450 SX/XC-W vs. 500XC-W

Curious as to what differences there are between the motors of these bikes.  Obviously mapping/timing and transmission changes between the SX and the XC-W, but is there anything else?

 

What I'm really looking for is the most HP.  

 

Please don't tell me that it doesn't matter because I can't use all the power of any of these bikes.  My question is for snowbiking purposes, the power will get used!

 

Which bike is the HP king?

Obviously the 500.

The 500 will make more HP sooner vs a 450 making more HP at a much higher RPM...

I have a 500 and recently took a good spin on a '14 450xcf, it felt slow in comparison but revved quite a bit higher and in a sense almost easier to ride. The 500s, though smooth make a lot of torque right off idle and without proper throttle control can be a handful....

Most of the guys I know with Snowbikes will prefer a larger engine such as the 500 and then port it for a broader power band. Ideally bikes like the Husaberg 570 are also sought after and can be found for much less then a KTM....

Obviously the 500.

 

Do you have any actual information to back this up?

 

The 500 will make more HP sooner vs a 450 making more HP at a much higher RPM...

I have a 500 and recently took a good spin on a '14 450xcf, it felt slow in comparison but revved quite a bit higher and in a sense almost easier to ride. The 500s, though smooth make a lot of torque right off idle and without proper throttle control can be a handful....

Most of the guys I know with Snowbikes will prefer a larger engine such as the 500 and then port it for a broader power band. Ideally bikes like the Husaberg 570 are also sought after and can be found for much less then a KTM....

 

Thanks Monk, do you happen to know what the HP #'s are for each bike?  I know motocross action shows right at 60HP for the 450SX with just a slip on.  Is the 500 more than that?

 

The big bore bikes seem popular with the older or overweight snowbike crowd.  I can't seem to grasp what the draw to these bikes is.  The ones that I've been around aren't on the same level as a 450mx bike.  The worst performing snowbike I've seen was a KTM 525.  That bike would power out in second, where a 450 would go by in third with the ski in the air.

 

I rode with a KTM 500 last year... I wasn't impressed with it either.  It got around okay, but wasn't exactly impressive.

 

I guess it would just be nice to see what the HP curve is for both bikes.  Most people seem to think the 500 is faster, but no-one has any actual information to back that up.

Do you have any actual information to back this up?

Thanks Monk, do you happen to know what the HP #'s are for each bike? I know motocross action shows right at 60HP for the 450SX with just a slip on. Is the 500 more than that?

The big bore bikes seem popular with the older or overweight snowbike crowd. I can't seem to grasp what the draw to these bikes is. The ones that I've been around aren't on the same level as a 450mx bike. The worst performing snowbike I've seen was a KTM 525. That bike would power out in second, where a 450 would go by in third with the ski in the air.

I rode with a KTM 500 last year... I wasn't impressed with it either. It got around okay, but wasn't exactly impressive.

I guess it would just be nice to see what the HP curve is for both bikes. Most people seem to think the 500 is faster, but no-one has any actual information to back that up.

I have no idea on HP numbers.... Its all about revs, 500s don't rev well. But like I said, a ported and piped one does extremely well up here....

I was in the same boat as you for the last couple months, I'm using mine for a snowbike mainly with a little trail/ moto playing. After the research I did, I ended up getting a 13 XC-F 450. It's the same as the SX with the exception of an o-ring chain, bigger tank, bigger stator, 18" wheel, kickstand and suspension valving, which are few good things for the snow as well as the dirt! It still shares the same motor/ transmission and spring rate as the sx, which is also good for the snow. The guys I talked to, which was a LOT was that the race motor and close ratio tranny are the best combo on snow. The 500 works good but its just different, it needs stiffer springs and valving, exhaust, mapping/ magic mod, and head work to run with the stock sx on snow. The 500 makes 47hp at the wheel stock and close to the 450 modded, 450 is 58 at the wheel stock. If you're thinking of a turbo, the 500 is better right now, the lower compression motor is better for turbo application. The wide ratio tranny doesn't work quite as well... unless you turbo it. With the close ratio you're able to keep the revs up better while shifting on the snow. You can pick up a 13 XC-f for about $7500 right now, the 500 doesn't have any rebates, plus you're going to have a couple grand into it to make it run! This is just my opinion of course! Getting a bike is just the beginning of building a bike for snow, if you have any questions, feel free to ask! Heres the bike and the skid, white plastic is going on the bike as well, should be fun!

20131020_105611 (1280x960).jpg20131003_180828 (1280x960).jpg

I was in the same boat as you for the last couple months, I'm using mine for a snowbike mainly with a little trail/ moto playing. After the research I did, I ended up getting a 13 XC-F 450. It's the same as the SX with the exception of an o-ring chain, bigger tank, bigger stator, 18" wheel, kickstand and suspension valving, which are few good things for the snow as well as the dirt! It still shares the same motor/ transmission and spring rate as the sx, which is also good for the snow. The guys I talked to, which was a LOT was that the race motor and close ratio tranny are the best combo on snow. The 500 works good but its just different, it needs stiffer springs and valving, exhaust, mapping/ magic mod, and head work to run with the stock sx on snow. The 500 makes 47hp at the wheel stock and close to the 450 modded, 450 is 58 at the wheel stock. If you're thinking of a turbo, the 500 is better right now, the lower compression motor is better for turbo application. The wide ratio tranny doesn't work quite as well... unless you turbo it. With the close ratio you're able to keep the revs up better while shifting on the snow. You can pick up a 13 XC-f for about $7500 right now, the 500 doesn't have any rebates, plus you're going to have a couple grand into it to make it run! This is just my opinion of course! Getting a bike is just the beginning of building a bike for snow, if you have any questions, feel free to ask! Heres the bike and the skid, white plastic is going on the bike as well, should be fun!

20131020_105611 (1280x960).jpg 20131003_180828 (1280x960).jpg

I would like to see a dyno of a 500 producing only 47hp.....seeing as a KTM 250SX produces 49hp.....

I think your full of poop pooh

Here's a link to a chart for a 500 XC-Whttp://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=682150&page=84 , looks like its a little higher than 47, the charts I saw on the EXC were 47hp. The 500 makes close to peak HP for about 1000 rpm and the 450sx holds close to 55hp for 3,000 rpm... LOTS of overrev!!!

Edited by mxracer992

I was in the same boat as you for the last couple months, I'm using mine for a snowbike mainly with a little trail/ moto playing. After the research I did, I ended up getting a 13 XC-F 450. It's the same as the SX with the exception of an o-ring chain, bigger tank, bigger stator, 18" wheel, kickstand and suspension valving, which are few good things for the snow as well as the dirt! It still shares the same motor/ transmission and spring rate as the sx, which is also good for the snow. The guys I talked to, which was a LOT was that the race motor and close ratio tranny are the best combo on snow. The 500 works good but its just different, it needs stiffer springs and valving, exhaust, mapping/ magic mod, and head work to run with the stock sx on snow. The 500 makes 47hp at the wheel stock and close to the 450 modded, 450 is 58 at the wheel stock. If you're thinking of a turbo, the 500 is better right now, the lower compression motor is better for turbo application. The wide ratio tranny doesn't work quite as well... unless you turbo it. With the close ratio you're able to keep the revs up better while shifting on the snow. You can pick up a 13 XC-f for about $7500 right now, the 500 doesn't have any rebates, plus you're going to have a couple grand into it to make it run! This is just my opinion of course! Getting a bike is just the beginning of building a bike for snow, if you have any questions, feel free to ask! Heres the bike and the skid, white plastic is going on the bike as well, should be fun!

attachicon.gif20131020_105611 (1280x960).jpgattachicon.gif20131003_180828 (1280x960).jpg

 

Good info.  This is pretty mush what I was thinking as well.  

 

To be clear, I'm not looking to buy one of these.  I'm more or less trying to educate myself on the differences because I have a lot of customers looking at these bikes.  Most seem to opt for the 500, but in my mind the 450 seems like the more logical choice.

 

The 47-49HP # for the 500 has to be at the wheel, where I'm guessing MXA's 58# for the 450 is at the crank?  I would not be surprised if the 500 was slightly less than the 450, but 10HP is way out of line.

 

Love the white kit!

A 14 250sxf has 41rwhp and 350 50rwhp which is just shy of the 450sxf which makes a couple more , I would expect more than 50 from a 500 , the 250 2 stroke also has 50rwhp

The 2013 450 SXf is turning 58hp at the wheel, there is lots of info and dyno charts out there to back that up, KTM is claiming 63hp. For 2014 it lost 1hp to give it a better bottom end. HP numbers are never the whole story though, the KX is 3hp less but is definitely quicker accelerating! 63hp is about the same as a 500 2 stroke, but a 500 2 stroke will leave a 450.

450sxf over the 500 for sure (if the best snowbike is what you are after).  Quicker revs, better power delivery for the snowbike, overrev to the moon, more raw HP.  I just moved over from a KX450 which is probably the 2nd best snowbike next to the SXF.

450sxf over the 500 for sure (if the best snowbike is what you are after).  Quicker revs, better power delivery for the snowbike, overrev to the moon, more raw HP.  I just moved over from a KX450 which is probably the 2nd best snowbike next to the SXF.

 

Thanks!  It appears that most on here seem to agree that the 450 is the best for the application.  

 

Except for motonack, who apparently has no information to back up is "obviously the 500" statement.  I was hoping he'd come back with some facts!

In the same dilemma myself. I actually have a thread on this topic over in the "which bike should I buy" forum. I'm leaning towards the XCF but my buddy (who just bought a 500) thinks I'm either going to hate it in summer or not have enough skill to use it (he could be right). He seems to think the put put characteristics of the 500 will suit me better. Plus, it will make a better dual sport. I do have a 300 that I use for tight woods riding though. But the XCF's tall first and short 5th could be problematic for some trails.

Edited by thejean

I rode the six day 450 and 500 and own the 450sxf fe... The 450 six day felt like a tug boat, heavy and slow and always needed to be revved high.

The 500six day felt better but didnt have the punch of the sxf. But after 100km i was runnin on fumes while they still have 1/3tamk left to go...

All were efi and all new with low hrs...

U want power or range???

Range would be the 500

Power the sxf

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