xl 200

[andrey nikolov]

Hi!...brand new here!

 

My name is Andrey from Bulgaria...a-a-a-and short story. I don't ride bikes from 2005....bad incident with sport bike...I fell with almost 260km/h (thanx God without any serious injuries) and soon I sell all of my bikes and quit. But years make wonders…so after off-road vehicles, drift cars and other hobbys..again motorcycles…this time old and small.  So ‘the voice’ tell me – you need to build café – racer…So I bought an old BMW R45 and did a good bike.

 

 

Than a friend of mine sell me an old CB250G5 ’75 model…’restore’ project, but then I realized that is not for me.

 

So bought Honda XL 200. I have seen broken bikes with no maintenance …but me honda is top-trash.

 

Sooo I need little help.

What is stock bore of this bikes..Gooogle said  from 65 or 65,5mm

What is stock stroke?

 

 

I will have a lot other questions...sooon!

 

P.S. Sorry for my bad english...my mother said me...learn ,my boy...but I ride bikes ?

[GEOF]

Keep going on the english. You gotta start somewhere. The Xr 200 bore size is 65.00mm and I am sure the Xl would be the same. What are you building and what year is it?

[andrey nikolov]

My XL200 is some kind of italian model or italian build model....on tank is written Paris-Dakar model. All stamps on engine parts are from '83...so probably 1983. There is no kick starter, only electrical....and the carb is very strange Dell'Orto PHBL 24 with acceleration pump.

 

The idea is to make very light bike, and the vision is 'flat tracker'

 

 

 

The plan

 

-convert rear pro link suspension to double shock ..allready bought 2 vintage CZ cross shocks with expander tanks...looks very cool

- reinforced sub frame to carry new load from the double shoks

-to find some cool small tank

-18 inch frond wheel - already bought complete XL125 rear rim (the same with mine, but in better condition), machine a new bigger spoke plate for a front hub and to use da same spokes and 18inch rim

-find some vintage oval or square number plate

 

...and the engine...aaa the engine .... this time I will not paint the engine block (very nasty job and expensive paints). Often when people see me with my CB250G5 they ask me 'if this a good chinese replika of Honda'...so the engine must be clear, but with all 'scars' of usage.

 

Da Problem is that the previous owner, remove for some unknown reason, centrifugal oil separator and ride the bike...unknown milage. After this very clever move, the engine works without or with minor lubrication. So allmost everything in engine is damaged. Till now I was able to solve problem with crank...I buy some chinese crank from unknow model but fit perfectly, accept fly wheel and coils...which are chinese too...with some machin work they fit. The crank is a littel bit longer...I meassured it around 63mm and I find piston (china again) 65mm with lower deck hight than fit...with one word...stroker...I calculate it around 210cc. The big question is how to find a cylinder sleеve...mine is original is 100% worn.

 

p.s. I hope you have big imagination to understand my english. ?

[GEOF]

I understand what you are saying but I don't think you know what you are talking about. Sorry. That is a hell of a lot of work and I think your definition of a stroker crank is incorrect. 

All I can say is good luck and I will not be able to offer much help here. 

 

All the best.

[andrey nikolov]

Ok

 

so is it possible..cylinder from XL125 to be overbored to 65 mm?? Is there enough material from da sleeve??

[andrey nikolov]

and one more...stock or maximum clearance between piston and cylinder??

[SnS]

There were different bores... not all 200's were the same. for the XR's and 3 wheelers anyways.

at the bottom of the cylinder it will be marked. I had 3 jugs here and all 3 were different, 194cc(early 80's trike) or 196cc('02 XR) and I found an '83 XR for parts that had 197 or 198cc although I don't believe it was it's original cylinder on that one.

[SnS]

and one more...stock or maximum clearance between piston and cylinder??

.0035" to .005" is what I was told from my local dealer.

[andrey nikolov]

There were different bores... not all 200's were the same. for the XR's and 3 wheelers anyways.

at the bottom of the cylinder it will be marked. I had 3 jugs here and all 3 were different, 194cc(early 80's trike) or 196cc('02 XR) and I found an '83 XR for parts that had 197 or 198cc although I don't believe it was it's original cylinder on that one.

on mine is stamped 195cc. Tomorrow I'll make more serious measurements and see if my idea with china parts will work.

[andrey nikolov]

so...today's measurements

 

china crank stroke 62,2mm

china piston 65,5 mm diameter and 16mm deck hight

 

piston in top dead center is perfectly flat with cylinder

 

1mm gasket - 3,4cc (my old gasket is 1mm)

chamber - 16,5cc (measure with oil and glass)

 

or together almost 20cc

 

Volume 209,5cc

 

comp ratio 10,5:1

 

...and somehow problem with piston is solved....but the bigger problem with china crank is diameter of shaft 20mm on flywheel side...and original is 22mm...sucks. I checked numerous flywheels by local dealer of china parts...but all of them are 22mm or for engine under 150cc are 19mm. Unfortunately that means custom flywheel...hello dear lathe and milling machine.   

[SnS]

20mm crank on flywheel side is what the '83 XR200 that I picked up for parts had.

[andrey nikolov]

some pictures ....if you have...please!!! ?

[SnS]

Sorry, I don't have any pics.

 

There's some good info on another thread... here

 

Good job on comparing parts.

 

To my knowledge all of the XR/ATC heads flow basically the same with some variations that seem to be foundry related, so for a trail bike any of the XR/XL/ATC/185/200 heads should be OK (the TLR has smaller valves).  All 79-02 XR185/200 cams are the same, all of the other model cams are milder. To be on the safe side use XR valve springs with the XR cam (or do some part number searches on valve springs).

 

The bolt is a 6x116mm and used on all of the common large 2 valve motors including the 83 XR200R, so the head you have must be from something different. I have several ATC heads and they all have the bolt hole.

 

The nominal displacement of the engines is cast into the rear of the cylinder, I use that to ID cylinders but the bore size differences among the XR/ATC/XL/TLR/185/200 are just that, the liners have the same OD so you can rebore to suit your needs, but some machine shops charge more if they need to bore out more than one oversize.  Stock bore for all of the XR200s is 65.5mm, ATC200s are 65mm and XR185s are 63mm.  I've bored a 63mm XR185 cylinder to 66mm for use on a XR200R. The clue is they all use the same base gasket. The XRs use a 10:1 piston. Once upon a time Honda use to list oversize pistons in increments smaller than 0.5mm but it seems cheaper and easier to use 3rd party forged pistons in 0.5mm increments, rather than Honda cast pistons. Although for trail riding I doubt if it makes any difference in engine life.

 

The only difference in crank journals that are obvious between early/late XL/XRs should be the timing chain sprocket, in 90 the crank sprocket ID changed to 22mm ID from 20mm. Most of the ATC cranks have a long right shaft for an auto clutch so they won't work. The XL/XR bearing journals should be the same except for a change in fit for the right side that occurred in 94, so right crank/bearing/case need to be compatible.

 

There were also some differences in the left end taper on other 2 valve motors to suit different rotors, but the XR185/200 left cranks seem to be the same.  I've mixed early/late rotors and cranks, rotor bolt needs to match the rotor. The 86+ rotor is 12 oz heavier than the early rotors, but you also need the stator/cover and electrics.

 

To the OP; IMO the 86+ Service manual is better because my 81-83 XR200R manual has some bad torque values for the engine, my 86-99 Honda manual is correct!    Any 79-84 XR185/200 or 81-83 XR200R motor will just bolt into your chassis, just use your electrics and carb. Even a XL motor will fit but it will have less compression, only five speeds, and a milder cam, but you can run street lights.

[andrey nikolov]

thanks a lot Mr.Sns...so wit simple words I need pre '83 rotor/flywheel.....but can you do some measurements for me...please:

 

inner diameter of rotor...for the coils

depth too??

[YZF Shifter]

I'm gunna pop in here .. Hi Andrey , just followed your questions , you are on the right track .

Here in New Zealand we have a lot of imported chinese bikes to which there are a lot of variants but the majority of the motors are copied from the Honda CG CB XL CT versions , I too have a chinese crank sitting in a Honda casing (longer stroke) it is still in the build process . I have got a no-flywheel ignition system (similar to the late model 4-strokes) that will be machined to fit the crank taper .Will not be using the ignition advance pick up on the cam either , No fly wheel giving me a more responsive motor .

 

Shane

[andrey nikolov]

Hi!

 

Thanks for the replay Mr Shane.

 

Can you give me a link to those systems....and if there are no flywheel, what produce electricity for the accumulator and ignition?

[YZF Shifter]

Here it is mate .. the tiny little rotor in the centre is about 50mm across and weighs next to nothing , you will not be able to run lights ....Shane

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/motorbikes/parts-for-sale/performance/auction-653118315.htm

[andrey nikolov]

Very cool device!

 

but my bike have not a kick starter, only electrical ... so I will need my coils and batery

[YZF Shifter]

Ok .. that won't suit you then , better keep hunting for something that fits your crank  ?

[SnS]

thanks a lot Mr.Sns...so wit simple words I need pre '83 rotor/flywheel.....but can you do some measurements for me...please:

 

inner diameter of rotor...for the coils

depth too??

Sorry but I didn't keep any of the parts from the '83

I gave them to the guy that helped me rebuild my motor.