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Help Needed - 450RS vs 520RS

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Okay, need everyone's help here.  I've decided on just about everything for my BYOB, except for whether I should get the 450RS or the 520RS?  :rolleyes: I'm flopping back and forth, but I am leaning 450.  I've talk to a bunch of folks many here on TT and it has left me stuck on this issue.  So I am asking someone to please convince me one way or another.  I know this is a lot to ask so any input on any of the issues will be greatly appreciated! :thumbsup:


 


My thought is the 520 is going to fatigue  my old bones quickly on the single tracks and really be no fun. However, with the Rekluse, it might take the edge off the grunt.  The 450 will be more civilized, but it will be a little short on power and get  more abuse on any street riding  (though I dont foresee much).  I haven't had a new bike in a while so I want to get this right. 


 

I'm an old fat fart.  Im 45yrs old and weigh 225-235lb (depending on the size of the burrito I had for lunch.)  I plan on  running a couple of Enduros and riding organized DS rides that are focused on a high ratio of dirt vs. street and trail riding with my wife.   I live in Northern California and ride mostly at Cow Mt., upperlake, Stonyford. etc.  I also plan to ride up in Georgetown as I have family there with a ranch and plan riding a bunch up there.  


 


Also, I need a little input on the following BYOB upgrades:


Springs for my fat ass….I like my bikes a little on the soft side…how stiff are Betas sprung?  How many steps below my weight should I go for a setup on the soft side?


HP waterpump - Is this necessary?


hand guards - which of the hand guards are better?  Enduro Engineering or Acerbis or BRP or Beta hand guards or some others all together.


Beta folding levers or Arc folding levers - Are these any good? are they necessary? 


 


Here is the rest of  my BYOB setup:


 


Rekluse EXP Clutch


clutch slave cover


carb vent filter


Flex-Jet


fork springs


shock spring


fork bleeder


cush drive


brake rotor protector


IMS Oversized tank


radiator guards


LHRB


axle pull ft


axle pull rr


Sharkfin rotor protector


radiator guards

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A new beta for xmas - you must have been a good boy this year!

I'm an even older fart, around the same weight and 6.3 tall. Had the same dilemma and was fortunate to spend quite a bit of time on all the beta 4t's before making my choice. Also rode with two local trials champions who did things with the beta enduro bikes which defy physics. Strange as it may seem they both rode 498/520's.

After my testing I understood why and settled on the the 498 for the following reasons almost no weight difference than even the 350 - 500grams, the power delivery is the most linear I've felt on any bike and more controllable than the 450, it has a ton of tourque even at very low revs, it has a chugging ability that finds traction where others faulter, no stalling, its as nimble as the others but has a very fast pull away and top end if you twist its ear in anger.

To me tr he 450 is more of a racer while the 498 is a versatile traction machine that you can ride lazy and all day long in any conditions.

You will need to upgrade the fork springs and the shock as standard they will be soft for you weight. Get the higher capacity battery, change the rear tyre from the standard crappy one the factory fits and add the fan if not standard. Not heard of any reason to change the waterpump but maybe in certain conditions its useful. Others may know more. I've found that these bikes with fan and decent coolant don't overheat even in grinding slow tech riding.

Otherwise get fit and practice smiling in the meanwhile - you'll need it when the beta arrives.

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Both bikes share the same bottom end components, same weight ,same gyro effect. I'd go for the one with the 100 mm piston.

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Okay, need everyone's help here.  I've decided on just about everything for my BYOB, except for whether I should get the 450RS or the 520RS?  :rolleyes: I'm flopping back and forth, but I am leaning 450.  I've talk to a bunch of folks many here on TT and it has left me stuck on this issue.  So I am asking someone to please convince me one way or another.  I know this is a lot to ask so any input on any of the issues will be greatly appreciated! :thumbsup:

 

My thought is the 520 is going to fatigue  my old bones quickly on the single tracks and really be no fun. However, with the Rekluse, it might take the edge off the grunt.  The 450 will be more civilized, but it will be a little short on power and get  more abuse on any street riding  (though I dont foresee much).  I haven't had a new bike in a while so I want to get this right. 

 

I'm an old fat fart.  Im 45yrs old and weigh 225-235lb (depending on the size of the burrito I had for lunch.)  I plan on  running a couple of Enduros and riding organized DS rides that are focused on a high ratio of dirt vs. street and trail riding with my wife.   I live in Northern California and ride mostly at Cow Mt., upperlake, Stonyford. etc.  I also plan to ride up in Georgetown as I have family there with a ranch and plan riding a bunch up there.  

 

Also, I need a little input on the following BYOB upgrades:

Springs for my fat ass….I like my bikes a little on the soft side…how stiff are Betas sprung?  How many steps below my weight should I go for a setup on the soft side?

HP waterpump - Is this necessary?

hand guards - which of the hand guards are better?  Enduro Engineering or Acerbis or BRP or Beta hand guards or some others all together.

Beta folding levers or Arc folding levers - Are these any good? are they necessary? 

 

Here is the rest of  my BYOB setup:

 

Rekluse EXP Clutch

clutch slave cover

carb vent filter

Flex-Jet

fork springs

shock spring

fork bleeder

cush drive

brake rotor protector

IMS Oversized tank

radiator guards

LHRB

axle pull ft

axle pull rr

Sharkfin rotor protector

radiator guards

 

I'd get the radiator fan... and since you are getting all the other stuff I'd get the HF impellar too. To me it's more important . To me the 520 is a super easy bike to ride and you can be lazy on the bike and still have a handful of power if you like...but all of them are easy to ride. I'm just about 54 and also an old fart rider too.. trying to fight it and make believe I'm not. Usually it seems all the Beta rr's come sprung soft stock. My bike came great and plush stock. As time went on I got stiffer suspension. I was 230 and I wear a heavy backpack and I'm 6'1". I've lost about 20 lbs and my bike is still very plush even with the stiffer springs. I don't think you will fatigue more with the 520 . I think my big bore Beta is super easy to ride . Wow... so many posts on guys ordering bikes.. BYOB really is fun. It adds to the excitment to choose all the cool things and have it on already. You have all the goodies!!!

 

As far as hand guards that's personal preference. I got some cheap composite cycra guards that I thought I would have dumped by now and it's still here 4 yrs later. It keeps getting blasted and I bend them back down or up and keep going . They aren't great but there should be a little more flex allowed in the bars to reduce vibration etc. idk.  I think I'd get some cycra pros now but really it's whatever you like the look of . 

 

You might look at these. These look pretty good.

 

http://www.highwaydirtbikes.com/HDB_Shop/

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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450 vs 520?  The 520 RS is the same cc's as the 498 RR, so it isn't that much more than a 450.  I got the 520 and also live in Northern CA area, and I like the 520 a lot.  Stock it is pretty mellow.

 

Don't know about springs for your weight.

 

I like the Cycra guards but you can't get those thru BYOB.  And if you get the guards why get the folding levers??

 

Looks like a good build.  Only thing I'd suggest is the softer seat foam.  On my 2013 the seat foam was firmer than KTMs!  I ended up with the Gutts Medium foam and really like it, the foam has the density of Japanese moto-x bikes (like a CRF450R).

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450 vs 520?  The 520 RS is the same cc's as the 498 RR, so it isn't that much more than a 450.  I got the 520 and also live in Northern CA area, and I like the 520 a lot.  Stock it is pretty mellow.

 

Don't know about springs for your weight.

 

I like the Cycra guards but you can't get those thru BYOB.  And if you get the guards why get the folding levers??

 

Looks like a good build.  Only thing I'd suggest is the softer seat foam.  On my 2013 the seat foam was firmer than KTMs!  I ended up with the Gutts Medium foam and really like it, the foam has the density of Japanese moto-x bikes (like a CRF450R).

I'm pretty sure i've seen your youtube videos.  You should change your screen name to stillamfast!  Your cookin right along on your RS!  Nice videos!  Also, your flying pretty good on one of my favorite roads....That is Old Page Mill, isn't it?  We have probably past each other over the years!

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I like the Cycra guards but you can't get those thru BYOB.  And if you get the guards why get the folding levers??

 

 

 

I got the folding Arc levers for the comfort factor. And I still managed to curl the brake lever even with hand guards. I did not like the "boxy" feel of the factory folding levers. If you ask, I'm willing to bet that Tim will hook you up with Cycra guards or whatever else you want. Lots of stuff can be added on the BYOB that's not listed on the AB website.

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I got the 520 due to the long 100+ mile freeway miles to the riding areas. I'm very pleased with the low end grunt and easy rideability of the motor. Another plus (with 498cc's) is when you get into high elevations over 10,000'. This last weekend I went from 4900-10,400 without touching a thing on my carb. the bike never failed to start, did not sputter or stall, and suffered from nothing more than a little power loss due to thin air.

 

Something else to think about is the gearing. IMO 14/48 is the magic number for almost everything. For mountain trails and hard core single track , just drop the countershaft to a 13. FWIW, with 14/48 gearing, you can spin the motor at 80+ mph freeway speeds all day long without turning it into a buzz bomb. 

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You can't go wrong with either.

I faced the same question, and think either will treat you great.

 

I, as you know believed that the 520 would do me fine and I ordered one, then after a week I kept going over my decision I decided to change my order and go with the 450.

 

At least for me the slightly smaller motor fits me as a rider just a little bit better. I went back through the last few dual-sport bikes I've owned; Husky570, ATK605, CRF450x, RXV550. I evaluated my thoughts on each of them, as I rode each one on a 2-day Dual Sport (Sheetiron) event over the years. Same trails, same time of year, I made the first and second stage of this ride in the same amount of time on all of the bikes, yet the little 450x did not wear me out the way the bigger bikes did. Now we are talking slightly, but still a little.

 

That new road test from CycleNews on the 2014 450RR seemed to lean towards the 450 has a strong bottom and mid-range with a softer top-end. Very similar to my old modified 450x.

 

Both the 450 or the 520 will make a pretty much perfect dual-sport machine!

 

Oh yeah, gearing as Chris stated gearing is important. I ordered 14/50 for my 450rs, which is slightly higher than the 450RR. 

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I would say go with the 450.it would do everything you are looking to do with the bike and be a little more fun in the technical conditions.ps.45 is now  old???ouch!Dan

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Both bikes share the same bottom end components, same weight ,same gyro effect. I'd go for the one with the 100 mm piston.

Was ruminating about your post.....so wouldn't this be an argument for the 450?  Would there be more force on the bottom end of the of the 520 due to its larger piston.  And if the components are the same then the 450, it would seem, would be more durable.  No?  

 

Or am I over thinking this whole thing?  What is that phrase..."over analysis leads to paralysis".

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I want to keep the stock exhaust on the bike because I HATE loud bikes!  And if the OE exhaust keeps the bike a little corked up, then I need to rethink ----- probably order the 520. This and considering Chris' comments about altitude.... hmmmmm.  You all may have swayed me.

 

Now to pick a dealership......Hey anyone want to comment/recommend  Beta dealers, feel free to PM me but don't post anything publicly.  I dont want any public sharing on that topic!  Should I haul my butt down to GetDirty?  Or maybe the that dealer in Paso Robles, Brown Cycles, they are in the same town as American Beta, they may have a special relationship with Beta?   There's Dan at Motoxotica, John at Moore and Sons, and those newer dealers....

 

Oh, I live in Pacifica CA.  (just south of San Francisco)  

 

THANKS YOU GUYS!  :thumbsup:   And if anyone thinks of anything else, feel free to post or PM!

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A new beta for xmas - you must have been a good boy this year!

I'm an even older fart, around the same weight and 6.3 tall. Had the same dilemma and was fortunate to spend quite a bit of time on all the beta 4t's before making my choice. Also rode with two local trials champions who did things with the beta enduro bikes which defy physics. Strange as it may seem they both rode 498/520's.

After my testing I understood why and settled on the the 498 for the following reasons almost no weight difference than even the 350 - 500grams, the power delivery is the most linear I've felt on any bike and more controllable than the 450, it has a ton of tourque even at very low revs, it has a chugging ability that finds traction where others faulter, no stalling, its as nimble as the others but has a very fast pull away and top end if you twist its ear in anger.

To me tr he 450 is more of a racer while the 498 is a versatile traction machine that you can ride lazy and all day long in any conditions.

You will need to upgrade the fork springs and the shock as standard they will be soft for you weight. Get the higher capacity battery, change the rear tyre from the standard crappy one the factory fits and add the fan if not standard. Not heard of any reason to change the waterpump but maybe in certain conditions its useful. Others may know more. I've found that these bikes with fan and decent coolant don't overheat even in grinding slow tech riding.

Otherwise get fit and practice smiling in the meanwhile - you'll need it when the beta arrives.

 

 

I'd get the radiator fan... and since you are getting all the other stuff I'd get the HF impellar too. To me it's more important . To me the 520 is a super easy bike to ride and you can be lazy on the bike and still have a handful of power if you like...but all of them are easy to ride. I'm just about 54 and also an old fart rider too.. trying to fight it and make believe I'm not. Usually it seems all the Beta rr's come sprung soft stock. My bike came great and plush stock. As time went on I got stiffer suspension. I was 230 and I wear a heavy backpack and I'm 6'1". I've lost about 20 lbs and my bike is still very plush even with the stiffer springs. I don't think you will fatigue more with the 520 . I think my big bore Beta is super easy to ride . Wow... so many posts on guys ordering bikes.. BYOB really is fun. It adds to the excitment to choose all the cool things and have it on already. You have all the goodies!!!

 

As far as hand guards that's personal preference. I got some cheap composite cycra guards that I thought I would have dumped by now and it's still here 4 yrs later. It keeps getting blasted and I bend them back down or up and keep going . They aren't great but there should be a little more flex allowed in the bars to reduce vibration etc. idk.  I think I'd get some cycra pros now but really it's whatever you like the look of . 

 

You might look at these. These look pretty good.

 

http://www.highwaydirtbikes.com/HDB_Shop/

Wow those NexGen guards look super cool.  Like the mirrors too.   Oh about guards.  I'll probably upgrade the handlebars to those carbon composite ones.  I love the carbon bars I have on my mt. bike.  They really smoothed out the vibration. I imagine that they will do the same on the Beta.  So I'll need something that is compatible....Maybe I'll wait on the guards.  Get them later. 

 

What is the downside of the HP water pump?  more wear on the drive mechanism?  Why wouldn't they put it on stock?

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I want to keep the stock exhaust on the bike because I HATE loud bikes!  And if the OE exhaust keeps the bike a little corked up, then I need to rethink ----- probably order the 520. This and considering Chris' comments about altitude.... hmmmmm.  You all may have swayed me.

 

Now to pick a dealership......Hey anyone want to comment/recommend  Beta dealers, feel free to PM me but don't post anything publicly.  I dont want any public sharing on that topic!  Should I haul my butt down to GetDirty?  Or maybe the that dealer in Paso Robles, Brown Cycles, they are in the same town as American Beta, they may have a special relationship with Beta?   There's Dan at Motoxotica, John at Moore and Sons, and those newer dealers....

 

Oh, I live in Pacifica CA.  (just south of San Francisco)  

 

THANKS YOU GUYS!  :thumbsup:   And if anyone thinks of anything else, feel free to post or PM!

 

I know you said to keep dealer info in PM but Im posting anyways. I got my 520 from Browns and they did an outstanding job and are very personable folks. Browns sets up all the bikes for the BYOB then ships to dealers for pickup. I have also heard very good things about Get Dirty and lets not forget George at Uptite in Orange.

Edited by Mckay
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Lets talk tires.  What works best for the Beta? 

By far, the Kenda 760 Trackmasters have been the best hard core knobby that's DOT rated.

 

OTOH the Kenda 270 was a great 50/50 tire. The only problem was peeling off and tearing knobs. Not the fault of the tire. When you blaze down the freeway for 100+ miles with 10lbs in the tires, not much of anything will last.

 

I have a set of Motoz IT's mounted on my Tubliss wheel set. As soon as I wear out my Trackmasters I will put those on and see how they do.

 

Another dirty little secret is to use the narrowest Knobby you can find for the rear (for off road). It really helps within the turning. 

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One more point on this set up I tried to order my 520rs with the cush hub also, but you also have to upgrade the wheel set to do that.  It goes with the upgraded hubs.   :(   I think the rekluse will help with the issue on pavment that the cush hub fixes.

 

Hafte1

 

P.S. 45 ain't old. :naughty:   Try starting this sport up when you are 50.  :ride:

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Wow those NexGen guards look super cool.  Like the mirrors too.   Oh about guards.  I'll probably upgrade the handlebars to those carbon composite ones.  I love the carbon bars I have on my mt. bike.  They really smoothed out the vibration. I imagine that they will do the same on the Beta.  So I'll need something that is compatible....Maybe I'll wait on the guards.  Get them later. 

 

What is the downside of the HP water pump?  more wear on the drive mechanism?  Why wouldn't they put it on stock?

 

I've never seen any downside on any bike that would have a high flow waterpump. I'm figuring it's just an upgrade that's available like any upgrade. I go in tight slow stuff so I'd figure it would address overheating issues a little better. It's just up to you if you want to pay for an upgrade or not... Stock is fine from what I've heard but I'd upgrade for cooling. I  think if you are going   with the twisted engineering bars you may have to get some alternative guards that go with the flex of the bars. There's some on their website and I'm guessing the ones for the flexx bars.. a certain cycra I think might be in order. Otherwise the highway guards might defeat the purpose .

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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I like the carbon composite bars as well and they really make sense if you buy them with the applicable guards. Someday when I have an extra $400.00 I'll snap them up.

BUT I will not go out on my trails without handlebar guards EVER. Never ever!! Not even for a few hours on a new bike or old. I get on a nice trail, and I want to rail it in many sections, no matter what I'm on. Any slight slip or a grappy rear or slippery front tire can throw me into a tree or rock or?? and I'm on the deck.

$85.00 for EE guards on the BYOB is sooooo worth it to me, even if I toss them in 6 months to a years time...... I already know how expensive surgery is on my hands. ;-)

Cheapest insurance known to man or hands!

Wow those NexGen guards look super cool.  Like the mirrors too.   Oh about guards.  I'll probably upgrade the handlebars to those carbon composite ones.  I love the carbon bars I have on my mt. bike.  They really smoothed out the vibration. I imagine that they will do the same on the Beta.  So I'll need something that is compatible....Maybe I'll wait on the guards.  Get them later. 

 

What is the downside of the HP water pump?  more wear on the drive mechanism?  Why wouldn't they put it on stock?

 
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Lets talk tires.  What works best for the Beta? 

Ballisticexchris would know more about the mix with road riding..For the majority offroad I'm liking the Motoz . You have to work on which one as they are varied in how they work. I now have the terrapactor ST (soft terrain) which is a light soft walled tire tire that cleans out good for clay mud. The tractionator is heavier and much more stiffer sidewalled. The ST version kind of refused to wear out . My buddy had it on his ktm 450 and changed it because he just wanted to try something else to compare. He had it on like a year and a half although there weren't many road miles on it.. only offroad. Right to the end it still hooked up. I have it here to put on my gasgas to try later on.. just to see how it works.  So many have said some trials tires work and some say not. I haven't tried so I can't say.  I don't know what I'll try next for a tire . If I start actually riding on the road I might try some kenda's too. I've heard those work pretty good from a variety of people and the price is right. . but I might try some trials for behind just to see. So many swear up and  bown it's great. I've seen it not work great on others bikes in the trail.. on offcamber wet clay for one but to be clear I ought to try myself and use it in a variety of situations to see what elements are good and not so good.

Edited by hawaiidirtrider

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