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2012 front end pushing

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I was wondering if any of you guys have had a problem with the front end pushing in corners. Is there anything I can do to fix this. I have suspension set up for me. I tried moving the forks. Didn't help. My friend said it might be my 10mm bar risers but they are kind of a necessity since I'm 6'5". I was thinking maybe a different offset of triple clamps would help. Do you guys have any ideas?

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I just rode my 2013 yesterday for the first time and it's bad in the sand.  The slightest thing and it grabs the front wheel.  My RMZ450 does it too but not as bad. 

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My KLX450R pushed like yours even with the forks 10mm above the triple. I installed Ride Engineering 21.5 Triples and is SO MUCH BETTER. .....

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pavetim, Any 2006-12 KX450F can be a joy or a nightmare in the sand. It totally depends on the clickers.  I know you have the 2013 air fork, and it's air spring is very progressive and that light feeling near full extension might be a problem. In case it helps I can tell you want works with normal forks:  In the sand go a little in/slower on the rebound, and as far in on the base comp clicker as you find works. Not enough damping and the front wheel will tuck and grab. That's to be expected.  Lower offset triples are worth trying if you ride a lot of soft sand. Also hard to compare diff bikes if the front tire is different. I have an S12 on the front of my KX because that tire and the bike is so good in sand. Just love it on a cool day when the sand is a little wet.

 

e11enz2, About pushing. I can suggest three main variables. 1. The height of the front relative to the rear.  2. The dampening settings. 3. The fork spring rate.  2 and 3 are about getting the right amount of front dive for the problem track or corner and your technique.

 

You said you tried moving the forks. Did you lower the front? How much?  Did you measure your rear sag to check the height, and then if it's greater than 105mm next try raising the rear to see what happens. One turn on the shock preload nut can greatly change the bike's turn in feel.

 

Did you try changing your fork clickers?  You said the suspension is setup for you, but the clickers will still have a massive impact. Find the test time and use them.  I find it's good to set the rebound clicker for the best traction and steering response, then I only change it (slower 1 click) for soft sand. Too fast on the reb and the front can push all day. Too slow on the fork reb and the front can also push because it'll feel disconnected from the dirt.   The fork comp clicker needs to be adjusted much more often. Softer for slick rough hardpack, or corners needing progressive gentle braking, or else can push wide with not enough front dive. Firmer fork comp clicker is needed as the dirt gets softer or your braking gets more aggressive, else the forks will dive too much, preventing you from keeping your body forward. Body too far aft = push wide.

 

The shock clickers can also affect turn in and certainly turn out. If the rear clickers are badly out then it can make you put your body in odd for/aft positions on the bike and that can throw out the balance and ruin your corner speed and line options.

 

The woes of the 450 ...  On a 250F or 2 stroke, this stuff doesn't matter so much.  BUT get the 450 setup right in the right conditions and it's oh so good!

 

I cannot help but to guess that people who say dirt bike speed is 95% rider and 5% (or less) bike, have not played around with setup on a fast 450 and measured the difference in their lap times and/or heart rate.

Edited by numroe

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I have S12's sitting in my room.  You think just the tires would make a difference?  I will probably slow down the rebound, speed up comp and probably about 37psi in the forks, maybe come up a lil in the clamps.

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Yes the right tire can make a big difference. It depends on what tire is on there, and what is the target dirt. In sand, compared to something like a M403, with an S12 your bike front steer much more responsively. I cannot count the number of times I've gone down in sand because I trusted the front, and I didn't have a sand suitable tire on there. Weird stuff happens and you get up thinking "what the ... ?" And usually it's just that a sand tire rides higher and steers the bike. Just try it.

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Ill try it in steps and see what each stage does, tires first

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Well put my sand tire on and did some tuning today.  Put forks up 5 mm, softenend up the rebound and it turns alot better actually got it to go other way and oversteer top of burms.  Still unstable in the sand but probably never going to be perfect.  Now to figure out how the compression effects the sand riding too.

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If you think you have a good base setting for hard or medium dirt, then for soft deepish sand you'd usually just go a couple of clicks firmer on the comp on the low speed on both ends, and usually one click slower on the reb on both ends. How much depends on how sensitive your susp is to clicker adjustments. If you want to blast around wooped out sand berms these clicker changes can make a massive difference.   If you are riding fast in sand on straights, then you'd normally lower the forks (front end higher). If you ride in soft sand a lot and/or your tracks are usually well groomed then you want 22 or 21mm triple offset instead of the stock 23. But the lower offset (and higher steering trail) often need firmer comp damping.  It's worth working on it. If you get it all right then the body energy required to ride per lap can be much less, sometimes way less effort.

Edited by numroe

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so since sand is so "unpredictable and soft would it be better to tune the bike on a dirt/clay track then just adjust the clickers for the sand?  Sorry but i'm new to suspension tuning and i'm trying to learn alot, i'm used to just getting on the bike and going but now i'm riding mx tracks i want to get this thing right.

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I don't think it matters on what kind of dirt you start tuning your setup on. You could dial it in on sand, then when you get onto harder dirt, you've at least now got some ideas on what to adjust. Just go the other way with those things.  It's normal to keep records and then revisit previous settings and learn and refine.

 

The hard part is that the adjustments impact each other. For example your bike could be over-steering at times mid corners. Where you position your body and how much you lean the chassis and apply the brakes and throttle could be just too sensitive and difficult. To fix it you might find it works to raise the static height of the front via fork height or spring preload, or you could raise the dynamic height via the clickers, and it seems to get the same result, but then later you find there is a compromise at some other part of the track or a different track on a different day.  So you go back and correct the bike from to oversteer by an alt method, and then find that overall you have more versatile settings.  You need to try feel the front/rear balance of the bike and also the traction of each tire.   Don't get depressed about it, it's all part of the fun. Some people like to set and forget and adapt to the bike's problems, or just buy different bikes until they get lucky, that's fine too. I personally go for the easiest path, and I find that's a mix of settings and technique. Most bikes can be adjusted to behave just about anyway you want.

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