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SHOWA 47 HS ISSUE

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I just returned from a long ride today about 100 km (70 miles) and wanna report the main issue on these showa mounted on a beta 300 2t.

Love them on technical low speed route sections with stones roots etc but still have some harsh on high speed rocks...that's the setting and would like to understand from where to start experimenting: mid or base and also how stiffening one how effects the other.

 

Base

28x10

 

30x10 (5)

 

28x10

26x10

24x10

22x10

20x10

18x10

16x10

14x10

12x10

16x30 (4)

 

Mid

20x10

 

17x10

 

14x10

 

12x10

 

WASHER

10X10 (2)

11X10 (2)

 

FLOAT 0.35

 

CIAO

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is too soft max and your fork work lower in stroke , you dont have damping for absorb big hit!!

also preload on main spring , little preload give you that problem.

if you ride soft spring , little preload and soft valving your fork are so harsh on high speed hit 

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I'm no expert when it comes to suspension but have revalved my Showa's for Tech Enduro, still a work in progress but never seen the need to run a base and mid valve stack as soft as yours.

Did you do the revalve yourself or did a shop do it for you?

Are you sure none of the 30.1 LS comp shims are stuck together, you count 5 x 30.1 where most Showa woods stacks I have seen are between 8 and 12?

I have tried bleed (28.1) on top of the LS Comp 30.1's before but did not like the way the forks felt, to mushy.

Your mid valve stack is wacky looking too with the single 20.1, tapered stacks down from the 17.1 do work to soften things up but you seem to be missing quit a few shim here.

Would explain the high speed harshness as you basically have very little mid valve damping, add to that the soft LS Comp stack and your basically blowing through stroke the minute your going faster than walking pace.

The 0.35 float can work if you had slightly more damping in your LS comp but the Showa mid valve does not work well with to much float.

With your float spec of 0.35 and current shims I get to a mid valve post length of 1.75mm, is that right?

Personally prefer a smaller float of 0.15 to 0.25 where the mid valve comes on sooner wth a more progressive transition between the Base and Mid valving.

You could add 2x 20.1's to your mid valve and still end up with a float of 0.15, should stiffen things up a bit and keep the front up in the stroke while maintain some plushness. Can then look at adding some LS Comp shims back, start with 10x 30.1's. Remove the 28.1 bleed ontop of the LS Comp as well and test from there.

You did not mention it, but how much do you weight and what weight are your fork springs?

Like I said I'm no expert so it would be interesting to see what other responses you get.

Edited by Van Wick

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mates...please remember I'm still learning and also consider that reading all the discussion in English is an hard job for me !!! Anyway I know my forks are very soft but it is a sort of starting point to feel the changements better. Van Wick appreciate  a lot your reply as it's very useful..will update you

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Don't stress to much, understanding the language if you don't speak English that well can be difficult. I found lots of good help and good advise from members here on TT which got me interested in learning to revalve my own suspension.

It takes a lot of time and reading to start to figure it all out and only once you start adjusting as you have done and testing does it all start to make sense.

I'm replying from my mobile phone and its late 12am on my side, will continue the conversation tomorrow from my PC, will be easier to reply then.

If you have not already read the DIY 450R Suspension Revalve sticky its a great place to start and get good information on Showa forks and shock and what each part of the fork and shock shim stack does.

Here is a link to one of the pages on the DIY 450R Suspension Revalve sticky with a member that has a KTM 2 stroke with Showa forks - 2nd last post is start of the convo and has similar problems like you have. http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/327668-DIY%2004%20450%20Suspension%20Re-Valve!

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max i gave you a starting point 1 month ago , your stack is not a starting point now , you revalved your fork many times!! 

i think you must explain more to other guy here , what you have test , sure more then 10 stack .

or  we can t help you.

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Contemax if you have tried so many stacks already and are now at such a soft setting then the feeling you are looking for is being effected by other components on the bike.

I have read many posts of Cardinale199 and he has some good ideas on revalving Showa forks for Enduro use, if his base setting was not close than there must be problems elsewhere.

Is it possible that these Showa forks you are trying to adapt for your 300 2T are not damaged causing problem preventing a good feeling on the valving you are trying to achieve?

Is the closed chamber damping assembly functioning properly?

Nothing bent or worn out on the forks?

Is the front and rear balanced, rear setup is important for getting the front to work properly. Is your bike a KTM with PDS?

My advise of you are not find the feeling you want from the forks is to start with standard stacks or a baseline stack and start the revalving testing from the beginning.

Edited by Van Wick

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I think you have to read better what I wrote....absolutely happy in the hard technical section...it means good damping no deflections and a balanced bike. My issue is harshness on the hs obstacles and what I understood it's that I probably have too much float in the midvalve. There is no bleeedstack in this showa 2003 model. The fork functioning is perfect, no bent or worn out. The Cardinale's starting point was too stiff for this fork but he gave me a lot of good inputs. Don't forget it is mounted on a two stroke bike. I can also will add a couple of faceshims to the main valve. Cardinale tell me why this is not a starting point. I'm thinking that starting from this configuration and working for example on the mid first I can feel exactly how the fork reacts as changing one parameter at a time is easier to understand. It is true that I revalved 5 times but my approach was wrong just removing a faceshim a time from the bv then from the mv. I'm also thinking to my tuning approach at the moment: I'm starting from a cross fork mounted on a 450 so the normal way to operate for enduro use is going softer removing shims but the opposite also can be right...starting from soft and going stiffer (there's also more fun :-) ). I also start read the Dogger's post and it's nice.

cheers

max

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Well, you already got lots of input mate.

 

There are different schools of thought on woods valving.

Personally, I like the bleedshim on the basevalve for technical woods riding.

However, the rest of your basevalve is quite soft too.

 

Your Midvalve is way to soft. Float can be okay but the stack is to soft.

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I like the bleedshim too...I have got a lot of good feelings on the bike using it. Regarding the float my big issue is to find a od6  8x0,25 to add to the collar to have more float using an hard stack...

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Even I know at least 5 tuners in Italy. Somebody will have some id6 od8 shims in stock I guess ;)

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ahaha u right vietze even if they will never ship just one shim...u have to buy at least 25 of them...

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Well, doing your own suspension involves time and money and you will go bald in the end haha

 

I dont think that the smaller tuner wont sell you a few shims which they have in stock.

But anyway, you can order shims also from a big German suspension distributer:

http://www.s-tech-racing.de/S-TECH-Racing/Shims:::38_8.html

S-tech sells shims in 10 pcs per unit.

Edited by Vietze
  • Like 1

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