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Shavings in oil filter.

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I just recently bought a 06 Honda 450 off of a relative. I've been changing the oil filter every three rides to keep fresh oil in the motor. The very first oil change I used a paper filter from Honda. The filter seemed clean of any shavings when I replaced it. The second oil change I used a stainless filter from MSR. When I changed out the stainless filter I found multiple shavings gathered up in a small circular shape.

 

As far as I know the bike doesn't have very many hours on it. 70-100 hours.  Is seeing shaving in your filter a sign of something wrong? or did I just get a lot of wear and tear from a fresh motor on that particular ride?   

 

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Ya shavings aren't normal.You'll see some fiber wear from time to time from the clutch but you shouldnt see anything big.Have you miss shifted alot?could be from the trans.How the clutch lever feel as well is it griddy feeling?If it is check to see if the shavings will stick to a magnet and if they won't then it may be from the clutch or the clutch basket.

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The gearbox oil on the CRF 450 is not filtered. So gear fragments and clutch plate contamination will not show up in the filter. The removeable filter only filters the engine/crank side.  Sometimes small flecks of black and silver will be found in my stainless filter after a rebuild and I have had no problems.  Gold for bronze particles are indicative of a bottom end rod bearing failure. I dont understand how the particles formed in a circular shape in the pleated filter.  Was there a "ball" of particles on the filter.  If so, how big, and what color were they?

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I have found wen you get silver flick in your engine side oil as said befor clutch n gear box run own oil and don't get filterd, could be the coating on the bore indacating you prob need a top end rebuild but if you do your better off getting new crank n bearings as well

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Flexs and and shavings are not uncommon.

It's the quantity and type that matter.

 

Next time, cut the filter open, lay it out, and scrape all the 'debris' on to  a piece of paper.

Create a make-shift cup out of the paper, and spray the debris with brake cleaner

Now you can look at it clearly to see what it is.

 

Usually, it's just casting junk, clutch junk, and some gear wear steel dust.

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Seeing multiple shavings and metal particles in the engine oil filter is certainly not normal for a well maintained properly serviced CRF450R. If the engine is making metal every oil change, something's coming apart. Either bottom-end rod/crank bearings, or top end wear which would indicate it's time for a fresh top end.

 

If you skipped a scheduled oil change or two, it would not be uncommon to see some minor particles in the oil filter, but not to the degree that you describe. It sounds like you may have exceeded the wear limits on the top end.

 

The engine should never make metal that can be seen with the naked eye such as what you described. If it is making that much metal, somethings wrong and should be identified and corrected. 

 

I have 3 CRF's, and none of them have ever made metal between oil changes.

 

Just my 2 cents.. 

 

JL

 

 

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Every bike I own has a magnetic drain plug.

Every bike I change the oil on has a small ball of 'metal fuzz' on the magnetic drain plug.

It has been this way for 11 bikes over 10 years.

I've never needed any internal motor work on any bike, other than top end wear replacement.

My Honda has the least amount of fuzz.

My Yamaha has by far the most.

 

A certain amount of metal is absolutely normal on a production motorcycle.

If there were no metal, how would things wear out? Why would all the parts have 'wear marks' on them, which they do, but still be in spec, which they are....and not sluff off metal as it occurs?

 

Next time you hang out at your buddies house with a KX450, look at HIS filter. It's scary how fast a KX motor wears out. 

Edited by Krannie

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I just recently bought a 06 Honda 450 off of a relative. I've been changing the oil filter every three rides to keep fresh oil in the motor. The very first oil change I used a paper filter from Honda. The filter seemed clean of any shavings when I replaced it. The second oil change I used a stainless filter from MSR. When I changed out the stainless filter I found multiple shavings gathered up in a small circular shape.

 

As far as I know the bike doesn't have very many hours on it. 70-100 hours.  Is seeing shaving in your filter a sign of something wrong? or did I just get a lot of wear and tear from a fresh motor on that particular ride?   

Go back to the paper filter. The stainless steel mesh filters cannot filter down to nearly as low a level as a paper filter can.

Edited by Lead Head

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+1 on the magnetic drain plug.... any metal flakes cruising around in a 450r honda motor had to go through the oil pump before it could reach the filter. The oil pump gears ride directly on the center cases, and once damaged usually require replacing the cases....... I had a 2011 shell out a roller on one of the crank side bearings when the bike was brand new, it cost a crapload to fix it, and Honda was anything but helpfull.... What was amazing to me was how little actually showed up in the filter, most of it was stuck to the flywheel magnets and pickups... By the time we decided to pull it apart it was too late.... I feel that the metal would've showed up sooner on a magnetic drain plug, and the decision may have been made sooner... still maybe too late though. The little mesh screen and filter were usless to prevent any damage whatsoever.... Good luck

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A stainless filter flows much more oil.  That is good for the motor.

A stainless filter allows larger debris to pass. That is bad for the motor.

A paper filter does not flow as much oil.

A paper filter traps smaller debris.

 

You decide.

 

Just to keep it in perspective, no Factory team of MX, Enduro, Supercross or Supermoto uses a Stainless Steel mesh filter.

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When I say I saw shavings I'm talking about 20 or 30 tiny flakes. Not a tea spoon full.   And yes they are silver in color.  This is not the same filter but it looked about the same.  filter_0966.jpg

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When I say I saw shavings I'm talking about 20 or 30 tiny flakes. Not a tea spoon full. And yes they are silver in color. This is not the same filter but it looked about the same. Posted Image

If the whole filter looked like this and that was from four-five hours or riding I personally would have that motor in a thousand pieces by now.

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No the whole filter did not look like the picture.  When I was looking at the filter it looked about 90% clear of debris, or really clean .  However, there were 2 or three ridges or gaps that looked like the above picture.  I noticed that the stainless filter caught all the flakes where oil flowed into the oil cavity. I think that's why a small part of the filter had flakes I could see. 

 

I'm going to change my filter again and post up a picture if I see anything.

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Well that's not bad.. But if It gets any worse.. PANIC! Haha if it dosnt improve after two or three more I'd go ahead tear it apart.

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Yeah, those are big pieces. They look like aluminum to me. Check them with a magnet. If they are steel, I wouldn't ride the bike...

Looks like you have a case boss failing somewhere. Probably the kick start ratchet stop.

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Yeah, those are big pieces. They look like aluminum to me. Check them with a magnet. If they are steel, I wouldn't ride the bike...

Looks like you have a case boss failing somewhere. Probably the kick start ratchet stop.

Kick start stop is on tranny side sir. This is a crf. Tranny side does not pass through filter.

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Yeah, those are big pieces. They look like aluminum to me. Check them with a magnet. If they are steel, I wouldn't ride the bike...

Looks like you have a case boss failing somewhere. Probably the kick start ratchet stop.

Wouldnt anything with the kickstart be in the unfiltered tranny side oil?

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I use stainless filters in my 09 450R.. change the oil every 8-10 hours and clean the  SS filter in a large ultrasonic cleaner at every oil change. I inspect the filter by naked eye and also using a large magnifying glass each time I pull it.

 

Not to argue the point, but I currently have 3 Honda CRF bikes, have had several various other type bikes over the past 20 years, and none of them have ever made visible metal shavings/flakes in the oil filter or drain plug. I'm extremely anal, methodical, and meticulous with the scheduled maintenance on all of my bikes, meaning I "over service" when it comes to oil changes, cleaning the oil filter, air filter, wheel and suspension bearings, etc. I spend more money over servicing my bikes than most do on routine maintenance. 

 

In addition, I have been an FAA A&P, IA, and FCC mechanic my entire adult life. Thus - notice the plane in the background of most pic's I post. No engine should be making metal "measurable" in large size chunks, shavings, flakes, etc.. all engines do in fact make metal, but mostly invisible to the naked eye. This is why most aviation owners/operators (which I am) commercial operators, Military, and FBO's send engine oil samples out to a lab for oil analysis every 50 - 100 hours of flight time.

 

I can't speak for any other rider or maintainer on this forum, but I can speak specifically to my 09 CRF450R. I have never seen metal flakes, shavings, or particles in the OEM paper filter, nor in my stainless steel filter. If I was to see metal, my engine would come apart for a new top end rebuild, and thorough inspection. If there is a lot of "fuzz" build-up on the drain plug, that is an indication normal piston skirt and cylinder wear. That's why Honda recommends replacing the 450R piston every 15 hours, which very few people do. Most people try to get the most out of each rebuild, and depending on how a bike is ridden makes a lot of difference. If all you do is race mx and stay against the rev limiter, 15 - 30 hrs is about all one can expect. On the other hand, weekend riders that don't race or push the bike to the limit can expect to get longer piston/wear life, 50 to 75 hours. I have friends that have got over 100 hrs out of a piston in a 450R, and it still didn't look bad. All depends on how one rides.   

 

Some metal shavings and particles is normal immediately following a rebuild, which is due to break-in and flushing out all the trash and gasket material that found its way into the engine during the rebuild. However, following the initial break-in and engine flush following a rebuild.. there should not be any visible metal in the filter. Especially measurable in shavings, flakes, chunks, or particles. If there is, something else is wearing out such as rod or crank bearings in the bottom end.

 

Everyone has an opinion… what's acceptable to some people, is not acceptable to others. It all depends on each individuals definition and interpretation of quality maintenance, acceptable wear limits, and what the OEM Service Manual says. I for one follow the OEM service manual. Others may or may not. 

 

I'm overly anal when it comes to maintenance regardless if it's an aviation engine, or my bike engine. I treat them the same when it comes to servicing, cleaning, maintaining, and scheduled maintenance.  

 

My 09 450R's current condition is "equal to or better than" a new one. That's primarily due to the way I service and maintain it. 

 

No metal in my SS filter during oil changes. 

 

JL

 

  

 

 

 

 

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Agreed. Directly after a rebuild is understandable. Other than that either your crank bearing are going out and that's from your cylinder and piston or just the top end. If that happens again I would tear that thing apart. That's just me though

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