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California What happened to Jawbone/Dove Springs?

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Guys,

 

I had to take a break from riding a lot the last few years because of my kids. I just went to Dove Springs and rode to Lake Isabella and back. I could not believe how much stuff is closed....not only that but every sandwash that I went on had been bulldosed flat? I was heart broken. I've been going there for over 30 years. WTF? Where can I ride where its not closed and there are still some natural features left??

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Guys,

 

I had to take a break from riding a lot the last few years because of my kids. I just went to Dove Springs and rode to Lake Isabella and back. I could not believe how much stuff is closed....not only that but every sandwash that I went on had been bulldosed flat? I was heart broken. I've been going there for over 30 years. &%$#@!? Where can I ride where its not closed and there are still some natural features left??

Its disgusting isn't it.. We used to camp in Dove and would ride the most unreal single track , up and over mountains,pine tress and wicked steep down hills.. Now they have put dozer blades and dug ravines that make it very difficult to get around..

So ill piss a few of you off and admit it doesn't stop my group , it makes it hard on the less skilled because you really have to be able to navigate some dangerous stuff.. I mean the area is all but closed anyway and I don't know why other than more sierra club Nazis getting their way with our trails....

So what was a great spot to do long weekend camping has turned into maybe a once a year ride with the boys (who rip) and can handle some endurocross type obstacles at speed... I wish I had some go-pro of some of our rides before the closure, it was amazing riding, the kind that separates the men from the boys .....

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Whats left is the result of land owners...  BLM...  and FOJ having meetings and creating solutions.  They say what we have is the alternative to having nothing.  I'm not so sure.  Me thinks too much talk leads to too much solutioning and too few dumbed down trails. 

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It didn't really stop us either. We found ways to get to our favorite single track. Its just crazy though. Why would they turn the place into a giant Razor highway?

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It didn't really stop us either. We found ways to get to our favorite single track. Its just crazy though. Why would they turn the place into a giant Razor highway?

Good, glad you did.. There needs to be a better reason than a ranger who works for me telling me whats what...

No idea who or why someone thinks that's better or ok.. In fact the first time we discovered this one of the little guys almost got off on a ditch that was placed in a blind area, I hit it wide open and tried stopping and jumping off my bike and while I was running back and waving my arms I see bikes  flying at me...

So the plan was to force the same amount of people into an area half the size?!?! That's safe .. reminds me of the Oceano dune closure, total circus and three times as dangerous because of over crowding....

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That's a good point about the overcrowding. Before I thought about it I found myself wide open through the some of the washes. I must have been going at least 80. I could only imaging what would happen if there was another guy coming at me that fast or a jeep or Razor in the wash....its like Gorman but bigger. Its interesting because I never really thought about Jawbone and Dove Springs as seperate areas and recently when I saw their published sizes in acres I was shocked at how small they are. Also, they have signs posted all over that say "Caution Area Fenced Ahead" or something like that. I really have a hard time swallowing the fact that so much tax money was spent on the fences and signs. I rode 60-65 miles each way to Bodfish/Isabella and the signs & fences were everywhere. Interestingly enough the desert was more fenced of than the Seqouia National Forest. That reminds me....there was also a sign that said something about the expansion of the Bright Star Wilderness....Wilderness is totally off limits too us...that's a blatant land grab.

Edited by QDRHRSE

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This all went down in 1986.  It took time for all the fencing.  People typically don't know whats going down till it's over.  I never rode the area till the early 90s.  Had NO CLUE what was coming...  and it had already been decided. 

Edited by Jeff aka BOLT

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That's a good point about the overcrowding. Before I thought about it I found myself wide open through the some of the washes. I must have been going at least 80. I could only imaging what would happen if there was another guy coming at me that fast or a jeep or Razor in the wash....its like Gorman but bigger. Its interesting because I never really thought about Jawbone and Dove Springs as seperate areas and recently when I saw their published sizes in acres I was shocked at how small they are. Also, they have signs posted all over that say "Caution Area Fenced Ahead" or something like that. I really have a hard time swallowing the fact that so much tax money was spent on the fences and signs. I rode 60-65 miles each way to Bodfish/Isabella and the signs & fences were everywhere. Interestingly enough the desert was more fenced of than the Seqouia National Forest.

I actually had that happen there at Dove on that trail that takes you too the water.. Its like a freeway. I was trying to herd all of the people that were lost everywhere and was having to ride back and forth, came around a blind one and avoided a major crash but clipped a peg and shifter.. It was my friend and were ok.

The fence thing pisses me off to no end... In mammoth (well north mammoth area up 395) they go through a massive effort with driving wooden post into the ground .. all I can say is they keep you warm at night :smirk:

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 it is sad,maybe it will motivate some riders to get involved with a local club and help keep and take care of what we have left.

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 it is sad,maybe it will motivate some riders to get involved with a local club and help keep and take care of what we have left.

 That would be what we would like to happen.  I give to many organizations that fight these battles when able..

They, the "other" side seem to have nothing better to do and all the time in the world to do it..  What really chaps my butt is they probably are getting funded in some way by us to fight us !! I stopped going to starbucks since I heard about sierra club funding but that's gonna take about 10 million more to do the same and let them know why we don't drink there over priced beans.

It pisses me off that we seem to always be behind the 8 ball and fighting an uphill battle.. We are always reactive in most of these cases ... Its like the last one to tell mom what happened gets his ass beat !

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It pisses me off that we seem to always be behind the 8 ball and fighting an uphill battle.. We are always reactive in most of these cases ...

 

Correct...  You guys are having this conversation about 6 years after I had my first WTF at Jawbone TT posting...  and many other guys have done the same before and after mine...   so yes you are waaaaaaaaaaaay behind on this one...  like I said decisions were made in 1986 ! 

 

I decided to get involved...  closest riding to me was Big Bear.  When I saw trails closed near Arrowhead I had enough.  Called Discovery Center...  they gave me a voice mail...  I left a pissed off message... RANGER actually called me back.  Said "Where were you two years ago when we were looking for OHV comments ?"

 

All these things happen at the location.  If you are NOT proactive you will NEVER save a trail.  When you hear about it...  it's TOO LATE.

 

So 5 years later we are about to get some new trails in Big Bear by end of 2014.  I have been to countless meetings...  begged...  and stayed involved. 

 

I was 47 when I started this process...  I am 52 now...  for ONE SET OF TRAILS !

 

If you want to really be part of the decision making process...  it takes LONG TERM effort and 100% commitment.  Nothing else makes a damn bit of difference...  in my opinion.

Edited by Jeff aka BOLT

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Correct...  You guys are having this conversation about 6 years after I had my first &%$#@! at Jawbone TT posting...  and many other guys have done the same before and after mine...   so yes you are waaaaaaaaaaaay behind on this one...  like I said decisions were made in 1986 ! 

 

I decided to get involved...  closest riding to me was Big Bear.  When I saw trails closed near Arrowhead I had enough.  Called Discovery Center...  they gave me a voice mail...  I left a pissed off message... RANGER actually called me back.  Said "Where were you two years ago when we were looking for OHV comments ?"

 

All these things happen at the location.  If you are NOT proactive you will NEVER save a trail.  When you hear about it...  it's TOO LATE.

 

So 5 years later we are about to get some new trails in Big Bear by end of 2014.  I have been to countless meetings...  begged...  and stayed involved. 

 

I was 47 when I started this process...  I am 52 now...  for ONE SET OF TRAILS !

 

If you want to really be part of the decision making process...  it takes LONG TERM effort and 100% commitment.  Nothing else makes a damn bit of difference...  in my opinion.

Yeah, you are correct and I applaud you're efforts thus far... At the risk of sounding naïve in regard to these types of legal matters, is there some sort of "proactive " method or process that could be done or at the very least started on areas that currently have no issues with shut down or are not being threatened ??  

So an area being used and enjoyed by us we begin now protecting it, so when these people look into land closure/seizure they see that the offroad community has already beaten them to the punch and have filed miles and miles of counter attack measures ..... This done with the hopes they will feel defeated early on..

Edited by regul8or

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Are they required to do some sort of public notice beyond a sign on a post in the middle of nowhere?

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There is the legal process...  it is full of red tape and a bunch of crap in my opinion.  Law does have to be followed..  but it is a very few people behind closed doors at the agencies that DECIDE what to pursue...  or not.  Public commenting is important.  But until you get into the right room and meet the right people it's hard to be more than a number.

 

You can look up the Agency Staff at any location...  BLM or USFS or State Parks and start at the top.  Start calling and find out where and when you can make a meeting.  It helps to have a real idea to promote about specific trail additions or improvements.  They'll be polite and push you off on lower level staff...  but if you stay polite and positive and solutions oriented...  and PERSISTENT you will infiltrate the decision makers meetings and your voice will be heard.

 

Green sticker Staff that approves and pays for this stuff is totally on YOUR side.  They watch the agencies carefully to make sure YOUR money gets spent as it was intended.  the whole thing is a POLITE ADVISORY SYSTEM.

 

If you ever have specific ideas and need help identifying who to talk to PM me.  I am pretty good at digging out the right names and contact info.  :thumbsup:

 

 

Just remember...  this is LOOOONG term stuff.  Nothing happens quickly.

Edited by Jeff aka BOLT
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There is the legal process...  it is full of red tape and a bunch of crap in my opinion.  Law does have to be followed..  but it is a very few people behind closed doors at the agencies that DECIDE what to pursue...  or not.  Public commenting is important.  But until you get into the right room and meet the right people it's hard to be more than a number.

 

You can look up the Agency Staff at any location...  BLM or USFS or State Parks and start at the top.  Start calling and find out where and when you can make a meeting.  It helps to have a real idea to promote about specific trail additions or improvements.  They'll be polite and push you off on lower level staff...  but if you stay polite and positive and solutions oriented...  and PERSISTENT you will infiltrate the decision makers meetings and your voice will be heard.

 

Green sticker Staff that approves and pays for this stuff is totally on YOUR side.  They watch the agencies carefully to make sure YOUR money gets spent as it was intended.  the whole thing is a POLITE ADVISORY SYSTEM.

 

If you ever have specific ideas and need help identifying who to talk to PM me.  I am pretty good at digging out the right names and contact info.  :thumbsup:

 

 

Just remember...  this is LOOOONG term stuff.  Nothing happens quickly.

all sounds very good and basically what I expected... Im all to familiar with how slow this wheel turns.

 

But what I was looking for was a more specific approach.. For instance the land grabbers thus far have been extremely successful with a specific strategy and loop hole if you ask me..

They have found an agency that excels at finding "potentially" endangered species (plants,animals) and getting land closures closed on the idea or possibility this "thing" could be forever extinct..  Its genius on their part, because no matter what the actual status it seems the area gets closed on the basis of "well lets go investigate this" ..  Half of glamis closed for a milk vetch weed !!! Im looking for a form filed in some law book protecting land that has been "already" designated public use or better public OHV use .. I sure people wont think we have a silver bullet but this could be from some land act back when they were giving it away during the homestead days....... maybe a witch hunt but man wouldn't that be sweet !

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The Endangered Species Act trumps all...  Water protection Act trumps all...    The enviros use those two Acts to sue all the time.  The Agencies do their best to reduce legal fees and avoid legal action.  But the CBD and others know if they sue the Agencies have to spend huge sums of money to fight...  or fold.

 

Personally I don't think the agencies work to help the enviros...  I think they just try to dodge the big dollar bullet...  and since we donate to groups that have never been as effective as the enviros we lose lose lose.   

 

With the economy in the toilet there is less enviro money attacking us right now. Thats good for awhile.  But Ocotillo is under attack so it's not completely under control.

 

You have a couple ways to go...  ignore the enviro attacks and react to them when they come up as needed. The other avenue is to work to CREATE more opportunities funded by green sticker dollars.  I prefer the later.  It's easier to create for me than fight lawsuits.  I have nothing to offer fighting lawsuits.  But I can get to know the agency folks and work with them on ideas that require green sticker grants to get us NEW trails or new land in existing areas OHV areas.  Reverse the trend in Dove or Jawbone if thats your thing. 

 

CORVA does a good job in their newsletter telling you what battles are underway.  It's worth the donation.  Stewards of the Sequoia is very involved and good at keeping you informed...  worth the donation.  But I find in my area in Big Bear that I know more than CORVA ever could.  People on the ground do make the difference if any can be made.  The DOT-ORGS have a larger view of things.  I think if we depend on them alone through our donations more and more will be lost.

 

Only a few wing nuts like me are ever gonna get involved so personally and directly...  and after 6 years when those trails do get OPEN SIGNS I am done.  It's been a long time...  I just wanna ride.  I will continue to support certain groups financially.  But it's somebody else's turn now for the hands on stuff.   :cheers:

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getting involved does work,go check out stewards of the sequoia national forest website,you will see actual results happening and trails being saved.there are a little amount of people fighting for a large amount of riders.

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getting involved does work,go check out stewards of the sequoia national forest website,you will see actual results happening and trails being saved.there are a little amount of people fighting for a large amount of riders.

 

Chris is a machine...  send him money and do a trail work day each year and he can get good things done.  It doesn't work like that with most of the DOT-ORGS.  His persistence and direct focus on one area is the key to his success.

Edited by Jeff aka BOLT

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Yep and Horgan is the person who used to tell me "I dont want any of those Jawbone people in MY Piutes" ay?

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