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I want to build a 450 SuperMoto!

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Ive been a SuperMotoJunky (hence the SN) for quite some time and have been riding my DRZ on the street. Ive been an avid motorcyclist for many years with plenty of track days under my belt, but i just recently took my DRZ to a track day, and i think im hooked!!

 

I want to build a 450 SuperMoto!!

 

Any recomendations on where to start? I hear so many different things about the benifits of the later fuel injection models, compared to the carburated models, the weight difference, etc.

 

Im leaning towards a CRF450R (hard to beat honda reliability, correct me if im wrong) but i have been a Yamaha fan for quite some time, so im also not opposed to the YZ450F.

 

I thought about the Husky 510 for its 6th gear, but the maintenance schedule kinda scared me off of that.

 

Any thoughts are welcome!!

 

A pic of me on my DRZ at my most recent track day, just for shiggles!

_DSC3906.JPG

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Where are you located?  In SoCal there is Adams/Apex and Grange cart tracks.  Plenty of nice already done bikes pop up all the time.  If you are going to build your own from a 450MX bike I would recommend a CRF or YZF for reliability and availability of parts.  The YZ's are particularly stout.  I just sold my 07 YZ with 250 hours mostly supermoto track and race days with just routine maintenance.  Valves still in spec and never adjusted.

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Ahh go with whatever floats your boat I haven't really heard of any bikes to stay away from while making one. I would go crf450 but that's all preference... My friend on the other hand has a 09 yz450f for street use that I've seen no problems on as of yet.

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I, if I were you would go with A Zook RMZ. Why? You could swap parts back and forth. Your SM wheels on the RMZ, and the MX wheels on the DRZ for some dual sporting. Mx wheels back on the RMZ for some mx track duty, etc...... Would be one helluva combination!

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Novel idea about the RMZ, but i hear they are the heaviest of the bunch, is this true?

No, and an RMZ is a damned good bike!

I don't think DRZ and RMZ wheels are not interchangeable.

No doesn't look like they are....that would be too easy

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I'm currently in the process of sticking a 09 crf450r motor into a vertemati 501sm. Should be pretty fun when it's done, honda dependability with the look and feel of the vert :)

I'm sure no matter what 450 you go with it will be fun!

Edited by Scott0

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RMZ and DRZ wheels are not interchangeable. 

 

Several things to consider really.  Only bikes you really have to watch out for are the earlier honda 450s.  I think they like to eat heads.  All my bikes have been stone cold reliable. 

 

The best/most popular bikes are KTMs for good reason.  Their chassis is very good and actually flexes unlike all the jap bikes with their twinspar frames.  This is important at extreme lean angles when suspension isnt doing much for you.  Chassis flex is a big thing.  Also KTM offers a factory SM and you can easily get parts.  For instance a factory set of SM triple clamps, adjustable, are around $400 for upper/lower.  Also their wheels interchange with nearly all other KTM models(and the rear hub fits a drz ;)). 

 

I was like you, i rode my drz on the track 3 times then got a 450.  I really enjoy my RMZ but i wanted a better chassis.  Not that its bad, but i liked the way the ktms felt on the track.  If you are thinking about racing then you will want a 450, but if you still want a street bike you can get a 500exc and get a great motor, fuel injection, street legal, roughly 250lbs.

 

Bikes to avoid.  early crf's unless they have had head/valve work.  08 rmz unless it has an 09 motor.  pretty much any model the first year it went FI.  My 07 rmz is 4 speed, just like most other bikes around this time.  as long as its a cart track its not a big deal.  Biggest problem is shifting through N.  look at models that span several years.  RMZ 05-06 models were the same, 07 was updated then change in 08.  Other models have similar stories but i dont know of any that were a 1 off year.  Ktms used various states or their RFS(racing four stroke) motor up until i think 06.  07 450sxf i hear is one to avoid.  08+ is the rf4 motor(like i have).  11+ models(for SXF and SMR) have a Non PDS suspension setup which is linkage type like all other mx bikes.  Older bikes and off road versions(exc, xcf...) are PDS which is just a shock, no linkage.

 

My 12 ktm is still carb.  the biggest issue with carb is that the transition from off to on throttle in slow corners can be jerky cause of the accelerator pump setup.  Not really a big deal just different.  KTM had a dungey replica in 12(orange frame) that was FI.  13 model was unicam and FI factory.

 

 

To build a good handling SM track bike you need to obviously put 17s on(16.5 front), but the big thing in addition to rims and brakes is really getting the front end geometry right.  Lower offset triple clamps.  Any bike has parts available but i have been happy with the OEM parts prices for KTM which is a big concern.  Build quality is high on them as well.  Typically their resale value is a little higher but for good reason.

 

My choice would be

KTM450

13 CRF450

Steel frame yz450

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and just an fyi.  DRZ rear hub interchanges with a KTM rear hub(different spacers).  DRZ front hub can interchange with a yz front hub(different spacers).  yz450 and drz400 even share the same rotor bolt pattern.(and yz250.  I have a yz250 two stroke front rim on my drz400 since i didnt need the speedo drive)

 

9810644834_4bab354516_b.jpg

Edited by shift1313

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RMZ and DRZ wheels are not interchangeable. 

 

Several things to consider really.  Only bikes you really have to watch out for are the earlier honda 450s.  I think they like to eat heads.  All my bikes have been stone cold reliable. 

 

The best/most popular bikes are KTMs for good reason.  Their chassis is very good and actually flexes unlike all the jap bikes with their twinspar frames.  This is important at extreme lean angles when suspension isnt doing much for you.  Chassis flex is a big thing.  Also KTM offers a factory SM and you can easily get parts.  For instance a factory set of SM triple clamps, adjustable, are around $400 for upper/lower.  Also their wheels interchange with nearly all other KTM models(and the rear hub fits a drz ;)). 

 

I was like you, i rode my drz on the track 3 times then got a 450.  I really enjoy my RMZ but i wanted a better chassis.  Not that its bad, but i liked the way the ktms felt on the track.  If you are thinking about racing then you will want a 450, but if you still want a street bike you can get a 500exc and get a great motor, fuel injection, street legal, roughly 250lbs.

 

Bikes to avoid.  early crf's unless they have had head/valve work.  08 rmz unless it has an 09 motor.  pretty much any model the first year it went FI.  My 07 rmz is 4 speed, just like most other bikes around this time.  as long as its a cart track its not a big deal.  Biggest problem is shifting through N.  look at models that span several years.  RMZ 05-06 models were the same, 07 was updated then change in 08.  Other models have similar stories but i dont know of any that were a 1 off year.  Ktms used various states or their RFS(racing four stroke) motor up until i think 06.  07 450sxf i hear is one to avoid.  08+ is the rf4 motor(like i have).  11+ models(for SXF and SMR) have a Non PDS suspension setup which is linkage type like all other mx bikes.  Older bikes and off road versions(exc, xcf...) are PDS which is just a shock, no linkage.

 

My 12 ktm is still carb.  the biggest issue with carb is that the transition from off to on throttle in slow corners can be jerky cause of the accelerator pump setup.  Not really a big deal just different.  KTM had a dungey replica in 12(orange frame) that was FI.  13 model was unicam and FI factory.

 

 

To build a good handling SM track bike you need to obviously put 17s on(16.5 front), but the big thing in addition to rims and brakes is really getting the front end geometry right.  Lower offset triple clamps.  Any bike has parts available but i have been happy with the OEM parts prices for KTM which is a big concern.  Build quality is high on them as well.  Typically their resale value is a little higher but for good reason.

 

My choice would be

KTM450

13 CRF450

Steel frame yz450

While KTM hard parts has some deals KTM OEM parts are ridiculous.  I just had to spend 70 bucks for a throttle cable.  I also disagree with your take on aluminum frame bikes. I have ridden all the bikes you mention and while they are all good there is no way I would pick a steel frame YZ over a newer model.  There is no comparison and it is more than just frame material.

 

I do agree with your choices KTM/Honda/Yamaha.  There is a ton of parts and set up knowledge on the local scene for these.  The others not so much. 

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All I know is things like hardware and plastics OEM from KTM are WAY cheaper than the jap bikes.  example, KTM airbox which is also the side panels so its cosmetic.  $30!  Suzuki. $400....  I wasn't talking about the hardparts but the OEM part.  I bought a bunch of OEM parts for my SXF when i converted it.  Like all the OEM rotor and sprocket hardware, oem rear rotor etc.  Super cheap compared to yam/suz/kaw/hon prices.  the jap mfg's don't want to sell their parts or make their parts.  Also things like the KTM factory SMR axle sliders were $35 bucks.  Came with the sliders, nice light threaded tube and replacement axle hardware.  You spend $120 for a cheap all thread axle slider from any other company.

 

In the end you have to buy the same components, wheels, brakes, slipper etc.  Their prices are relatively the same for all bikes.  If you can save $500+ on using ktm triple clamps rather than buying aftermarket thats a huge chunk that can go somewhere else.  Also things like the factory components such as exhaust are high quality and super light.  The ktm Ti header is 1/3 the weight of the factory suzuki ti header and its bigger.

 

The backwards motor yz has a weird weight balance.  I might take a pre '10 model but i still think the steel frame chassis is better suited to SM.  matter of opinion though.  any bike can be made into a good SM.  KTMs take less money.

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I have owned a 03,04,07 yz's plus I help a lot of guys with set up so I have ridden many more. I actually ran my 04 and 07 with the exact same suspension and wheels so I can directly compare the steel to aluminum frame with no other variables. I have a friend who is a pro level rider who just switched from yz to ktm and says the ktm handles a bit better. I am not talking to him anymore!

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I use my bike for MX and supermoto so I ran a 22MM on my 07 as a compromise.  I know guys that run 12/13 and like it but I thought it was too much.  I ran some 17's I liked that was a nice compromise between corner stability and light steering.  Most people use clamps to mask other set up problems.  Clamps for me are the last piece of the puzzle to wring out that very last bit of performance.  They don't magically fix everything.

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