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I have a valve?

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So I just finished my 100 hour valve check and everything was spot on. I have read in some old threads about people changing to SS after 100+ hours. I always check my air filter and clean often.

So my ? is should I start to keep a closer eye on them now that I'm @ 100+ hours? ON my trx 450 (basically same motor) I had SS valves installed and they never moved in 5 years. I'm not really familiar with Ti valves cause I took mine out a year after buying it and they were still ok.

I do plan to send my head out for some porting and valve work but not till these valves go.

Edited by StonedInNy

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Spot on as in they have not moved in shim tolerance from the last check?

 

Then you are golden, no worries.

 

As soon as it starts to get finnicky to start, check them again, and they will have closed up a bit.

 

TRX comes with SS intake valves stock. That is one of the go-to conversions for the X motor.

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Yea spot on as in no shim needed. It took a shim the first time I checked them at 10 hours. If I remember correctly it was a right intake needing one size smaller.

So your saying wait till it doesn't start as easy when cold then checkem. Once that happens I assume coating is gone and shimming will happen more often. Thanks krannie

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Yea spot on as in no shim needed. It took a shim the first time I checked them at 10 hours. If I remember correctly it was a right intake needing one size smaller.

So your saying wait till it doesn't start as easy when cold then checkem. Once that happens I assume coating is gone and shimming will happen more often. Thanks krannie

 

Are you saying you had to shim a brand new bike at 10 hours?  That is very rare. 

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What my dealer did prior to me buying I don't know. I'm sure they don't follow a break in like the one I follow. Or break in anything at all and just fire them up to sell a bike. Once I owned it I followed motoman's method as I have done on all my motor builds.

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Did you heat cycle the motor when you broke it in?

Good god, that is one of the biggest piles of BS spewed on the Internet...the thought that you have to heat cycle the motor during break in. Every single one of my race bike were broken in on the track at full throttle. None of this BS heat cycle, vary throttle, ect. Guess what, I never had a failure, my engines dynoed at or above OEM rated power. There is no need to "heat cycle" a new engine. The term "heat cycle" comes from the idea that the new engine components are being "heat treated" as the engine is run. Heat treating the metal parts is a very different process, and it's already done at the factory before the engines are assembled. The temperatures required for heat treating are much higher than an engine will ever reach during operation. The idea of breaking the engine in using "heat cycles" is a myth that came from the misunderstanding of the concept of "heat treating". But I guess you knew that, considering everything else you know

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What my dealer did prior to me buying I don't know. I'm sure they don't follow a break in like the one I follow. Or break in anything at all and just fire them up to sell a bike. Once I owned it I followed motoman's method as I have done on all my motor builds.

 

Yup, that's it.

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Good god, that is one of the biggest piles of BS spewed on the Internet...the thought that you have to heat cycle the motor during break in. Every single one of my race bike were broken in on the track at full throttle. None of this BS heat cycle, vary throttle, ect. Guess what, I never had a failure, my engines dynoed at or above OEM rated power. There is no need to "heat cycle" a new engine. The term "heat cycle" comes from the idea that the new engine components are being "heat treated" as the engine is run. Heat treating the metal parts is a very different process, and it's already done at the factory before the engines are assembled. The temperatures required for heat treating are much higher than an engine will ever reach during operation. The idea of breaking the engine in using "heat cycles" is a myth that came from the misunderstanding of the concept of "heat treating". But I guess you knew that, considering everything else you know

 

It has nothing to do with heat treating. That information came from inside your head.

 

It has to do with gradual heat transfer into unlike metals and varying tolerances, so the metals don't gall during break in. 

 

The inside of the motor expands and contracts at different rates as the metals anneal for the first hour or so of running.

A large portion of the parts in the motor have no heat treating done to them (forged, cast, billet, etc) so their expansion and contraction properties and slightly non-linear, for a short period.

 

If you break that into (3) 15 min periods, the motor internals will anneal at a slower rate, preventing 'over-tolerencing', galling, and premature sealing issues.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galling

 

 

It's not magic, and it's used by BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, Ferrarri, Lamborhini, Ducati, etc, etc, on all of their production motors.

The Japanese do not even start the off road motors before shipping them, and only dyno the street motors for less than 45 seconds.

 

In order to get hardened piston rings to seal properly against soft steel or nikasil hard coating, the rings must be allowed to experience as much rpm variation as possible during the first hour of operation. 

 

"Race" breaking in is also valid, but not for a brand new motor. More for a new top end or similar.

Edited by Krannie

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Lol bolin . On a serious note I think a better term than "breakin" would b seating rings.
And now back onto my valve ?. Is it possible to get 200 plus hours on the Ti valves with good filter maintenance?

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Lol bolin . On a serious note I think a better term than "breakin" would b seating rings.

And now back onto my valve ?. Is it possible to get 200 plus hours on the Ti valves with good filter maintenance?

Yes. 

 Filter maintenance, good oil, and not visiting the rev limiter. 

I got to 250-ish on my first go round. New OEM TRX SS valves and parts, Piston etc, and now I'm at 660+ hours and third piston, and the valves have not moved yet.

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Good grief, you are not going to anneal engine parts by running a motor, and on another note why would you want to anyways? Heat treat hardens metal, annealing makes it softer and more workable...

Edited by grayracer513
remove off topic personal nonsense

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I'm not sure about the "heat cycle" part, but certainly varying the throttle for about the first 15 minutes certainly does help seat rings better.  There's not an engine mfg out there that recommends otherwise (bike, auto, or whatever).  But if you change your rings a lot, that probably doesn't matter so much.

 

 On the valves, you get what you get out of the TI valves, but I don't see any need to replace them just because you've reached xxx hours.

 

As Krannie has said, when they start to move, then start keeping a closer eye on them.  Typically when they do, then you are not far from a valve job.

But somewhat atypical, I had to shim both intakes on my 250 once in '10, and since then they haven't moved again.

 

I don't ride in dusty conditions though and I'm fanatical about air filter maintenance.  Keep a lot of grease on the gasket side too to keep it sealed tight.

 

Of course your mileage may vary, but keep a close eye on them once they start moving.

 

Jim.

Edited by JimDettman

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Thanks for the replies guys. Jim here on long island all we have is dusty conditions unless its raining. I installed the loudmoth filter awhile back and no grease is needed anymore and behind the filter is spotless everytime I clean it.

As far as staying off the limiter I'm not gonna say I'm a stranger but its not often. Ill run it another 50 hours and checkem thanks for the tips.

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Please explain?

 

I thought it was pretty much self explanatory.

Let me spell it out for you. Your idea that Kranny was suggesting that the "heat cycle" is to heat treat or harden any of the engine internals. That is moronic.

I build diesel engines for a living and I also tinker on the several bikes I have. There are a lot of people smarter than me when it comes to building bike engines. While there are a lot of different opinions on the "break-in" method, the one thing you chose to challenge is based on your lack of knowledge on metallurgy.

Now, I break in all engines the same way. From bike motors, all the way up to 1200 HP diesel engines. First, I don't use a lot of oil when install pistons, its been my experience that too much is counter productive to a good ring seal.

After assembly I start engine and let idle for one heat cycle. This is the time I check for leaks and such. This is also the time the engine internals will "anneal" ( I think you had a beef with that as well). As engine internals warm they move, I like to think of this process as "everything is finding a home".  While many believe more heat cycles are needed, my experience has proven I only need one. What happens next is I run the bike or machine like striped-ass ape.I put it under as big a load I can. With bikes I use a long sandy wash close by my house and do three or four trips through that. The first being at half to three quarter throttle, then, PINNED.

My advice to you would be to quit calling people out on things you have no knowledge of. You will always fight a losing battle. I don't apologize for calling you a moron but I shouldn't have said it for the integrity of this fine forum.

Have a nice day!!

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Your lack of metallurgy shines in your post...there is no way you are going to anneal any of your motor parts by running it. The operating temps of a motor don't come close to the temps you need to anneal metal. You my friend are a sad excuse for an engine builder, and you are the one fighting a losing battle...have fun on krannie nuts

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