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Ethanol Additives

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Low performance 4 strokes will tolerate the garbage. I had a quad here the other day which would fire up, and run fine, after I cleaned the carb. Would even drive ok...until I hit some rough stuff. Shortly after it would cough, choke and die. Did it a few times. I eventually figured maybe there was sediment in the bottom of the tank, which was being stirred up, and sent through the carb, so I installed a clear fuel filter. As the filter was filling, I thought the fuel looked pretty cloudy. I pulled the filter, and filled a clear jar with fuel. In less than a minute I had a clearly visible line at about 2/3 full on the jar....that's 2/3 water!!! The owner of the quad had there was no way it had water in it, as the fuel was fresh, and the quad hasn't sat long. I showed him the jar of his fuel, and gave him back a very good running Cat.

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I have to agree that the ethanol thing is blown way out of proportion. If your ethanol fuel has a significant amount of water in it, then you would have an issue with the water in normal gas as well. Ethanol does not generate water, so a significant amount of water got into the fuel, and that is not good regardless of the type of fuel you are using.

 

Another myth I see a lot of is that premium gas has less ethanol than regular 87. Often times higher octane pump gas will have more ethanol than the lower octane fuels because ethanol is the cheapest way to raise the octane rating in the fuel. The sticker on the pump says "may contain up to 10% ethanol", and many times the "premium" fuel will have 10% while the lower grades will have 7-8%. You can't just assume that one grade has less than another, you won't know until you actually test the fuel. Just because they call a fuel "premium" does not mean it is any better quality, it is just less prone to detonating.

 

Like I said earlier, I'm not convinced that ethanol itself causes all of the carb gumming. I think it is the other crap they are putting in the fuel now, as the non-ethanol fuel sold around here did the same thing to me when it sat in a carb for 4 weeks. It seems like the quality of pure gasoline itself has gone down the crapper in recent years, ethanol or not.

Edited by KJ790
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I have to agree that the ethanol thing is blown way out of proportion. If your ethanol fuel has a significant amount of water in it, then you would have an issue with the water in normal gas as well. Ethanol does not generate water, so a significant amount of water got into the fuel, and that is not good regardless of the type of fuel you are using.

 

Another myth I see a lot of is that premium gas has less ethanol than regular 87. Often times higher octane pump gas will have more ethanol than the lower octane fuels because ethanol is the cheapest way to raise the octane rating in the fuel. The sticker on the pump says "may contain up to 10% ethanol", and many times the "premium" fuel will have 10% while the lower grades will have 7-8%. You can't just assume that one grade has less than another, you won't know until you actually test the fuel. Just because they call a fuel "premium" does not mean it is any better quality, it is just less prone to detonating.

 

Like I said earlier, I'm not convinced that ethanol itself causes all of the carb gumming. I think it is the other crap they are putting in the fuel now, as the non-ethanol fuel sold around here did the same thing to me when it sat in a carb for 4 weeks. It seems like the quality of pure gasoline itself has gone down the crapper in recent years, ethanol or not.

YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ethanfugginol sucks water from the atmosphere, as in air! The only way that crap is not going to get water in it, is to completely seal it off so no air gets to it. IMPOSSIBLE! Read up on ethanol on marine, and ultralight sites before defending the shiiiit

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i have had lawnmowers sit   a few weeks and needed the carb bowl cleaned of the gel

 

i use startron or stabil marine  in My pwc's  and my boat ( 3 year fuel starts fine )   but it's easy to tell when the fuel turns because it stinks

 

I also find it turns fast when it gets hot like a mower in the sun or a fuel can left out 

 

Ethanol  is hydroponic but even on a sealed system I still find gel so IDK  I wish they would do away with it

and far marine and Fiberglass tanks  forget about it  LOL

Edited by Zimman

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I know many will not believe this but I rode my 01 CR250 2stk for the first time  since March yesterday on the gas that was in the tank and what was left over in my small can. It was mixed with a tiny amount of Startron and a couple ounces of Seafoam. It started and ran PERFECTLY all day. I did NOT add any new gas. Normal 93oct gas from a local station  at a supermarket. No idea what brand. So far I have had zero problems with this ethanol stuff, but I will keep using the Startron.

Edited by YHGEORGE

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YOU ARE WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ethanfugginol sucks water from the atmosphere, as in air! The only way that crap is not going to get water in it, is to completely seal it off so no air gets to it. IMPOSSIBLE! Read up on ethanol on marine, and ultralight sites before defending the shiiiit

Wow, looks like I struck a nerve here.

 

If you do some research on ethanol, here is the basic chemistry you will find. Ethanol does not just keep sucking water out of the air and fill your tank up with water. Ethanol is soluble in gasoline as well as in water, meaning it can bond freely with either compound. When Ethanol bonds with water it forms a compound that is 96% ethanol and 4% water. This means that if you have a gallon of E10 gasoline (10% ethanol), the most water that can be absorbed by the ethanol is about 0.004 gallons, or 0.51 ounces of water. Any water beyond that has been introduced by another method. This means that if your tank is 2/3 full of water, it has absolutely nothing to do with the ethanol in the fuel.

 

Now for a little history. Cars typically have a volume of gas tank space below their fuel pick-up. This is because condensation overtime can cause water to build up, which will sink to the bottom of the tank if you are using pure gasoline. If enough water built up it would eventually get into the fuel pick-up and the engine would die. To prevent this, a few companies came out with a fuel system treatment that would absorb the water and make it possible to pass through the fuel system and burn through the engine without issue. These products were simply bottles of ethyl alcohol (ethanol). Nobody thought anything of it, most raved about how great these products were and how much better their car ran with it in the tank (mostly a placebo effect). Then came the day that the government started adding ethyl alcohol to the gas at pumps. The general public panicked. They started telling all of these stories about the negative effects that they had heard rumors of. And yet all along, many people continue to pour these "water remover" fuel treatments into their car and think nothing of it, while warning others of the horrors of ethanol.

 

I'm not defending ethanol, I'm not for it at all. If it were up to me we would be able to buy pure gasoline on every street corner. I am simply saying that the general public has a tendency of over reacting and blowing the whole ethanol fear way out of proportion.

Edited by KJ790
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Startron, and Seafoam both contain alcohol

startron does not contain alcohol according to them   as a matter of fact they recommend u check MSDS sheets and avoid alcohol containing additives 

IDK about sea foam it looks like it does  but I don't use it so I don't care  LOL

 

as far as Ethonol and blowing it out of proportion I recon it's proportionate to how it has effected you  LOL

 

is it all exactly the same  composition across the country ?

does it behave the same in every environment ?

 

I have had fuel cans go bad to the point it  wouldn't fire a  peice of lawn equipment and it stank it was a month old

 

I have had fuel bowls gel and I tank rust do to the hydroscopic properties of the fuel

 

some folks have no issues   but why ?

Edited by Zimman

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startron does not contain alcohol according to them   as a matter of fact they recommend u check MSDS sheets and avoid alcohol containing additives 

IDK about sea foam it looks like it does  but I don't use it so I don't care  LOL

 

as far as Ethonol and blowing it out of proportion I recon it's proportionate to how it has effected you  LOL

 

is it all exactly the same  composition across the country ?

does it behave the same in every environment ?

 

I have had fuel cans go bad to the point it  wouldn't fire a  peice of lawn equipment and it stank it was a month old

 

I have had fuel bowls gel and I tank rust do to the hydroscopic properties of the fuel

 

some folks have no issues   but why ?

 

 

Indian servo owners :rolleyes: .

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way back when people were adding alcohol to their fuel to help rid the tank of water, they were adding a little 500ml can to a whole tank of fuel. That certainly didn't give them a tankful of fuel containing 10% alcohol. The 10% they are pushing  now is the problem. Some people (like kj790) will never get it

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way back when people were adding alcohol to their fuel to help rid the tank of water, they were adding a little 500ml can to a whole tank of fuel. That certainly didn't give them a tankful of fuel containing 10% alcohol. The 10% they are pushing  now is the problem. Some people (like kj790) will never get it

You're right, I just won't get it. If you want to believe people that say running E10 in any engine it will immediately destroy the vehicle, or that their friend's uncle's coworker's wife died because she put E10 in her car then go ahead.

 

Don't shoot the messenger, I didn't invent chemistry.

Edited by KJ790
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I will believe that e10 can destroy an engine immediately. I know 3 people it happened to. 1 was an hours old Yz 250. It immediately went back to Yamaha. Yamaha said it was because of the ethanol content in the fuel. The other 2 were sleds. 2 buddies filled up at the same station. A few miles down the trail, one sled seized. The sled was left on the trail side, and they rode 2 up, towards home to go get a truck. That sled seized a few hundred more feet down the trail. Both sleds lose the bottom ends at the same time, using the same fuel....coincidence??? Hmmm., Maybe.....but I doubt it

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I will believe that e10 can destroy an engine immediately. I know 3 people it happened to. 1 was an hours old Yz 250. It immediately went back to Yamaha. Yamaha said it was because of the ethanol content in the fuel. The other 2 were sleds. 2 buddies filled up at the same station. A few miles down the trail, one sled seized. The sled was left on the trail side, and they rode 2 up, towards home to go get a truck. That sled seized a few hundred more feet down the trail. Both sleds lose the bottom ends at the same time, using the same fuel....coincidence??? Hmmm., Maybe.....but I doubt it

 

 

 

 

I raced Rotax 125 for 5 years. I was the only person here that never blew an engine. Actually. I've never blown an engine of any kind. Always used Ethanol fuels though.

 

There's a huge difference in quality going from one servo to the other. I'm extremely fussy as to where I buy my fuel. I go to a BP where I know they've just replaced the tanks. And they don't add water, rig their pumps  etc   :rolleyes: . I can walk across the road to get fuel but I drive 30 minutes to the BP.

 

Leaking tanks are a common problem.

 

I was watching a TV Doco and I know you have the same problem there. Dodgy service station owners. 9 of every 10 here are dodgy IMO. There's not a lot of money in owning a Service station.

 

I see an Indian in a servo or even smell curry. I'm out of there   :thumbsdn: .

 

A thousand apologies if I've offended anyone :devil: .

Edited by AddictedToBling

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Ethanol eats up hoses and leaves a slug in the bottom of carbs and anything else that it comes in contact with if left for a period of time. I never use gas that crap in it, if I can help it. Anything that I plan to leave for a period of time, say over the winter, like lawn mowers, leaf blowers, street bikes etc. I make damn sure they sit with premium gas with ZERO ethanol or use the pure European gas alternative from ASPEN. Here in Canada the cheaper the gas, the more damn ethanol crap is in it. Most premium grades don't have any. Damn Oil companies are just a bunch of crooks and will tell you anything to hide what they are really doing. IMO these additives are just a way for them to thin out fuels with cheep additives so that the gas they gouge us on goes further for them. Like CostaRicaThumper mentioned above, these heavily chemicalled (spelling?) ethanol fuels are no where near as efficient as fuels of old or the refined - pure race gas; even the European fuels.

it's not the oil companies here it's the epa which mandates it.  they wouldn't use it if they weren't forced to

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