pick it up.

 

Air nozzle with a long hunk of copper tube bent in various shapes to get in and move high pressure air around inside the case may also get that washer to move to a new location you can get to it. 

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Erik,

 

Is it possible that it fell thru to the right side cover... are there any large openings between the center crankcase and that side?  Either way it wouldn’t hurt to remove that side cover either.

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Erik,

 

 

 

Is it possible that it fell thru to the right side cover... are there any large openings between the center crankcase and that side?  Either way it wouldn’t hurt to remove that side cover either.

 Yes something can make it from side to side.. and more likely if the motor was run.

 But we are talking about a VERY thin and small washer with almost no weight to it.. it will stick to an oily surface pretty well and this motor was not run. bike was laid over on it's side..... If it's not stuck to the flywheel or back side of the starter gear...it's likely just sitting on a transmission gear  or case surface in a oily film. 

 

These washers get mis installed and spit off the gear/shaft  then chewed up by the transmission gears.. if the washer may be between gear teeth as well.  

 

 YES, I think he should remove the right cover and look there, as well as it will give an additional opening to poke around with a magnet in the case.

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hell if your going to write off the motor because of this

 

you might as well ride it till it fails  that washer may never be an issue

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hell if your going to write off the motor because of this

 

you might as well ride it till it fails  that washer may never be an issue

 

 

I was going to say that, but I reserved posting it just yet.

 

A lot of good advice here, personally I would try it all... short of splitting the cases, if nothing else worked.  Unless you physically saw the washer fall in, there's always a chance that it just fell somewhere else and got kicked.  I have lost many o'parts that way if I wasn't careful (never to be found or found months later).

 

If it were me, I think, I'd chance it (after doing the above mentioned methods), stupid maybe.  Now if it was a more substantial piece (screw, bolt, big or thick washer) I'd reconsider.  I would make sure the engine turns over freely and all the gears in the transmission engage (no funny noises, no binding, etc..).  Then adhere a large magnet to the crankcase bottom (outside).  Fill with oil and ride.  Hopefully it would find its way to the magnet and stay.

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whats He got to loose?

 

Myself I would split the case  but if your just going to order a new motor anyway

 

We  think alike  I was going to go back and edit to use a case magnet  LOL

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unless a gear eats it first  then whats left may be  small enough to be suspended in the oil 

 

think like a pessimist  LOL

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Also the washer will sink to the bottom of the crank case. As its heavier than oil duh

Try it yourself and let us know what you find out .

Try dropping that very thin steel washer in a qt of oil and let me know hat happens

Then try dropping that washer at the top of the motor and tell us how fast it makes it to the bottom of the non scavenged oil in the case. (You do know its a sry sump oil system ... Yes?)

And finally show us a picture of that washer after it has been dropped in the case and the motor used for a few hours.

Think you will be both surprised at what you find and understand why your post above is just not reality

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Thank you all so much for all the answers. I just completed the loctite fix on the rotor and magneto, and besides I don't have the special tool for removing the flywheel, so I'm trying everything else I can think of short of that. I believe the washer, being in the sump, isn't going anywhere since (correct me if I'm wrong) it's at a crossroads where everything is incoming and the only way out is up, which of course it can't ride on because of the sump strainer. So it'll just stay there for the duration and there's nothing to worry about. That assuming it really is there, because I juggled a hard drive magnet (that will catch a wrench 5 cm away) at the end of a wire all I could and nothing. I'm going to see a friend who has one of those small lamps with a flexible stalk, give that a try. It's not behind the rotor/gear, I repeatedly dragged a rag in between these parts and anything there would have been dragged out. I'll give that flushing a try, if not then glue the magnet to the case and reopen later to see.

 

Anyway, if the engine breaks, I can always look forward to many hours of entertainment taking it apart, and also I'll have a new engine on the bike, which is a nice thing. In fact, I'll have to buy a whole new bike and transplant it to the old frame, because here the only model to be had is the yellow E, and it isn't street legal. Which is why I bought this S, the PO brought it in from the US.

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I dont think yours is. But splitting the whole engine for a washer. If his getting a new engine he might aswell just try it dont you think.

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i'll pay the shipping of the old engine to me. that will be a nice rebuild / hop-up project for me over the winter. where are you located ? 

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