Troy lee se3 helmet?

[cemmons32]

Anyone have one of the troy lee se3 helmets? what do you think of it? i have ridden shoei and arai FOREVER and was thinking about trying one of these out but i dont have anywhere to look at one so i was just wondering what everyone thought of these compared to the shoei or arai helmets.

[nickbaldwin86]

I would suggest 6D if you want the best protection and willing to spend the money or the 1ne Industries helmets with MIPS for the money 

 

I don't think the technology is as great for the Troy Lee but I don't know... i did a few quick searches and could find anything as great asp MIPS or 6D

[T4-Fast_Guy]

The SE3 is an awesome helmet! Protection, style and fit The TLD does it all. It utilizes a shcok pad system that works in conjunction with the multi layer eps system to accomplish the soft impact protection of 6D and ONE.

 

The biggest issue with 6D and Mips is that there is no way to test what they claim to do. Nether Snell, DOT or ECE have a way to test for rotational impact. You can show what it does but there is no way to measure the forces applied. I recently had a long discussion with someone from the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) who basically told me that. I do know Bell Helmets is working on a way to test and measure what Mips and 6D do as is Snell. You can't deny what we have all seen and heard about 6D and personally, I think the technology is sound. However I also think there are other helmets out there that do a great job and are proven as well. I'm not one to jump on bandwagons. I like to see results.

[Dragon67]

The SE3 is an awesome helmet! Protection, style and fit The TLD does it all. It utilizes a shcok pad system that works in conjunction with the multi layer eps system to accomplish the soft impact protection of 6D and ONE.

 

The biggest issue with 6D and Mips is that there is no way to test what they claim to do. Nether Snell, DOT or ECE have a way to test for rotational impact. You can show what it does but there is no way to measure the forces applied. I recently had a long discussion with someone from the MIC (Motorcycle Industry Council) who basically told me that. I do know Bell Helmets is working on a way to test and measure what Mips and 6D do as is Snell. You can't deny what we have all seen and heard about 6D and personally, I think the technology is sound. However I also think there are other helmets out there that do a great job and are proven as well. I'm not one to jump on bandwagons. I like to see results.

 

Thanks for the heads-up on the SE3.  I went to their website and also read some reviews.  I think their claim of "most technologically advanced helmet" is . . . well, it's a lie, just like another helmet's claim of "maximum safety", but it's clear they at least acknowledge the concept of "low threshold impacts", which is a term they borrowed from 6D.  Their website is somewhat short on data, but maybe you can refer us to more information that would support your understandable preference to see results.  You must have seen some results to proclaim the SE3 "an awesome helmet!".  You may not have visited the 6D site if measurement by instrument is what you seek, and you have not read or listened to anyone who has crashed with both a 6D and a traditional helmet if you don't know that there have been plenty of tests done so far.  Put it this way, if you have ever hit your head hard enough to hurt with any helmet before, and then hit your head with a 6D on, you wouldn't need some guy with an accelerometer to tell you the g-force reduction is unbelievable.

 

Snell, DOT or ECE will never test for rotational impact, regardless of what your MIC contact said.  In fact, none of them will ever test for low threshold impact absorption, either.  There are plenty of good reasons for this, mostly in the form of money.  DOT doesn't have any, and Snell is dependent on an industry that wants nothing to do with competing based on impact absorption.  The manufacturers are happy to slap the sticker on, call it safe, and compete with each other based on stuff like weight, ventilation and graphics.  Up until about a year ago, magazine reviews didn't even mention helmet safety.  Now they are starting to.  MXA had a whole paragraph on SE3 safety.  Dual layer EPS with an initial damper in the comfort liner.  Thankfully, that is not the "most technologically advanced helmet" we have.  It's not bad, but it is hardly awesome.  

 

When you say other helmets do a great job and are proven, how do you reconcile that with your statement that you like to see results?  What results are you talking about? because I don't see a whole lot of helmet manufacturers publishing incremental impact speed vs. acceleration results, or acceleration over time results.  If you mean "proven" as in, people crashed and lived, that's one thing.  If you mean proven as in people crashed and lived and had zero concussion, when any reasonable person would have expected at least a concussion, then you have one helmet that has been proven.  Not many of us here on TT jump on bandwagons.  I have found this to be a community of independent thinkers wary of bullshit in any form.  You want to wait until the data comes in, I have no problem with that.  You think the SE3 is awesome, and I think it is good, but not even as technologically advanced as the Prada.

 

To compare an SE3 to an ATR-1, and even implying that they might yield similar results, is not consistent with the science and literature currently available, and definitely not consistent with my perspective.  Not that there is anything wrong with that, just anyone who cares might want to look into it before jumping on the bandwagon of complacency about this topic.  It once led me to make some pretty uninformed decisions in the past.  Probably lots of others, too.  That is changing, though.  Again, if you have information to contradict the statements I have made, I would be happy say I am wrong.  It isn't personal.  Even MXA says the SE3 is nowhere near the 6D.  So does Dirt Bike and Transworld MX.  I didn't need them to tell me the ATR-1 is awesome, because I crashed with one in a lights-out scenario that didn't phase me in the least.  So far, I have bought four of them, so my money is where my mouth is, and if anyone thinks Bob Weber gives these away . . . even to me . . . which I wish he would . . . he doesn't.  Which is good, because I will absolutely dump 6D in favor of a superior product, or an equal product offered at $1 less.  That should be some incentive for a company to truly be more technologically advanced.  It just hasn't happened yet.  

 

Here, arriving today (1 day AFTER my son's birthday, Scott!)  Is my son's newest lid.  Tell you what, the things get prettier every time.  Maybe that will encourage him to keep it off the ground.  Anyway, the good news is, we are now talking about impact protection.  When has that happened before 2013?  Not in a long, long time.  It is a good discussion.

 

[T4-Fast_Guy]

Wow Dragon do you work for 6D? Its obvious you are a huge fan boy of them. Thats cool! You believe in the brand and I can appreciate that. I have seen many of you posts on this subject and you seem to be willing to pound you chest about it to anyone who will listen and you seem to attack anyone with a varying opinion with a ton of venom. Thats passion and I love that.

 

Now to your point, 6D may very well be a game changer. If you really read my post I said "you cant  deny what we have all seen and heard about 6D and personally, I think the technology is sound."However, as I said, there is no way to quantify a percentage of decrease of impact because the equipment to test rotational impact is just not available yet. It will be soon.  Any numbers put out right now are just estimates done on a computer utilizing CGI. Even 6D's web site only show straight drop testing in real video and CGI for rotational forces. Impressive for sure and it may be accurate but we just don't know. Now, you make a claim of science and literature. Whos science? Whos literature? 6D's? You also must realize that a lot of the educational info on their website, while some is useful, is either very dated (the Thom report, 2005) or about football which is very different than what we do, in that a football player gets hit every single play and the effects are cumulative. Our impacts are only once in a great while (if we are lucky) and we have time to heal.

 

I agree with you on TLD's claim of "the most technologically advanced" is dated now. When they did that (08-09) the SE3 was doing things no other helmet manufacturer was doing at the time. Times have changed for sure. I will correct you though, in that the the term "low threshold impact" has been around long before 6D came around and was used back when the SE3 was released. I know Bob Weber personally and he is as stand up guy for sure. I have a ton of respect for himand admire what he has done.

 

Here is the bottom line.....I have been in the motorcycle industry for over 20 years. All I've sold in that time is protective gear. It is my job to know the ins and outs of everything out there. I have seem many products come and go. Are we on a run toward a game changer in helmet technology? I hope so. However,  I also have been riding and racing motorcycles for over 40 years (no shit, I started when I was 5...do the math!). I have used just about every helmet available at any given point. While I have never tested or even worn a 6D, there are only 2 helmets I have not been knocked out, rang my bell, or whatever term you wish to use. One is the Bell Moto9 Carbon, the other is the Troy Lee Designs SE3. That is why I say the SE3 is an awesome helmet. The Bell Moto9 is the reason I said "I also think there are other helmets out there that do a great job and are proven as well."

[humpness]

i have been wearing an se3 after coming off vfx-w.  pretty comfortable but the padding is better for shoei by a little.  i havent crashed yet.

[kawi rider 13]

I literally got my se3 in the mail 1 day ago. I'm trying it this Saturday for the first time. So far all I can say is that the paint job is by far the highest quality I've ever seen in my life. It is pretty comfy but I'm sure after a ride or two it'll break in and become more comfortable, I'll give an update after I try it.

[Dragon67]

Wow Dragon do you work for 6D? Its obvious you are a huge fan boy of them. Thats cool! You believe in the brand and I can appreciate that. I have seen many of you posts on this subject and you seem to be willing to pound you chest about it to anyone who will listen and you seem to attack anyone with a varying opinion with a ton of venom. Thats passion and I love that.

 

Now to your point, 6D may very well be a game changer. If you really read my post I said "you cant  deny what we have all seen and heard about 6D and personally, I think the technology is sound."However, as I said, there is no way to quantify a percentage of decrease of impact because the equipment to test rotational impact is just not available yet. It will be soon.  Any numbers put out right now are just estimates done on a computer utilizing CGI. Even 6D's web site only show straight drop testing in real video and CGI for rotational forces. Impressive for sure and it may be accurate but we just don't know. Now, you make a claim of science and literature. Whos science? Whos literature? 6D's? You also must realize that a lot of the educational info on their website, while some is useful, is either very dated (the Thom report, 2005) or about football which is very different than what we do, in that a football player gets hit every single play and the effects are cumulative. Our impacts are only once in a great while (if we are lucky) and we have time to heal.

 

I agree with you on TLD's claim of "the most technologically advanced" is dated now. When they did that (08-09) the SE3 was doing things no other helmet manufacturer was doing at the time. Times have changed for sure. I will correct you though, in that the the term "low threshold impact" has been around long before 6D came around and was used back when the SE3 was released. I know Bob Weber personally and he is as stand up guy for sure. I have a ton of respect for himand admire what he has done.

 

Here is the bottom line.....I have been in the motorcycle industry for over 20 years. All I've sold in that time is protective gear. It is my job to know the ins and outs of everything out there. I have seem many products come and go. Are we on a run toward a game changer in helmet technology? I hope so. However,  I also have been riding and racing motorcycles for over 40 years (no shit, I started when I was 5...do the math!). I have used just about every helmet available at any given point. While I have never tested or even worn a 6D, there are only 2 helmets I have not been knocked out, rang my bell, or whatever term you wish to use. One is the Bell Moto9 Carbon, the other is the Troy Lee Designs SE3. That is why I say the SE3 is an awesome helmet. The Bell Moto9 is the reason I said "I also think there are other helmets out there that do a great job and are proven as well."

 

No, I don't work for 6D.  But you rep for Troy Lee Designs, correct?  

 

Let's break this down a bit so we understand each other better.  I try very hard to never attack anyone personally on this or any other board.  I don't think it's polite or constructive to do so.  When posters do that, it diminishes them, in my opinion.  For example, you could be the smartest guy in the world with pure intentions to give honest information to your peers, but when you start calling posters names like "fan boy" and try to imply ulterior motives, it doesn't help the discussion.  If you can point to a post where I was particularly vitriolic to a fellow TTer on the subject of helmet safety, you know how to copy/paste.  I would be happy to review any comment you found particularly offensive.  An honest debate doesn't require a ton of venom, including this one.  

 

I have explained my motivation a number of times before, but in summary I was very naive about helmets when I started my son on a course of competitive motocross racing.  My son's riding partner suffered a severe concussion on my watch and the deterioration I witnessed was life changing, for me.  I also saw my son crash hard enough to destroy two 6D helmets and walk away like it was nothing.  Like everyone else, I have seen other more public demonstrations of real-world 6D efficacy, like Zach Bell, and I have read testimonials from others, most recently as published in Dirt Rider in conjunction with their choice of 6D as Product of the Year.  All this started my intense interest in helmet safety, from the evolution of helmet design to the standards used to certify them.  

 

As my personal experience with the 6D in particular has grown, I have published factual accounts about real-world events to add to the pool of knowledge on the topic.  I also study all the literature I can find on the general subject of helmet safety and about helmet certification.  I advocate for 6D as a rider, father, consumer and amateur student of the science and politics of the helmet industry.  Not only have I advised people I care about to buy the 6D, I actually bought one for the kid I mentioned above.  If that is what you call chest pounding, I guess I am guilty, but it is also evidence based and carefully considered chest pounding.

 

You implied that buying a 6D is like jumping on a bandwagon because you want to see results first, then you said the SE3 is awesome based on your personal experience alone.  You expressed skepticism and pointed out what you believe are limitations in the 6D data, and you discounted the rapidly growing body of independent literature telling all of us that, indeed, the ATR-1 does what 6D said it would do.  This includes not only Motocross Action (5 stars vs. the SE3's 4 stars), Dirt Rider and Transworld Motocross (Product of the Year), it also includes Dr. John Bodnar's observations, and testimonials from a growing number of pro riders and average guys like me that the ATR-1 delivers on it's promise.  The debate is over.  The ATR-1 works.  It isn't jumping on a bandwagon to buy one.  It's a smart and informed thing to do.

 

I am happy to review any helmet anyone recommends, and I have.  If you read back on these threads, I believe that riders and parents should choose at least dual layer EPS lids at a minimum.  I am sure I would have said an SE3 is a much better choice than the CL-X6 that I started my son on, only because it was Snell approved and I didn't know any better at the time.  Now I know a lot more than I did.  I know some will opt for a different helmet, especially if the ATR-1 doesn't fit them, but nobody should be under the false illusion that any other helmet is like the 6D, especially when their websites don't even bother to put up any data at all on impact testing.  That's not being a fan boy, that's me holding helmet manufacturers to a higher standard.  I think we should all do that.  Thanks for your reply.

Edited November 1, 2013 by Dragon67

[Dragon67]

Anyone have one of the troy lee se3 helmets? what do you think of it? i have ridden shoei and arai FOREVER and was thinking about trying one of these out but i dont have anywhere to look at one so i was just wondering what everyone thought of these compared to the shoei or arai helmets.

 

Sorry about that deviation.  The SE3 looks like a good lid, and it does have that extra layer of impact protection that should take the edge off a fall.  There is a pretty thorough MXA review on it.  I thought some of their concerns were interesting and may be relevant to you.  The Arai has a unique EPS liner that has multiple layers and reports say it's very comfortable.  The Shoei is due for an update, I think.  I would imagine their next generation will be impressive.  Obviously, consider the 6D, but as it stands you are looking at some solid helmets, as you know.

 

FYI, some literature.  This list contains all 3 helmets to ever get a 5-star review by MXA.

 

6D:  http://motocrossactionmag.com/Reviews/News/MXA-TEAM-TESTED-6D-ATR1-HELMET-10389.aspx

 

SE3: http://motocrossactionmag.com/Reviews/News/MXA-TEAM-TESTED-TROY-LEE-DESIGNS-SE3-HELMET--7745.aspx

 

Shoei:  http://motocrossactionmag.com/Reviews/News/MXA-PRODUCT-TEST-Shoei-VFXW-Helmet-6072.aspx

 

Arai:  http://www.araiamericas.com/images/pdf/VX-Pro3%20MXA%20review%20high-res%20for%20handout-01.pdf

Edited November 1, 2013 by Dragon67

[Bernie9]

Sorry about that deviation.  The SE3 looks like a good lid, and it does have that extra layer of impact protection that should take the edge off a fall.  There is a pretty thorough MXA review on it.  I thought some of their concerns were interesting and may be relevant to you.  The Arai has a unique EPS liner that has multiple layers and reports say it's very comfortable.  The Shoei is due for an update, I think.  I would imagine their next generation will be impressive.  Obviously, consider the 6D, but as it stands you are looking at some solid helmets, as you know.

 

FYI, some literature.  This list contains all 3 helmets to ever get a 5-star review by MXA.

 

6D:  http://motocrossactionmag.com/Reviews/News/MXA-TEAM-TESTED-6D-ATR1-HELMET-10389.aspx

 

SE3: http://motocrossactionmag.com/Reviews/News/MXA-TEAM-TESTED-TROY-LEE-DESIGNS-SE3-HELMET--7745.aspx

 

Shoei:  http://motocrossactionmag.com/Reviews/News/MXA-PRODUCT-TEST-Shoei-VFXW-Helmet-6072.aspx

 

Arai:  http://www.araiamericas.com/images/pdf/VX-Pro3%20MXA%20review%20high-res%20for%20handout-01.pdf

 

Reading some of your posts, you seem to know a thing or two about helmets  ? . Anyways wanted to get your opinion on the Airoh Aviator 2.1. From what i can tell it has recently been brought to the US market and i couldn't find much on safety reviews. Christmas is coming soon and i have started to get into motocross(went to the track for the 2nd time yesterday), i would love a 6D, but i don't think i could convince my parents to purchase a 750 dollar helmet, and i am a poor college student  :foul:so its out of my price range as well.

Right know i have the cheapest helmet Bell makes (i wish i would of done some research before i purchased it), and after going to the track and realizing how ridiculous motocross speeds are it makes me rethink the helmet i have. What you would recommend helmet wise other than the usual Arai, Shoei, Fox?

 

thanks,

[Dragon67]

Reading some of your posts, you seem to know a thing or two about helmets  ? . Anyways wanted to get your opinion on the Airoh Aviator 2.1. From what i can tell it has recently been brought to the US market and i couldn't find much on safety reviews. Christmas is coming soon and i have started to get into motocross(went to the track for the 2nd time yesterday), i would love a 6D, but i don't think i could convince my parents to purchase a 750 dollar helmet, and i am a poor college student  :foul:so its out of my price range as well.

Right know i have the cheapest helmet Bell makes (i wish i would of done some research before i purchased it), and after going to the track and realizing how ridiculous motocross speeds are it makes me rethink the helmet i have. What you would recommend helmet wise other than the usual Arai, Shoei, Fox?

 

thanks,

 

This is where people get mad at me for telling the truth. The Airoh Aviator 2.1 claims "maximum safety" which I seriously doubt.  As you saw, there are no safety reviews of this helmet, and whether you find manufacturers' data to be credible or not, there is nothing on the Airoh, even by Airoh.  Other TTers have pointed out that the Airoh has deep channels for ventilation that act as crush zones.  Makes sense to me, but if that is a safety feature, the marketing team at Airoh might want to point that out.   

 

My second choice at this point, if it fits you comfortably, is the Kali Prana with either carbon or fiberglass shell.  Not because of the shell, but because the EPS liner is fused to it to remove all gaps, and the two layers of EPS are bonded together with a unique system of interlocking cones.  It's light and comfortable according to another TTer.  It is on my list to buy for myself, since I don't care nearly as much about myself as I do my son, and I don't ride as fast, either.  Check out the write-up below, and take a look at their website.  I found both of them informative, but fivepointnine's word weighs more.  He endorses the Kali.

 

http://motocrossactionmag.com/mobile/News/USED-IT-ABUSED-IT-TESTED-IT-KALI-PRANA-CARBON-HELM-10068.aspx

 

http://www.kaliprotectives.com/moto/prana-frp

 

Your parents care about you, and Christmas is coming up.  So instead of a new gadget or something, maybe you can ask them for a gift that could very well save you from serious injury, especially since you are just getting into Motocross.  You will get faster quickly, and you will fall in the meantime.  $750 sounds like a lot until you think about what you are buying, and how much a concussion costs.  My buddy's son got an ambulance ride from my house to the ER and was admitted for an overnight stay after a very low-speed fall with a Snell certified lid.  That's expensive.  I hope you never need the helmet, but I know you will.  If you insist on saving a few hundred bucks, look at the Kali among other dual layer EPS lids, including the SE3.  That's what I would tell a friend.  I would also tell them to get a neck brace.  Hope that helps for now.  

[T4-Fast_Guy]

No, I don't work for 6D.  But you rep for Troy Lee Designs, correct?  

 

Let's break this down a bit so we understand each other better.  I try very hard to never attack anyone personally on this or any other board.  I don't think it's polite or constructive to do so.  When posters do that, it diminishes them, in my opinion.  For example, you could be the smartest guy in the world with pure intentions to give honest information to your peers, but when you start calling posters names like "fan boy" and try to imply ulterior motives, it doesn't help the discussion.  If you can point to a post where I was particularly vitriolic to a fellow TTer on the subject of helmet safety, you know how to copy/paste.  I would be happy to review any comment you found particularly offensive.  An honest debate doesn't require a ton of venom, including this one.  

 

I have explained my motivation a number of times before, but in summary I was very naive about helmets when I started my son on a course of competitive motocross racing.  My son's riding partner suffered a severe concussion on my watch and the deterioration I witnessed was life changing, for me.  I also saw my son crash hard enough to destroy two 6D helmets and walk away like it was nothing.  Like everyone else, I have seen other more public demonstrations of real-world 6D efficacy, like Zach Bell, and I have read testimonials from others, most recently as published in Dirt Rider in conjunction with their choice of 6D as Product of the Year.  All this started my intense interest in helmet safety, from the evolution of helmet design to the standards used to certify them.  

 

As my personal experience with the 6D in particular has grown, I have published factual accounts about real-world events to add to the pool of knowledge on the topic.  I also study all the literature I can find on the general subject of helmet safety and about helmet certification.  I advocate for 6D as a rider, father, consumer and amateur student of the science and politics of the helmet industry.  Not only have I advised people I care about to buy the 6D, I actually bought one for the kid I mentioned above.  If that is what you call chest pounding, I guess I am guilty, but it is also evidence based and carefully considered chest pounding.

 

You implied that buying a 6D is like jumping on a bandwagon because you want to see results first, then you said the SE3 is awesome based on your personal experience alone.  You expressed skepticism and pointed out what you believe are limitations in the 6D data, and you discounted the rapidly growing body of independent literature telling all of us that, indeed, the ATR-1 does what 6D said it would do.  This includes not only Motocross Action (5 stars vs. the SE3's 4 stars), Dirt Rider and Transworld Motocross (Product of the Year), it also includes Dr. John Bodnar's observations, and testimonials from a growing number of pro riders and average guys like me that the ATR-1 delivers on it's promise.  The debate is over.  The ATR-1 works.  It isn't jumping on a bandwagon to buy one.  It's a smart and informed thing to do.

 

I am happy to review any helmet anyone recommends, and I have.  If you read back on these threads, I believe that riders and parents should choose at least dual layer EPS lids at a minimum.  I am sure I would have said an SE3 is a much better choice than the CL-X6 that I started my son on, only because it was Snell approved and I didn't know any better at the time.  Now I know a lot more than I did.  I know some will opt for a different helmet, especially if the ATR-1 doesn't fit them, but nobody should be under the false illusion that any other helmet is like the 6D, especially when their websites don't even bother to put up any data at all on impact testing.  That's not being a fan boy, that's me holding helmet manufacturers to a higher standard.  I think we should all do that.  Thanks for your reply.

 

I do, proudly work for TLD, and ONE and Bell and SPY. In NY no less! I believe in the product I sell much like you believe in 6D. If Bob came to me and asked me to rep his product I would do so with equal pride. We can all agree that the product is a game changer. Really all I was trying to do was give the original poster an opinion based on experience. Its been an interesting conversation Dragon. Hope to see you at the races!!!

[Bernie9]

This is where people get mad at me for telling the truth. The Airoh Aviator 2.1 claims "maximum safety" which I seriously doubt.  As you saw, there are no safety reviews of this helmet, and whether you find manufacturers' data to be credible or not, there is nothing on the Airoh, even by Airoh.  Other TTers have pointed out that the Airoh has deep channels for ventilation that act as crush zones.  Makes sense to me, but if that is a safety feature, the marketing team at Airoh might want to point that out.   

 

My second choice at this point, if it fits you comfortably, is the Kali Prana with either carbon or fiberglass shell.  Not because of the shell, but because the EPS liner is fused to it to remove all gaps, and the two layers of EPS are bonded together with a unique system of interlocking cones.  It's light and comfortable according to another TTer.  It is on my list to buy for myself, since I don't care nearly as much about myself as I do my son, and I don't ride as fast, either.  Check out the write-up below, and take a look at their website.  I found both of them informative, but fivepointnine's word weighs more.  He endorses the Kali.

 

http://motocrossactionmag.com/mobile/News/USED-IT-ABUSED-IT-TESTED-IT-KALI-PRANA-CARBON-HELM-10068.aspx

 

http://www.kaliprotectives.com/moto/prana-frp

 

Your parents care about you, and Christmas is coming up.  So instead of a new gadget or something, maybe you can ask them for a gift that could very well save you from serious injury, especially since you are just getting into Motocross.  You will get faster quickly, and you will fall in the meantime.  $750 sounds like a lot until you think about what you are buying, and how much a concussion costs.  My buddy's son got an ambulance ride from my house to the ER and was admitted for an overnight stay after a very low-speed fall with a Snell certified lid.  That's expensive.  I hope you never need the helmet, but I know you will.  If you insist on saving a few hundred bucks, look at the Kali among other dual layer EPS lids, including the SE3.  That's what I would tell a friend.  I would also tell them to get a neck brace.  Hope that helps for now.  

Thanks so much,

 

That helmet is definitely in the price range, and could probably afford my self. Also while searching around on the local craigslist and found a Leatt Neck brace for 100 bucks  (GPX). I hope to get faster, and i have already had a little spill ?; Hey if you ain't falling you ain't trying. While checking my helmet out the other day i noticed a small gash in the liner. I read somewhere that helmets are one and done kinda thing, and was wondering if the helmet was still safe to use? It's pretty small and looks like a lever gashed it out.

 

Sad to hear about your friends son, hope he is alright.

[Dragon67]

No, I don't work for 6D.  But you rep for Troy Lee Designs, correct?  

 

Let's break this down a bit so we understand each other better.  I try very hard to never attack anyone personally on this or any other board.  I don't think it's polite or constructive to do so.  When posters do that, it diminishes them, in my opinion.  For example, you could be the smartest guy in the world with pure intentions to give honest information to your peers, but when you start calling posters names like "fan boy" and try to imply ulterior motives, it doesn't help the discussion.  If you can point to a post where I was particularly vitriolic to a fellow TTer on the subject of helmet safety, you know how to copy/paste.  I would be happy to review any comment you found particularly offensive.  An honest debate doesn't require a ton of venom, including this one.  

 

I have explained my motivation a number of times before, but in summary I was very naive about helmets when I started my son on a course of competitive motocross racing.  My son's riding partner suffered a severe concussion on my watch and the deterioration I witnessed was life changing, for me.  I also saw my son crash hard enough to destroy two 6D helmets and walk away like it was nothing.  Like everyone else, I have seen other more public demonstrations of real-world 6D efficacy, like Zach Bell, and I have read testimonials from others, most recently as published in Dirt Rider in conjunction with their choice of 6D as Product of the Year.  All this started my intense interest in helmet safety, from the evolution of helmet design to the standards used to certify them.  

 

As my personal experience with the 6D in particular has grown, I have published factual accounts about real-world events to add to the pool of knowledge on the topic.  I also study all the literature I can find on the general subject of helmet safety and about helmet certification.  I advocate for 6D as a rider, father, consumer and amateur student of the science and politics of the helmet industry.  Not only have I advised people I care about to buy the 6D, I actually bought one for the kid I mentioned above.  If that is what you call chest pounding, I guess I am guilty, but it is also evidence based and carefully considered chest pounding.

 

You implied that buying a 6D is like jumping on a bandwagon because you want to see results first, then you said the SE3 is awesome based on your personal experience alone.  You expressed skepticism and pointed out what you believe are limitations in the 6D data, and you discounted the rapidly growing body of independent literature telling all of us that, indeed, the ATR-1 does what 6D said it would do.  This includes not only Motocross Action (5 stars vs. the SE3's 4 stars), Dirt Rider and Transworld Motocross (Product of the Year), it also includes Dr. John Bodnar's observations, and testimonials from a growing number of pro riders and average guys like me that the ATR-1 delivers on it's promise.  The debate is over.  The ATR-1 works.  It isn't jumping on a bandwagon to buy one.  It's a smart and informed thing to do.

 

I am happy to review any helmet anyone recommends, and I have.  If you read back on these threads, I believe that riders and parents should choose at least dual layer EPS lids at a minimum.  I am sure I would have said an SE3 is a much better choice than the CL-X6 that I started my son on, only because it was Snell approved and I didn't know any better at the time.  Now I know a lot more than I did.  I know some will opt for a different helmet, especially if the ATR-1 doesn't fit them, but nobody should be under the false illusion that any other helmet is like the 6D, especially when their websites don't even bother to put up any data at all on impact testing.  That's not being a fan boy, that's me holding helmet manufacturers to a higher standard.  I think we should all do that.  Thanks for your reply.

 

I do, proudly work for TLD, and ONE and Bell and SPY. In NY no less! I believe in the product I sell much like you believe in 6D. If Bob came to me and asked me to rep his product I would do so with equal pride. We can all agree that the product is a game changer. Really all I was trying to do was give the original poster an opinion based on experience. Its been an interesting conversation Dragon. Hope to see you at the races!!!

It was interesting to me as well. I could talk about safety gear all day long. Amazing how buying your kid a 250F can focus you. Good selling and keep the passion. If you hear inner circle things, please share. Look forward to talking again, just don't call me fan boy, lol.

[Dragon67]

Thanks so much,

 

That helmet is definitely in the price range, and could probably afford my self. Also while searching around on the local craigslist and found a Leatt Neck brace for 100 bucks  (GPX). I hope to get faster, and i have already had a little spill ?; Hey if you ain't falling you ain't trying. While checking my helmet out the other day i noticed a small gash in the liner. I read somewhere that helmets are one and done kinda thing, and was wondering if the helmet was still safe to use? It's pretty small and looks like a lever gashed it out.

 

Sad to hear about your friends son, hope he is alright.

Buy the brace if you believe it hasn't been crashed. You can evaluate it when you get it. What kind of helmet are we talking about? Just curious. If there is a superficial mark on the liner, it isn't a big deal. Are you sure the thing has never been crashed?

Trevor is good. Fast, too. He definitely needs the 6D.

[Bernie9]

Buy the brace if you believe it hasn't been crashed. You can evaluate it when you get it. What kind of helmet are we talking about? Just curious. If there is a superficial mark on the liner, it isn't a big deal. Are you sure the thing has never been crashed?

Trevor is good. Fast, too. He definitely needs the 6D.

 

Glad he is ok

 

Yeah i will definitely give the brace a once-over. 

Well your probably going to cringe a little, but it is a Bell Sx-1 and i bought new  . I've crashed a few times before i found the puncture in the EPS and the slightly faster spill at the track, none at any serious speed though. But after you mentioned your friend it makes me question the integrity. I am headed home for the weekend, and ill try to take/upload a picture tomorrow. 

[Dragon67]

Glad he is ok

 

Yeah i will definitely give the brace a once-over. 

Well your probably going to cringe a little, but it is a Bell Sx-1 and i bought new  . I've crashed a few times before i found the puncture in the EPS and the slightly faster spill at the track, none at any serious speed though. But after you mentioned your friend it makes me question the integrity. I am headed home for the weekend, and ill try to take/upload a picture tomorrow.

Now you know better. Get a new lid, be glad you didn't crash hard and thankful that you didn't spend too much. I felt the same way about all the CL-X6s laying around my garage. The gash isn't relevant. Do some research and keep in touch. Also, consider buying from an on-line shop like Rocky MTN that handles fit issues with great service. Lots of clearances going on, too.

[j368]

Wow Dragon do you work for 6D? Its obvious you are a huge fan boy of them. Thats cool! You believe in the brand and I can appreciate that. I have seen many of you posts on this subject and you seem to be willing to pound you chest about it to anyone who will listen and you seem to attack anyone with a varying opinion with a ton of venom. Thats passion and I love that.

Now to your point, 6D may very well be a game changer. If you really read my post I said "you cant deny what we have all seen and heard about 6D and personally, I think the technology is sound."However, as I said, there is no way to quantify a percentage of decrease of impact because the equipment to test rotational impact is just not available yet. It will be soon. Any numbers put out right now are just estimates done on a computer utilizing CGI. Even 6D's web site only show straight drop testing in real video and CGI for rotational forces. Impressive for sure and it may be accurate but we just don't know. Now, you make a claim of science and literature. Whos science? Whos literature? 6D's? You also must realize that a lot of the educational info on their website, while some is useful, is either very dated (the Thom report, 2005) or about football which is very different than what we do, in that a football player gets hit every single play and the effects are cumulative. Our impacts are only once in a great while (if we are lucky) and we have time to heal.

I agree with you on TLD's claim of "the most technologically advanced" is dated now. When they did that (08-09) the SE3 was doing things no other helmet manufacturer was doing at the time. Times have changed for sure. I will correct you though, in that the the term "low threshold impact" has been around long before 6D came around and was used back when the SE3 was released. I know Bob Weber personally and he is as stand up guy for sure. I have a ton of respect for himand admire what he has done.

Here is the bottom line.....I have been in the motorcycle industry for over 20 years. All I've sold in that time is protective gear. It is my job to know the ins and outs of everything out there. I have seem many products come and go. Are we on a run toward a game changer in helmet technology? I hope so. However, I also have been riding and racing motorcycles for over 40 years (no shit, I started when I was 5...do the math!). I have used just about every helmet available at any given point. While I have never tested or even worn a 6D, there are only 2 helmets I have not been knocked out, rang my bell, or whatever term you wish to use. One is the Bell Moto9 Carbon, the other is the Troy Lee Designs SE3. That is why I say the SE3 is an awesome helmet. The Bell Moto9 is the reason I said "I also think there are other helmets out there that do a great job and are proven as well."

I think he's so passionate about it, is because his Son is still walking and talking after a very bad crash. I read somewhere the other day that the Military and some mainstream sports have contacted 6D and are in talks with them.

[Dragon67]

Thanks for your concise summary j368. 100% accurate. My goal is not to sell 6D, but to make sure as many people know as much as they can about helmet safety. You also pointed me to a nice pre-launch write-up and a video.

Video first. Believe it or not, as fast as this happens, you can feel it work:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzuO4yvAyY&feature=plcp&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZTzuO4yvAyY%26feature%3Dplcp

Here is the write-up. Very concise as well:

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/12/11/radical-new-motorcycle-helmet-hitting-road-next-year/

[brap450]

Tld helmets are sick and fit perfect, I have worn fly and one and tld fits so much better, I will be going back to fly though for sponsorship reasons but will always love my tld