Ethanol Additives

[MotoAce51]

Not sure what section this should go. Does anyone use the ethanol additives in their bikes? I have seen them more and more lately advertised, at motorsports stores, and just everywhere. I think it's geared more towards phase separation, but not sure. I had a sample from a boat show my dad went to, and he uses it in his skis, but I wasn't sure if it was worth using. Thoughts?

[RickP]

I just use ethanol free gas. Check to see if there is a station near you. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY

[WALKINGWOUNDED]

I just use ethanol free gas. Check to see if there is a station near you. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY

 

Which brings me to this:

 

In an effort to save the spotted owls and the silver minnows, the E.P.A. did away lead in gasoline in the 80's.  If I understand correctly, the oil companies in an effort to maintain the octane ratings, started adding ethynol to the gas.  If this is correct, then how are they getting the octane ratings with ethynol free gas?

 

I'm sure I'm missing something here, and need a better understanding.

[MotoAce51]

I have a Sunoco 110 station near me. That's a leaded gas.

[AddictedToBling]

Bit of useless Information and American History from an Aussie   . 

 

When Henry Ford designed the Model T it was built and designed to run on pure ethanol. Enter the American prohibition on booze. Henry had to find another fuel source. Hence why we now use fossil fuels and the Planet is such a mess    .

 

Same with Hemp V's Synthetic plastic (Dupont)   ? .

 

You environmental vandals    .

 

Our Aussie V-8 Super Cars run on 99% Ethanol ? . The 1% is only to stop people from drinking it?

Edited October 26, 2013 by AddictedToBling

[717 MOTORSPORTS]

who cares about cars here? This is a dirtbike forum

[William1]

I add Sta-Bil. There are many variations but it does keep the fuel in check. I do not hold onto any fuel more than three months.

 

Ethanol was added to US fuel in a effort to move to renewable energy. No one talks about how it takes more fossil fuels to create the ethanol from corn, the rise in food prices,  or all the pollution that effort takes (it has to be trucked in special lined trucks, it is too corrosive for pipline plus the water issue). Add to all of that the subsidies given to farmers to create it. It really is a joke but to the uninformed, it appears to be a great idea.

 

Octane is controlled by the fracking process and additives

[AddictedToBling]

I add Sta-Bil. There are many variations but it does keep the fuel in check. I do not hold onto any fuel more than three months.

 

Ethanol was added to US fuel in a effort to move to renewable energy. No one talks about how it takes more fossil fuels to create the ethanol from corn, the rise in food prices,  or all the pollution that effort takes (it has to be trucked in special lined trucks, it is too corrosive for pipline plus the water issue). Add to all of that the subsidies given to farmers to create it. It really is a joke but to the uninformed, it appears to be a great idea.

 

Octane is controlled by the fracking process and additives

 

 

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But.  If the trucks are running on Ethanol there is no pollution.

[KJ790]

Personally I haven't really found where any of the additives really do anything. Look at the MSDS for them and you will find that they are mostly made up of alcohol. How does adding more alcohol stop issues caused by alcohol in the fuel?

 

I haven't found where using 10% ethanol fuel is a problem as long as you don't let it sit. On the same note, I have found that you cannot let the non-ethanol fuel sold around here sit either. I have had just as many problems with the non-ethanol fuel that has sat for more than 3 weeks as I have with ethanol fuel. I think most of the carb gumming issues that have come up in the last couple years are due to the overall poor quality of gas in general, not ethanol itself.

 

The the last 15 years we have only been able to buy 10% ethanol gas around here. It wasn't until the last 5 years or so that it started gumming up carbs and what not. About a year ago a local station started selling non-ethanol fuel again, and it still has all the issues that the ethanol fuels have been causing me.

[scottiesbe]

shell hi test is ethanol free in Ontario, not sure if it is in new york

[William1]

Yeah, I know what you're saying. But.  If the trucks are running on Ethanol there is no pollution.

The pollution is from coverting corn to ethanol (takes more energy to do than it yields!!!) and the diesel powering the trucks to transport it. I do not know of a single big rig that runs 'gasoline'.

If you decide to do some research, be sure to include subsidy values, that is an 'invisible' source of funding.

[717 MOTORSPORTS]

Personally I haven't really found where any of the additives really do anything. Look at the MSDS for them and you will find that they are mostly made up of alcohol. How does adding more alcohol stop issues caused by alcohol in the fuel?

 

I haven't found where using 10% ethanol fuel is a problem as long as you don't let it sit. On the same note, I have found that you cannot let the non-ethanol fuel sold around here sit either. I have had just as many problems with the non-ethanol fuel that has sat for more than 3 weeks as I have with ethanol fuel. I think most of the carb gumming issues that have come up in the last couple years are due to the overall poor quality of gas in general, not ethanol itself.

 

The the last 15 years we have only been able to buy 10% ethanol gas around here. It wasn't until the last 5 years or so that it started gumming up carbs and what not. About a year ago a local station started selling non-ethanol fuel again, and it still has all the issues that the ethanol fuels have been causing me.

X2!!! I have not found ANY product to stabilize fuel, and I have tried a few, including Stabil, Stabil marine formula, and the almighty Seafoam. Every Spring I put some brand of stabilizer in the tank of my sleds, according to the directions. I start them,and run them so the stabilized fuel gets into the carbs. Every late summer,I can fire up the sleds, and leave them run. Come late fall/early winter, my 500 will eventually fire up, but my 700 triple...no way, and never has! Always have to completely drain all fuel, and replace with new. Then he fires like the champ he is. This year, I said screw it, and didn't bother wasting a nickel on any stabizer

[CostaRicaThumper]

Last weekend I read a 50 page thread on another motorcycle forum where 1 person stubbornly defended his position that ethanol was the beat-all solution for over-pollution and dependency on foreign oil, even if it remained at current inefficient production levels ? .  I know thats not what the OP asked, but in the other thread, between all of the political back and forth (complete with silly ad homonym attacks like with any US political debate) there where some bits of verifiable technical data which I found interesting and is relevant here.  Here is what I found the upshot to be:

 

1. Ethanol has less energy per gallon than gasoline.  Mixing ethanol with gasoline will limit your range.  Will you notice the difference running a 5% blend? Maybe not if you aren't keeping track.  But at an E10 mix you can start to see the difference.  Plus at current prices for pre-blended fuels, you will pay more for less range.

 

2. Ethanol is more stable than gasoline. This is why a lot of car tuner guys run E85 or even E99/E100.  They can run a much higher compression ratio which allows them to get much better performance numbers.  They also use ECU maps for these high blends to get the most out of them.  Efficiency goes right down though since they are pumping fuel with less potential energy much faster (which racers obviously don't care about that too much ? ).

 

3.  Newer cars and bikes may be able to cope with light blends of ethanol BUT manufacturers maintain the right to not honor the warranty if you fuel with unapproved/untested fuels.  DO THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.  Older cars and bike tend to have carburetor problem (and maybe other problems?).

 

4. Ethanol absorbs water and gasoline causes water to evaporate.  Some water (if present) in your tank will be absorbed into your fuel and cause sluggishness with a light blend.  This is even more true of higher ethanol blends.  I'm not sure if this could cause any long-term damage to your engine/fuel system though.  Consult someone more knowledgeable about that.

 

5. At present extraction methods, ethanol is not more environmentally friendly and not more economically beneficial to use.  If ethanol can be produced more efficiently, with a lower "ecological footprint" and with a lower price for the consumer (that properly reflects how much energy is being purchased) ethanol may become a much more viable alternative to (or blending ingredient of) gasoline.  Until then, you are paying more for slightly more stable fuel and a warm green fuzzy inside. 

 

Looking back at what I wrote i realize I may have gone slightly off topic talking about gasoline/ethanol blends instead of an additive to blend yourself, so i will end with this:

 

If your engine can benefit from an ethanol blend or additive because its running a high enough compression ratio, or because your ECU is mapped for ethanol blends, you can certainly see an improvement in engine performance.  To use it for any other reason is a mistake in my humble opinion.  But ultimately its your decision and your money.  

[AddictedToBling]

The pollution is from coverting corn to ethanol (takes more energy to do than it yields!!!) and the diesel powering the trucks to transport it. I do not know of a single big rig that runs 'gasoline'.

If you decide to do some research, be sure to include subsidy values, that is an 'invisible' source of funding.

 

 

Bio diesel ? . 

 

Most of our Ethanol comes from Sugar Kane pulp. I'm not sure if the process is the same as corn but I do know it takes a huge amount of either to make the fuel viable.

Edited October 26, 2013 by AddictedToBling

[1987CR250R]

delete

Edited October 26, 2013 by 1987CR250R

[AddictedToBling]

Fuel absorbs water as well. Never been told not to leave your fuel container sitting on the ground ?

 

Most of the cars and BIKES ( ? ) in Brazil run on ethanol. They are the World leaders in Ethanol use and also recycling. Maybe the rest of the world needs to take a leaf out of their book

[chadk66]

ethanol is garbage.  and it's breaking our country.  it deteriorates so bad that after thirty days our bikes won't even start without draining and pouring in new gas.  E15 was supposed to be mandated very soon.  It has now been shelved because the refineries said they won't produce it yet at any substantial volume.  I can't tell you how many carburators on bikes and boats I had to go through this summer to clean the crap out.  The ethanol subsidies have to stop. 

[AddictedToBling]

Magnets ?

[Pittbull]

Ethanol eats up hoses and leaves a slug in the bottom of carbs and anything else that it comes in contact with if left for a period of time. I never use gas that crap in it, if I can help it. Anything that I plan to leave for a period of time, say over the winter, like lawn mowers, leaf blowers, street bikes etc. I make damn sure they sit with premium gas with ZERO ethanol or use the pure European gas alternative from ASPEN. Here in Canada the cheaper the gas, the more damn ethanol crap is in it. Most premium grades don't have any. Damn Oil companies are just a bunch of crooks and will tell you anything to hide what they are really doing. IMO these additives are just a way for them to thin out fuels with cheep additives so that the gas they gouge us on goes further for them. Like CostaRicaThumper mentioned above, these heavily chemicalled (spelling?) ethanol fuels are no where near as efficient as fuels of old or the refined - pure race gas; even the European fuels.

Edited October 27, 2013 by Pittbull

[Fox Mulder]

Not to be a tree hugging ethanol loving liberal commi, but I have never had any issues with leaving gas in any engine over the winter. I park the mowers in November as is and fire'em up in March, and there fine.

A few times,5-6 years ago, I even left gas in the bike for 5 months. I did nothing but start the bike and ride. Never noticed any performance loss or carb problems.

I once started a car with at the very least 3 year old gas, didn't drive it but it started.

PS to clarify, I'm NOT a tree hugging ethanol loving liberal commi!