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Oil volume 2003 Ktm300 EXC?

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It should be on the CASE COVER. 800ml is the stated amount, but you can put in a full qt. Its just a bath, there will not be any problems with going extra. In fact more oil will be better for cooling and less contamination. Also, dont use the check bolt as they have been known to strip. This aint rocket science, just use the measuring marks on the bottle.

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It should be on the CASE COVER. 800ml is the stated amount, but you can put in a full qt. Its just a bath, there will not be any problems with going extra. In fact more oil will be better for cooling and less contamination. Also, dont use the check bolt as they have been known to strip. This aint rocket science, just use the measuring marks on the bottle.

Too much oil is not better, it will cause the clutch to drag more than it should and can have other adverse effects. Run the proper amount imo, the engineers who decided on that much oil knew what they were doing. 

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Not really.

Maybe if your some of the top 10 racers where that .001% of a HP loss caused by some extra drag might be an issue.

The clutch gets a complete bath when its spining, because the oil is slung all around.

 

Adding 200cc extra isnt a big deal. Ive been doing it for over 30 yrs with no "adverse" effects. Id like to hear what those effects are from you Squid. And, the amount of drag can be dependant on what fluid you are useing. Gear oil has much more drag than ATF (which has been used extensivly for decades).

 

Ill start by saying that the positive effects are,

 

1- increased cooling because of more volume

2- increased clutch longevity due to more oil per contaminents

3-more chance of surviving a broken clutch cover

4- less chance of running out of trans oil due to a main seal leak

5- filling by volume added means never having a stripped check screw.

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Not really.

Maybe if your some of the top 10 racers where that .001% of a HP loss caused by some extra drag might be an issue.

The clutch gets a complete bath when its spining, because the oil is slung all around.

 

Adding 200cc extra isnt a big deal. Ive been doing it for over 30 yrs with no "adverse" effects. Id like to hear what those effects are from you Squid. And, the amount of drag can be dependant on what fluid you are useing. Gear oil has much more drag than ATF (which has been used extensivly for decades).

 

Ill start by saying that the positive effects are,

 

1- increased cooling because of more volume

2- increased clutch longevity due to more oil per contaminents

3-more chance of surviving a broken clutch cover

4- less chance of running out of trans oil due to a main seal leak

5- filling by volume added means never having a stripped check screw.

Well first ill say this, the engineers who designed that system decided on 700cc for a reason, and I'm quite certain that if they felt 800cc was better, or was going to make the transmission last a lot longer they would have called for 800cc.

Second, I don't think you're that likely to damage your bike by running 8 or 949cc what comes standard in the bottle, but I doubt it's gonna make much difference in longevity too. In fact I'd be willing to bet if you really checked the payoff would be best if you saved the extra oil each time and just banked it until it was enough for another oil change.

Ill take your others one at a time.

1- increased cooling because of more volume

I've not heard of anyone overheat their Ktm clutch. In fact they're damn near bullet proof and the fibers/aluminum+steels last forever. I don't think the extra oil you add does a thing to help here.

2- increased clutch longevity due to more oil per contaminents

I've had to put two crank shafts in my 01 200 and many top ends, I abuse the hell out of the clutch racing hare scrambles in the Vet A class, despite wearing out two cranks and one clutch basket because it was super notched I'm still running the stock fibers, two steel frictions, and other alUminum frictions. They are all within spec, just measured when I split the cases to replace a broken third gear. I use ATF do you think I should change?

3-more chance of surviving a broken clutch cover

I've seen guys poke holes and lose all the fluid, run for an hour before noticing and still be fine. I wouldn't want to do it though. But the fact is if its draining fast enough to drai. 700cc how much longer does 200cc buy you? 30 seconds if you're being generous?

4- less chance of running out of trans oil due to a main seal leak.

Dude, fix your damn main seal, if it leaks that fast out the main seal you better notice and fix it. If its fast enough to drain 700cc again how much time does an extra 200 buy you?

5- filling by volume added means never having a stripped check screw.

I always fill by volume and never remove the check screw, and here is the real kicker, I add just a touch extra, maybe 20cc just to be sure. But I tell ya what I wouldn't lose a bit of sleep if it only had 650cc. Like you said it all gets slung around, there's no pump...

Other adverse effects, I know you wanted this part, well I've seen guys spewing it out breather and making a mess of everything. I think Maico even made a chain oiler out of one on some models. I believe it can also create more pressure inside the cases and its harder on main seals! You see that extra oils is gonna blow your main seal and cause you to lose your oil.

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Well, I guess that your points are based on supposition, since you dont do it.

 

Myself and others have done this with no problems.

 

 

 

 I don't think the extra oil you add does a thing to help here. 

 

When your going through a uphill gulley thats coverd in grass hiding boulders and your clutching the begezus out of it, thats when you get the extra heat Im refering to. Its not much, but it is more. You cant argue that it may help more.

 

 

 

 

 I use ATF do you think I should change? 

 Not at all. I like ATF. But increased drag? Cmon man! Thats a stretch.

 

 

 

I've seen guys poke holes and lose all the fluid, run for an hour before noticing and still be fine. I wouldn't want to do it though. But the fact is if its draining fast enough to drai. 700cc how much longer does 200cc buy you? 30 seconds if you're being generous?

Not every hole is the same size. If you get a leaker, Id rather take my chances with 1 qt than 700 cc. Or, if someone in my group suffers a hit, I can afford yo share some to help get him out. Again, the bottom line is more is better.

 

 

 

Dude, fix your damn main seal, if it leaks that fast out the main seal you better notice and fix it. If its fast enough to drain 700cc again how much time does an extra 200 buy you? 

Again with the assumptions. The main, or any other seal can develope a leak DURING a ride, right?

 

 

 

spewing it out breather,  and its harder on main seals! You see that extra oils is gonna blow your main seal and cause you to lose your oil. 

Ive been running a1 qt since forever. Never had any come out the breather.

How is a bath gonna create pressure enough to lean on the seals, let alone blow them out?

 

All your points are based on supposition, while those of us who do it have never run into any of your scenarios.

 

Hey, whatever works, right?

Edited by terdog

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Well, I guess that your points are based on supposition, since you dont do it.

 

Myself and others have done this with no problems.

 

 

When your going through a uphill gulley thats coverd in grass hiding boulders and your clutching the begezus out of it, thats when you get the extra heat Im refering to. Its not much, but it is more. You cant argue that it may help more.

 

 

 Not at all. I like ATF. But increased drag? Cmon man! Thats a stretch.

 

Not every hole is the same size. If you get a leaker, Id rather take my chances with 1 qt than 700 cc. Or, if someone in my group suffers a hit, I can afford yo share some to help get him out. Again, the bottom line is more is better.

 

Again with the assumptions. The main, or any other seal can develope a leak DURING a ride, right?

 

Ive been running a1 qt since forever. Never had any come out the breather.

How is a bath gonna create pressure enough to lean on the seals, let alone blow them out?

 

All your points are based on supposition, while those of us who do it have never run into any of your scenarios.

 

Hey, whatever works, right?

The only person suffering from a supposition is you bud. You're the one with an uncertain and certainly unproven belief that adding in extra fluid is making your bike last longer. More than likely you're just pouring money down the drain. 

 

I say if you think 1qt is that good why not fill it up with 1.25 quarts, wouldn't that be even better? And hey without some testing you'll never know, just like you don't know if 1qt is any better than .7l. I've never had a leaky main seal, I certainly don't think that an extra 200cc's is going to save my transmission if I crack a case and ride it in, and if I'm that worries I'll just stop riding and figure something else out. And spare me the life or death situation where 200cc's saves my life :lol:

 

You can keep living under the supposition that an extra 200cc's is better and I'll rest assured the engineers who designed and build this thing knew what they were doing for a FACT much better than you do. Do you think that is safe to assume?

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You're the one with an uncertain and certainly unproven belief

Your claiming damage that isnt proven. I and others do it without any harm. Your the one who is making claims that are not supported. My claim is simple. That it doesnt hurt. Prove your claim, as I have others who do it without harm.

 

 

I say if you think 1qt is that good why not fill it up with 1.25 quarts, wouldn't that be even better? 

Your grasp of a simple concept is lacking. We are making life simple. Most buy oil by the qt. Put it all in. Its not gonna hurt, and you dont have partial qts laying around. Simple.

 

 

 rest assured the engineers who designed and build this thing knew what they were doing for a FACT much better than you do. Do you think that is safe to assume?

Really? You wanna go there?  Wasnt it those same engineers who designed that wonderful late model gas cap? Who designed the E starter that burns out faster than it should? Who designed a check bolt that strips after useing it? The same engineers who say to use a certain lube, but you ignore them and put in ATF? Kinda selective on your part isnt it?

 

Once again, the concept is, put in a little extra to finish of the qt and know that it is covered.

 

Im done. You can have the last word.

Edited by terdog

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Your claiming damage that isnt proven. I and others do it without any harm. Your the one who is making claims that are not supported. My claim is simple. That it doesnt hurt. Prove your claim, as I have others who do it without harm.

Your grasp of a simple concept is lacking. We are making life simple. Most buy oil by the qt. Put it all in. Its not gonna hurt, and you dont have partial qts laying around. Simple.

Really? You wanna go there?  Wasnt it those same engineers who designed that wonderful late model gas cap? Who designed the E starter that burns out faster than it should? Who designed a check bolt that strips after useing it? The same engineers who say to use a certain lube, but you ignore them and put in ATF? Kinda selective on your part isnt it?

 

Once again, the concept is, put in a little extra to finish of the qt and know that it is covered.

 

Im done. You can have the last word.

Well I can tell you this much, My buddy runs an 01 380 and he used to do exactly what you say, add in the extra, then when he started racing and we were doing dead engine starts he kept asking me how I nail the hole shot everytime, quite simple really, I start the bike in second gear. He says his clutch drags too much to do this. So he get's to experimenting around and figures out that adding in the extra oil causes there to be significantly more clutch drag than when he adds in the .8liters his 380 calls for. Fills it with the correct amount and WHAMMO he can successfully fire the bike in second gear nearly every time. 

 

Here is a moderator of this site who explains why it can increase heat. and like I said until you've done some testing you're the one operating under SUPPOSITION.

 

 

The problem with too much oil is churning. When you saturate the transmission, the gears are forced to pump the excess oil from between the teeth when they mesh, which generally isnt a problem when there is enough room for the oil to go. But with too much oil, you run into a problem with the oil being able to exit the gear lash effectively and you can get over heating and excessive pressures in the trans which will jepardize the engine/trans seal.

If you simply measure out the 650cc's you'll be fine, but its when you decide to use the check hole without doing the entire riga-ma-role to use it properly so the level is checked correctly.

Running an extra 100cc's probably wont cause any problems, but running an entire liter of trans oil just seems like too much in my opinion. Lots of guys are doing it without a problem...but that doesnt make it right either. I guess if you figured out what the total maximum volume of the trans was and ran 50% of that, you'd probably ok. But running more than that, I think you're asking for some kind of a wierd problem.

 

 

And here is an example of a guy who's bike was running perfectly before he put too much gear oil in and then guess what, extra pressure blew a seal, hmm did I mention that's possible. And I know you want to know why, its the same thing as adding in extra oil into your forks and having less air volume 

 

Hi,

I managed to overfill my KX250 with gear oil when trying to flush the bad oil out. I put around 1.2L and rode it round gently for a couple on minutes. It was pissing out lot of smoke so I quickly killed the engine. The bike should have been filled with 0.85L. I emptied the oil again and filled it up with the correct amount, but now it doesn't rev properly. The revs start to die off when the bikes about half way through the range and it is still pissing out smoke. Compression in fine.

The bike was smoking normally before I started the oil changes so I assumimg oil has gone where it shouldn't be and now its burning off. Can anyone confirm this? And should I be worried about anything or will it just come good from running it?

Thanks,

Lucas

 

 

 

Another guy on another site who agrees with me.

 

http://forum.dirtrider.com/discussion/8624849/can-slightly-inserting-too-much-transmission-oil-into-/p1

 

More people saying the exact same thing.

 

http://www.dirtbikeworld.net/forum/archive/index.php/t-82273.html

 

 

 

 

well it does put extra pressure on the seals so thats not good but as for mechanically... im not sure

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Well that was a fun pissing match. I run the full quart because i'm lazy.

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Well that was a fun pissing match. I run the full quart because i'm lazy.

like I told him the first time I doubt a quart will hurt anything, but there is certainly a point where more is not better and it's probably really close to what the manufacturer recommends.

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I agree for the most part. But I run an auto lube system on my chain (aka leaky counter shaft seal). The extra volume gives me piece of mind.

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I agree for the most part. But I run an auto lube system on my chain (aka leaky counter shaft seal). The extra volume gives me piece of mind.

I've never added extra (okay more than 20-30cc) and I've never had a leaky countershaft and I've owned my fair share of these 98+KTM's, coincidence? Who knows..... 

 

And if it's leaking that bad you'll probably know.... If you've got a puddle under your bike before you go ride an you hope you added in and extra xxxcc to cover it then you're maintenance is is shit. If it's barely leaking at all it'll take a long time to leak enough enough fluid to do damage. 

Edited by Squid_Racer
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