Countershaft nut came off while riding, oil everywhere!

[thebugslaaaa]

Well I have put 50 miles on my brand new motor since it came back from eddie and I think I just killed it:( countershft nut came off sometime during a 7 mile commute to work. Pulled up to a stop light and my clutch quit working, still had pressure but bike would not engage into gear. I had gobs of oil leaking from my countershaft, it looked as if the seal had busted and the shaft was sticking out more than usual. That is all I know, I walked the rest of the way to work crying and now my bike is stranded at costco. When it rains it pours guys. Is my motor done? Where do I begin?

[Erik Marquez]

Well I have put 50 miles on my brand new motor since it came back from eddie and I think I just killed it:( countershft nut came off sometime during a 7 mile commute to work. Pulled up to a stop light and my clutch quit working, still had pressure but bike would not engage into gear. I had gobs of oil leaking from my countershaft, it looked as if the seal had busted and the shaft was sticking out more than usual. That is all I know, I walked the rest of the way to work crying and now my bike is stranded at costco. When it rains it pours guys. Is my motor done? Where do I begin?

 

 

Start with getting it home..

 Oil starvation will show in the cam journal and piston / cylinder.. So start with draining the oil.. HOW MUCH is still in the frame tank and motor.

 Remove the valve cover, set to TDC compression or at least get the cams pointed at 10&2, remove CCT, and remove a cam cap check for signs of oil starvation/.

 

If none, and 1 qt or so is drained with no metal chunks.. Replace the countershaft seal, do the loctite fix, add oil and filter.. start and check for good oil flow at the check bolt.. If good, go ride.

[michaelks]

You have all my sympathy, being in dire straits myself.

[thebugslaaaa]

There seemed to still be a decent ammount of oil in it when I came to a stop although it was spewing pretty good. I assume most of the oil will be on the ground by the time I go pick up my bike after work. Assuming there was enough oil in the motor how good do you think my chances are? What about damage to the crank? I heard no pops bangs or hand grenade like noises whatsoever. There is gobs of oil all over my rear tire it is a miracle I didnt go down on highway 9 on my way to work. I will never make thisisrake again. Lock tite lock tite lock tite.

[Erik Marquez]

If it still had 1 qt or so when you stopped running it I'd guess you'll be fine

But don't guess

Consider doing what was suggested

[bmwpowere36m3]

Yea, it's hard to speculate... Just follow Erik's advice. Get it home, drain the oil, check how much oil you drained, any metallic particles in oil and pull the valve cover for a look.

[thebugslaaaa]

If it still had 1 qt or so when you stopped running it I'd guess you'll be fine

But don't guess

Consider doing what was suggested

Of course Eric I plan on following your instructions to the T as soon as I get home. I am just sitting here at work and can't get

My mind off of this. I may have to guess a bit though as there is a good mount of oil under the bike on the street I have to factor in as well. Stay tuned for updates tonight

[150ron]

When you got the engine back from Eddie,  and were putting it back in the bike,  then the front sprocket and the chain on,  did you know about the loctite fixes/issues with the counter shaft nut?

 

Sorry to hear this,  hope it'll be ok,  since no loud noises were heard.

 

keep us informed.

[Erik Marquez]

When you got the engine back from Eddie,  and were putting it back in the bike,  then the front sprocket and the chain on,  did you know about the loctite fixes/issues with the counter shaft nut?

Id have to suggest YES

 

https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1030202-counter-shaft-sprocket-soo-loose-found-my-knocking/

[thebugslaaaa]

Id have to suggest YES

https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1030202-counter-shaft-sprocket-soo-loose-found-my-knocking/

[thebugslaaaa]

Id have to suggest YES

Yup not my first time around the block. I was actually on my way to home depot after work

To buy more. I think my nut must have been trashed. I have been checking that nut before everyride and it has not loosened up at all, so I figured I was good for a few days. Wrong, I am an idiot. Can't believe it went from tight to gone in 5-7 miles...

https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1030202-counter-shaft-sprocket-soo-loose-found-my-knocking/

[bmwpowere36m3]

 

 

Id have to suggest YES

Yup not my first time around the block. I was actually on my way to home depot after work

To buy more. I think my nut must have been trashed. I have been checking that nut before everyride and it has not loosened up at all, so I figured I was good for a few days. Wrong, I am an idiot. Can't believe it went from tight to gone in 5-7 miles...

https://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1030202-counter-shaft-sprocket-soo-loose-found-my-knocking/

 

 

I would also assume you didn't have the locking washer bent over the nut... because even if the nut loosened, it (locking washer) would have prevented it from totally coming loose.

[xsandiego]

Your not alone, same thing happened to me, my tire slid out on a turn, I corrected and wondered what the heck. I was at a light, Idle seemed a little high, I looked down to adjust it and there is was Uncle Flow, oil on the ground. Instantly shut it off. Nut was thrashed, ordered a new one and a washer . So, it does happen dude. Just wanted to let you know that "It Happens". Yeah, that's it, a new rap song...... whack washer hittin' dat loose nut.....uh maybe not....Keep it on two wheels. Mike 

[thebugslaaaa]

I would also assume you didn't have the locking washer bent over the nut... because even if the nut loosened, it (locking washer) would have prevented it from totally coming loose.

 

Actually I did have the lock washer installed. I do have to admit that I did somewhat of a lazy job bending it back over with a flathead.   Regardless both are gone now.

 

Your not alone, same thing happened to me, my tire slid out on a turn, I corrected and wondered what the heck. I was at a light, Idle seemed a little high, I looked down to adjust it and there is was Uncle Flow, oil on the ground. Instantly shut it off. Nut was thrashed, ordered a new one and a washer . So, it does happen dude. Just wanted to let you know that "It Happens". Yeah, that's it, a new rap song...... whack washer hittin' dat loose nut.....uh maybe not....Keep it on two wheels. Mike 

 

haha thanks Mike, I am still a bit confused why the CS seal broke and I starting loosing oil, but I bet one of you gurus can explain that to me! I drained the oil as soon as I got home from work and found at least 1qt if not 1.5qts of oil (including leakage at the scene) in there. I now will pull the valve cover off and pull a cam cap to check for any signs of oil starvation and post a few pics for you guys. I am hoping for the best that I did not kill my brand new motor, and will update with pics in the morning. Here is how much oil came out of the motor.

(1 gallon jug of water with the top cut off, sorry for the terrible picture)

 

P.S. Anyone have a list of parts that I will most likely need other than that seal? Is this all I need?? 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Counter-Shaft-Sprocket-Seal-Kit-for-Suzuki-Drz-400-2000-2009-Drz400/350886054530?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D261%26meid%3D1857292964661620285%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1088%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D181214310076%26

Edited October 9, 2013 by thebugslaaaa

[genR8r]

Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

The CS seal is held in place by the nut-washer-sprocket assembly. When that loosens, it loses it's seal... it pisses out oil.

Apart from what's included in the parts from that link, you'll also need the CS nut.

EDIT: As Eric pointed out, there is in fact a retaining plate holding the seal in place.

Edited October 9, 2013 by Nellisvan

[Erik Marquez]

Actually I did have the lock washer installed. I do have to admit that I did somewhat of a lazy job bending it back over with a flathead.   Regardless both are gone now.

 

 

haha thanks Mike, I am still a bit confused why the CS seal broke and I starting loosing oil, but I bet one of you gurus can explain that to me! I drained the oil as soon as I got home from work and found at least 1qt if not 1.5qts of oil (including leakage at the scene) in there. I now will pull the valve cover off and pull a cam cap to check for any signs of oil starvation and post a few pics for you guys. I am hoping for the best that I did not kill my brand new motor, and will update with pics in the morning. Here is how much oil came out of the motor.

(1 gallon jug of water with the top cut off, sorry for the terrible picture)

 

P.S. Anyone have a list of parts that I will most likely need other than that seal? Is this all I need?? 

 

The seal is retained in position by steel retainer... BUT once the counter shaft nut-sprocket-spacer get loose......the seal can start to leak....all the way to when the spacer comes out far enough that the double lip seal is no longer in full contact, and it leaks A LOT. 

 

As you found out.. a little oil makes a big mess and often looks worse then it is.. draining 1.5 qt is a good sign.... of course with a major bleed of oil pressure at that leaking seal.. it still means damage may have been done.. not likely but your correct in looking at the far end of the oiling system (cams) to make sure.

 

Replacement parts (As noted in the FAQ write up) 

Parts required for the repair of a leaking countershaft seal are:

SEAL, DRIVE SHAFT OIL 09283-30053

SPACER, ENGINE SPROCKET 27531-29F00

O RING (D:2.5,ID:21) 09280-21008

Often the screws holding the seal retainer are damaged, if needed they are BOLT, RETAINER (6X14)09126-06007

 

Replacement nut and washer are:

ENG SPROCKET WASHER 09167-22012

ENGINE SPROCKET NUT 09140-18006

 

 Check prices on the Kawasaki supplied like parts as well, often they are cheaper, even though they are Suzuki parts re-bagged 

[ohgood]

I would also assume you didn't have the locking washer bent over the nut... because even if the nut loosened, it (locking washer) would have prevented it from totally coming loose.

 

 

don't count on that. a little vibration and the nut will saw right through the washer, then continue to unscrew itself. 

 

i've started marking my CS nut and sprocket with a paint marker, along with the axle nuts and chain adjusters. takes all of 5 seconds to see they are all where they should be ;-)

Edited October 9, 2013 by ohgood

[thebugslaaaa]

The seal is retained in position by steel retainer... BUT once the counter shaft nut-sprocket-spacer get loose......the seal can start to leak....all the way to when the spacer comes out far enough that the double lip seal is no longer in full contact, and it leaks A LOT.

As you found out.. a little oil makes a big mess and often looks worse then it is.. draining 1.5 qt is a good sign.... of course with a major bleed of oil pressure at that leaking seal.. it still means damage may have been done.. not likely but your correct in looking at the far end of the oiling system (cams) to make sure.

Replacement parts (As noted in the FAQ write up)

Parts required for the repair of a leaking countershaft seal are:

SEAL, DRIVE SHAFT OIL 09283-30053

SPACER, ENGINE SPROCKET 27531-29F00

O RING (D:2.5,ID:21) 09280-21008

Often the screws holding the seal retainer are damaged, if needed they are BOLT, RETAINER (6X14)09126-06007

Replacement nut and washer are:

ENG SPROCKET WASHER 09167-22012

ENGINE SPROCKET NUT 09140-18006

Check prices on the Kawasaki supplied like parts as well, often they are cheaper, even though they are Suzuki parts re-bagged

Thanks for the info. Sorry should have known this was in the FAQ! Parts ordered will post cam pics tonight ?

[bmwpowere36m3]

don't count on that. a little vibration and the nut will saw right through the washer, then continue to unscrew itself.

i've started marking my CS nut and sprocket with a paint marker, along with the axle nuts and chain adjusters. takes all of 5 seconds to see they are all where they should be ;-)

I wouldnt count on it either, but on my last trail ride I noticed some "new" noise from the front sprocket area. Didn't see it at first, but the nut loosened slightly and I could tell based on marks on the locking washer. Not having a ~30 mm wrench/socket with me I rode home 30 miles, no problems.

Granted the nut was not super loose, but it didn't get any looser on the ride home. I also did the loctite fix about 3k miles earlier on the sprocket.

So lessons learned:

First, loctite fix is not permenant, i.e. needs to be redone every so often, before you need a new sprocket in my case.

Second, a good new locking washer can be the difference between walking or riding home or worse....

Third, inspect nut every so often. Like ohgood mentioned, I too have put a paint mark on the shaft/nut. It gives you a quick visual that the nut hasn't loosened.

[michaelks]

I must have been very lucky then. This video I posted weeks ago shows how my nut was, all loose, held in place only by the washer.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVpGpKYH1I8

 

I told the PO about this, and he said he never even had looked at the sprocket, and had been riding like that for a long time. And besides, the o ring wasn't in its groove in the spacer, it had been simply slid in before it. Now go figure.

 

Now let me tell you about the loctite fix. I had put the oring back in as I had seen it come out, I had no idea it needed to be in the spacer groove (black arrow in pic)

 

 

 

So I had to remove the sprocket again to get things right, and I was surprised to see how easily the jaw puller took it off. So next time around I did a better job of cleaning the shaft, rubbing degreaser with cotton tips into the grooves until they came out totally clean, and there still was a lot of goo in there. So properly cleaning before applying the loctite is vital.

Edited October 9, 2013 by michaelks