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small crack on cylinder, big issue or JB Weld and keep on keeping on?

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as many of you have read or figured out both my DRZ 400 E models are down, but I'm in the process of putting them back together

 

one the top end is shot, head damaged and piston worthless, so it is getting a CW 434, new valves and the works

 

the other the cylinder and piston are good internally, just the intake valves weren't seating properly so I'm having the head machined and new seats pressed in and all should be well again with a set of new rings

 

here is the question though, I noticed a small crack on the cylinder on the right side just behind there the bolts that come up from the bottem end are, where you put the two nuts on. There is a small crack just behind the firt nut, or one closest to the rear wheel.

 

Since this flange or whatever you want to call it exists to allow the cam chain to more and remain snug I don't figure it gets a lot of oil or oil pressure and figure the crack can likely be fixed with some JB Weld and be fine, but I wanted to ask in case others had other notions

 

honestly I don't know why they even bother have those two studs and nuts there anway, the torque spec on them is ridulously low and the cylinder head bots that go through the head, cylinder and into the bottom end case are more than adequate

 

Anyway just thought I would get the concensus. I don't care to have to get one of my 3 cylinders honed or machined to replace the problem, but if need be I will.

 

It would seem a perfect place for a big of JB Weld seeing as how people fix cases and such with it and it does fine

 

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JB weld is useless for that. Post a picture.  Your options are use as is,weld or replace.  Should be some standard cylinders around pretty cheap.

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Well , I would say the two nuts and studs are there for a reason , notice they are fitted at the cam chain tunnel area . Fitted for strength and sealing .

 

that's what i was thinking. maybe it keeps the cylinder from rocking left/right, or maybe it's just overkill. i'm no engine builder fer shure ;-)

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Well , I would say the two nuts and studs are there for a reason , notice they are fitted at the cam chain tunnel area . Fitted for strength and sealing .

 

The reason I say they seem pretty worthless is the torque spec on them is like 7 ft lbs which is prety much just about or slightly less than finger tight which wouldn't seem to be enough to hold anything

 

yeah the crack is directly behind the left bolt/stud or rearmost one located towards the back wheel, it is is a small crack right behind the stud and nut

 

I wouldn't think there would be much oil pressure right there given it is  just a space for the cam chain to move in, haven't seen it leaking, but figure it will

Edited by dirtdude723

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JB weld is useless for that. Post a picture.  Your options are use as is,weld or replace.  Should be some standard cylinders around pretty cheap.

 

I have extra cylinders, but just don't want to take it all down and rebuild, again so was seeing if it was a serious issue or one of those, "yeah it isn't right but will just weep a little oil" type deals

 

I fully appreciate any crack in a casing isn't a good thing, but given people have repaired cracks abnd holes in a case with JB Weld and been fine I thought I would ask about this small crack just to see

 

I'm sure I will end up replacing it, but just wanted to see how much oil pressure there is in that area or if others have had the same and what they did

 

thanks as usual for all info and advice

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That's the exact spot I cracked my CW big bore during install. It was my fault, I improperly torqued the head down and while tightening that rear nut down on the stud I heard a crack. Sure enough when everything was done it leaked from that spot.

I had to get another cylinder..... I knew JB weld wouldn't do it.

Ron W.

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That's the exact spot I cracked my CW big bore during install. It was my fault, I improperly torqued the head down and while tightening that rear nut down on the stud I heard a crack. Sure enough when everything was done it leaked from that spot.

I had to get another cylinder..... I knew JB weld wouldn't do it.

Ron W.

 

 

did CW not do anything to help you?

 

I understand that torque specs exist for a reason, but good gosh an aftermarket cylinder shouldn't be so fragile as to crack from a simple bolt that has less than 10 ft lbs on it, that's ridiculous

 

what did you do to fix it?

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I would not have it welded.  Its aluminum and the heat from the weld will disfigure the cylinder in that area.  I'd go with JB weld or another aluminum epoxy just to keep the oil from leaking or dirt from entering.  JB weld might be the most oil resistant.  It is not oil proof, but the area is not going to be in constant contact with oil.   Besides if the leak redevelops, what is the worst thing that will happen.  It's not a huge hole and you could drive 500 miles and not loose much oil.

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I would not have it welded.  Its aluminum and the heat from the weld will disfigure the cylinder in that area.  I'd go with JB weld or another aluminum epoxy just to keep the oil from leaking or dirt from entering.  JB weld might be the most oil resistant.  It is not oil proof, but the area is not going to be in constant contact with oil.   Besides if the leak redevelops, what is the worst thing that will happen.  It's not a huge hole and you could drive 500 miles and not loose much oil.

 

that's pretty much my thinking, just wanted to see if others had same experience and their resolution, but yeah what you said is exactly how I was looking at it

 

if it was on the cylinder or in the case or what have you then would be different, but it's on the outside of the cam chain space it's not exactly under high pressure and doesn't have high oil pressure

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that's pretty much my thinking, just wanted to see if others had same experience and their resolution, but yeah what you said is exactly how I was looking at it

 

if it was on the cylinder or in the case or what have you then would be different, but it's on the outside of the cam chain space it's not exactly under high pressure and doesn't have high oil pressure

It's under no oil pressure, only oil flying off the cam chain.  Pressure built up from piston blow buy and heat is vented back to the air box.  Oil pressure is only inside the oil passages.

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It's under no oil pressure, only oil flying off the cam chain.  Pressure built up from piston blow buy and heat is vented back to the air box.  Oil pressure is only inside the oil passages.

 

that's exactly what I thought and why I figured some JB Weld would easily take care of it and stop it from weeping since it's not under high oil pressure and that part basically exists just to keep the cam chain covered

 

plan of attack:

 

run it as is and see how much oil it leaks, guessing not much

 

put some JB Weld on it if leaking enough to need it

 

run and see how much it leaks, if any

 

if the JB Weld doesn't fix it I will replace the cylinder

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That's the exact spot I cracked my CW big bore during install. It was my fault, I improperly torqued the head down and while tightening that rear nut down on the stud I heard a crack. Sure enough when everything was done it leaked from that spot.

I had to get another cylinder..... I knew JB weld wouldn't do it.

Ron W.

 

I don't get peoples aprehension about using JB Weld on small stuff? I've seen people throw a chain and tear a hole in the case JB Weld it up and never have a problem so I don't see why a small crack no under direct oil pressure would be a problem

 

I know it ain't the sexiest solution, but it beats buying a cylinder or paying to have one machined or whatever

 

Just curious why some are so certain JB Weld won't work on a small crack without direct oil pressure when I have seen and heard stories of people patching up 50 cent sized holes with it on the crankcase with the intention of fixing it and then deciding to just leave it after it doesn't leak and never missing a beat

 

 

I have two stock cylinders in good shape, PM me.

 

Piedmont Triad : W-S, Kernersville, High Point, Greenboro

Edited by dirtdude723

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did CW not do anything to help you?

 

I understand that torque specs exist for a reason, but good gosh an aftermarket cylinder shouldn't be so fragile as to crack from a simple bolt that has less than 10 ft lbs on it, that's ridiculous

 

what did you do to fix it?

did CW not do anything to help you?

 

I understand that torque specs exist for a reason, but good gosh an aftermarket cylinder shouldn't be so fragile as to crack from a simple bolt that has less than 10 ft lbs on it, that's ridiculous

 

what did you do to fix it?

I called CW and they warranted it, no hassle no problem. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from then again, that's good customer service.

When I called them and the tech said he had another one cracked in the same spot on his desk from a guy in Canada. I'm guessing it's a poor design from Suzuki and CW obviously has to match the design

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I called CW and they warranted it, no hassle no problem. I wouldn't hesitate to buy from then again, that's good customer service.

When I called them and the tech said he had another one cracked in the same spot on his desk from a guy in Canada. I'm guessing it's a poor design from Suzuki and CW obviously has to match the design

That was the smart thing to do.  It always amazes me how well some of these well know aftermarket companies stand behind their products.

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That was the smart thing to do.  It always amazes me how well some of these well know aftermarket companies stand behind their products.

Yeah , when companies do this it is good for their business , and we have no hesitation in using their product .

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It was a CW cylinder, called them and they asked me to ship it back and they would replace it, which they did, as best I know anyway because the replacement still has not arrived and supposed to be in the mail and arrive next week

 

my only issue is it shouldn't have cracked to begin with, not to be "superior" aftermarket product and regardless of Suzuki design they should and could improve upon and weaknesses especially given it's not exactly a rare thing for their cylinders to crack

 

the defect caused me to miss out not only on two good days of riding, but I also didn't do a hare scramble or SM event that I had intended to do because the dang defective cylinder cracked on Fri night and I was SOL until Mon and even then still will have taken nearly 10 days to get a replacement by the time it arrives next Tues

 

yes they did offer me the option of buying another and then having my account credited once they got the defective one back which they did receive Thurs BTW, but I didn't care to pay them again for something I shouldn't have had to deal with to start with

 

so whlie they did a fair job of fixing the problem, they certainly didn't help expedite the remedy and I will have been without a bike and replacement cylinder for roughly 10 days and I took the old kit off, boxed it up and had it in the mail on Tues after speaking with them on Mon to find out exactly what to do so to me having to wait over a week is a big much considering I can get one next day from any vendor around

 

I guess can say I'm happy they replaced it, which they should have no doubt, but the lost time, $$$ paying for shipping and aggravation of having to deal with it cannot be replaced nor did they really offer any compensation for it other than giving me a couple sets of wheel bearings that I have no need of and likely won't for so long I'll be lucky to know where they are by the time I do need them

 

not saying they didn't do a fair job of resolving the problem, my point is for an aftermarket kit to cost as much as a CW kit does there should never be a need for resolving a cracked cylinder because the "superior" design of aftermarket goods should be such that the cylinder won't be prone to crack so easily to begin with

 

futhermore all CW does is makes cylinders, out of their big bore kits the ONLY thing made by CW in the box is the cylinder, the rest is a Vertex piston and rings and Cometic gasket so seeing as how all they do is make the cylinders you would think they would be a lot stronger and vastly superior to failing than that of an OEM

 

while I'm at it also got a Wiseco piston kit for my other DRZ and I think I quickly figured out why the CW cylinder cracked, because it has a 3 layer base and head gasket whereas the Wiseco kit has a single layer base and triple layer head gasket and I would have to think the 3 layers instead of 1 factored heavily in the cylinder stress and cracking

 

anyway it is what it is, not saying CW isn't a good company and I will recommend them to customers since they did technically stand behind their stuff and do right, I just wish they would have sent out a new kit once they received confirmation of the defective one being en route thru a tracking number with weight and declared value so I wouldn't have to waste yet another weekend without my bike(s)

Edited by dirtdude723

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It was my fault, I improperly torqued the head down and while tightening that rear nut down on the stud

 

I would have been happy to get a new one  even on my shipping dime  if I screwed up

 

 

 

I think they deserve credit not a bashing like "Ya it was my fault  and they are sending Me a new one but I wanted it shipped the same day and compensation other than those bearings I don't want "

 

that is  what your stating isn't it ?

 

 

  I guess can say I'm happy they replaced it, which they should have no doubt, but the lost time, $$$ paying for shipping and just dealing with it and the aggravation of having to deal with it cannot be replaced nor did they really offer any compensation for other than giving me a couple sets of wheel bearings

and  MLS gaskets have a purpose so that May be why they went that route

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