300 evo

Wow this one is a handful.

It pulls a wheelie in any gear with a turn of the wrist. I may need to retard the throttle somehow. I call it 'Evil Evo'.

The first trials bike I ever bought a rear fender for was one of those bikes!!!!  :lol:

 

Actually, the first modern trials bike I ever looped while doing a wheelie was one of those. Didn't actually break a fender though, to Beta's credit........

 

May wanna see if S3 makes a flywheel weight for it, Sabor-T.  :thumbsup:  And then there's always the slow throttle tube from Domino......   :cool:

 

Jimmie

Edited by Mr. Neutron

The throttle tube may be in my future Jimmie. I'll ride again tomorrow keeping in mind the basics. Finger on clutch and brake, foot covering rear brake. Light touch on bars.

 I have put the brake lever under the throttle, resulting in the throttle being able to turn more with little wrist movement. I may move them back and roll the tube down so I can bend my wrist more without going full throttle. I know my wrist should be in line with my arms so maybe this will help. 

I just got a 300 gg txt last summer thinking it would be nice to have a little more power but now that im riding events more and more I hate it. I thought since ive been riding bikes my whole life I could handle it but the truth is I cant when it counts.

 

I would recommend a slow throttle tube and a compression gasket. I just ordered these parts for my gg last weak off lewisport, so I haven't put them in yet to feel the difference but everyone I talked to in my trials club said that the gasket and throttle tube will make a more noticeable difference then a flywheel weight. ill let you know how I like my 300 after I put the parts in.

 

in summer I like the extra power and pull of the 300, but when its wet, slick and snowing out (my last event we had 2 inches of snow) the 300 is hard to handle, lots of wheel spin and sliding backwards.......oops.

 

ill let you know how my 300 set up goes.

 

 

-Brady

I just got a 300 gg txt last summer thinking it would be nice to have a little more power but now that im riding events more and more I hate it. I thought since ive been riding bikes my whole life I could handle it but the truth is I cant when it counts.

 

I would recommend a slow throttle tube and a compression gasket. I just ordered these parts for my gg last weak off lewisport, so I haven't put them in yet to feel the difference but everyone I talked to in my trials club said that the gasket and throttle tube will make a more noticeable difference then a flywheel weight. ill let you know how I like my 300 after I put the parts in.

 

in summer I like the extra power and pull of the 300, but when its wet, slick and snowing out (my last event we had 2 inches of snow) the 300 is hard to handle, lots of wheel spin and sliding backwards.......oops.

 

ill let you know how my 300 set up goes.

 

 

-Brady

 

I'm kinda in the same boat. I installed the long range seat today and had a much better experience, but this baby still pulls like hell. Higher gears helped keep it in check. But as you mentioned, the ground is not dry enough yet to really get on it. I'm starting to like the thrill of death.

My buddy that owned the 300 I looped out recommended a 250 for me, be it Gas Gas, Beta, Sherco, or whatever. He does say that with newer Gas Gassers, the 300s are easier to ride than my 280. But the 250s are supposedly even easier to ride, he says. I dunno..... I just know that I really like my "dumbed down" 280. I've got the flywheel weight on it, and the S3 low-compression head. The head was put on to save my knee I had replaced (for easier starting), but does have the benefits of mellowing out the power, and not needing any race gas to keep it from pinging.

 

I can't run the slow throttle. :cry:  Broke my wrist when I was 20 yrs. old (it's actually still broken/never healed) and don't have the flexibility i need to get along with a slow throttle tube. That is one "drawback" of the slow throttle tube. When you need a handfull/wide open throttle (how often does that really happen in an event?), your wrist really has to rotate a lot to get it. This is more of a detriment when play riding with my friends, riding between sections, or at hillclimb sections we do sometimes, rather than most sections.....

 

Jimmie

 

Sorry to go off topic here, but where did you ride a Trial at, Brady? We've got one coming up this Sunday at Dallesport that should be quite bit dryer, hee hee.......

Edited by Mr. Neutron

The roller throttle and high compressin gasket are both installed on this bike, so thats a couple of strikes against a begginer. I want to leave it all 'as is' if I can.

I'm practising my balance and turns. Turning has the greatest risk of grabbing too much gas right now. My flight instructor says I'm very smooth with the controls of the Piper and Cessna we fly, so I'm trying to translate that same calmness to the throttle and bars on the Evo. I think things will fall into place with more seat time.

The throttle tube may be in my future Jimmie. I'll ride again tomorrow keeping in mind the basics. Finger on clutch and brake, foot covering rear brake. Light touch on bars.

 I have put the brake lever under the throttle, resulting in the throttle being able to turn more with little wrist movement. I may move them back and roll the tube down so I can bend my wrist more without going full throttle. I know my wrist should be in line with my arms so maybe this will help. 

I never understood the idea of moving the throttle housing to change the way the throttle works? My thoughts are its round, no matter where the housing is rotated its going to open the throttle the same amount? maybe I'm missing something? The slow turn works cause it takes more turn to open the slide up to give it more gas. With some guys it helps cause it don't open up as quick with twitching and body movements allowing the tire to break loose. I myself don't like the slow turn for general trail riding, I do like it for trials events. Events I've been in I don't think I ever gave my bike more then a 1/4 throttle, and if I did I was getting out of shape and messing up. Riding to the next section is a different story. 

I never understood the idea of moving the throttle housing to change the way the throttle works? My thoughts are its round, no matter where the housing is rotated its going to open the throttle the same amount? maybe I'm missing something? The slow turn works cause it takes more turn to open the slide up to give it more gas. With some guys it helps cause it don't open up as quick with twitching and body movements allowing the tire to break loose. I myself don't like the slow turn for general trail riding, I do like it for trials events. Events I've been in I don't think I ever gave my bike more then a 1/4 throttle, and if I did I was getting out of shape and messing up. Riding to the next section is a different story. 

 

Rotating the tube towards you makes the wrist bend more to apply a lot of throttle. 

It's a geometry thing, Mike.  :prof:  You have the need of creating linear motion (lifting of the slide) from circular motion (rotation of the throttle tube). Imagine the point of the very centerline of the handlebars. A throttle tube rotates around that point. If you decrease the radius from the centerline to the point where the throttle cable becomes tangent with the throttle tube. it will take more degrees of rotation of the  throttle tube to lift the slide. For a given amount of degrees of rotation of the "slow tube"  versus the "normal tube", this makes the throttle slide lift less & slower, and gives the perception of "things happening a little slower". It will take more degrees of rotation of the throttle tube to accompish lifting the slide a given amount.

 

Increasing the radius from the centerline of the bars, given the amount the throttle housing will allow, will make the throttle take fewer degrees of rotation to achieve various throttle openings or full throttle. the throttle will open faster, and with fewer degrees of rotation. We used to call these a "quick throttle" back in the '70s..... :ride:

 

I should say that this is all true of constant radius throttle cam shapes. If it gets cam shaped, or constantly increasing radius, or constantly decreasing radius in form, it will vary how much rotation of the throttle tube it will take to achieve a given amount of throttle slide lift. :confused:

 

Hope this helps some. I normally have a tough time giving verbals of this stuff, but I use it fairly often at my job, and actually do understand it somewhat......

 

Sabortooth, I don't have this Trials thing down well at all. But everything I've seen in real life, in videos, and read about, points to using as little throttle as possible (like Mike mentioned), and being smooth with it (as well as being smoothe with the brakes & clutch, also....). I think your analogy of smoothness and flying is a good one, and think you're on the right track.

 

Jimmie

Edited by Mr. Neutron

Well all hell broke loose today and the bike is in pieces. Waited till late afternoon to ride. Put the kicker at tdc, tried to kick and it didn't budge. Put it in gear and rocked the bike. Started fine, turned off the choke and let idle, then a clanking sound came from the bottom end. I shut the motor down.  Thought about it for a moment and realized the motor was running when I shut it down so it was not seized. Tried to start it again and the kicker would not engage.

I pulled the head and everything is good. Very clean with oil on the head and all, spark plug looked maybe a little rich. Then I pulled the clutch cover and everything looked good, not backed out bolts or anything. Then I pulled the side cover off and actuated the kicker. Both visable gears looked fine and moved with the kicker. Removed the clutch plates to get the basket off. Had to stop there till I find a way to get the clutch nut off to see whats behind the basket where I believe the problem resides. Man I was ready to ride today.

Sounds like possibly your idler gear (behind the clutch basket) and/or the kicker gear have gone gunnybags (possibly chipped teeth). This happened to my Gas Gas, but surprises me about it doing it on your Beta. A friend of mine swears up and down the Betas & Shercos have way better designed (stronger) kickstart mechanisms than my Gasser. I hope you get it fixed cheaply & quickly, Sabor-T.

 

Jimmie

Sounds like possibly your idler gear (behind the clutch basket) and/or the kicker gear have gone gunnybags (possibly chipped teeth). This happened to my Gas Gas, but surprises me about it doing it on your Beta. A friend of mine swears up and down the Betas & Shercos have way better designed (stronger) kickstart mechanisms than my Gasser. I hope you get it fixed cheaply & quickly, Sabor-T.

 

Jimmie

 

Thanks Jimmie.

Stu is on it, I just need to identify the parts needed.

Got any tricks to hold the basket in place while loosening the nut?  Rich

Stu at Jack's Cycles? You're in good hands then..... :thumbsup:

 

In the past, I've used all sorts of crazy stuff to wedge in between the primary gears to be able to loosen these goofy nuts. I've gotten lucky once or twice, and wadded up a shop rag in the gear teeth, and broken a nut loose. ;)  And then I can recall once, on some bike long ago, just spinning that rag right on through...... repeatedly..... as I tried to loosen that nut.....  :cry: I've used a penny, and I've used a wedge-shaped piece of aluminum to keep the gears from spinning while I loosened up the nut. You want something softer than the gears, but firm enough and of the right size to keep the basket from spinning.....

 

I've never been into a Beta trials bike clutch, so I don't know if any of this is even relevant, Rich. I was never "affluent" enough to own an air compressor until recently. Still don't own any air tools, but I'm told that an air wrench/socket combo is the best way to bust that nut loose. You have any friends at a bike shop somewhere? I do own one of those Vise Grip tools that is used for this type of thing (from Motion Pro?) now, and it worked well on my KTM 300 & my YZ 450F. Don't know if it will work on yours, but if we wanna ship it to ya, I'm good with that.....

 

That's about all I can think of for now, Sabor-T..... :thinking:

 

Jimmie

Edited by Mr. Neutron

It's a geometry thing, Mike.  :prof:  You have the need of creating linear motion (lifting of the slide) from circular motion (rotation of the throttle tube). Imagine the point of the very centerline of the handlebars. A throttle tube rotates around that point. If you decrease the radius from the centerline to the point where the throttle cable becomes tangent with the throttle tube. it will take more degrees of rotation of the  throttle tube to lift the slide. For a given amount of degrees of rotation of the "slow tube"  versus the "normal tube", this makes the throttle slide lift less & slower, and gives the perception of "things happening a little slower". It will take more degrees of rotation of the throttle tube to accompish lifting the slide a given amount.

 

Increasing the radius from the centerline of the bars, given the amount the throttle housing will allow, will make the throttle take fewer degrees of rotation to achieve various throttle openings or full throttle. the throttle will open faster, and with fewer degrees of rotation. We used to call these a "quick throttle" back in the '70s..... :ride:

 

I should say that this is all true of constant radius throttle cam shapes. If it gets cam shaped, or constantly increasing radius, or constantly decreasing radius in form, it will vary how much rotation of the throttle tube it will take to achieve a given amount of throttle slide lift. :confused:

 

Hope this helps some. I normally have a tough time giving verbals of this stuff, but I use it fairly often at my job, and actually do understand it somewhat......

 

Sabortooth, I don't have this Trials thing down well at all. But everything I've seen in real life, in videos, and read about, points to using as little throttle as possible (like Mike mentioned), and being smooth with it (as well as being smoothe with the brakes & clutch, also....). I think your analogy of smoothness and flying is a good one, and think you're on the right track.

 

Jimmie

I'm not sure were talking about the same thing here? I get the difference in radius size of the tube with the slow turn, and the regular throttle tube. Its just like changing a rear sprocket. More teeth, more torque pulling out, slower top speed. Smaller rear sprocket, more top speed, less power pulling out. I still don't think that rotating the throttle housing forward or backwards changes how much the slide goes up or down. Sure the tube size with the slow turn and the quick changes the amount of lift, I get that. Just rotating the housing forward or back, I still don't get it. 

 

Rotating the tube towards you makes the wrist bend more to apply a lot of throttle. 

If the size of the throttle radius doesn't change, then turning the housing either way does not make it open any faster or slower. you will still grip the grip on the throttle tube in about the same spot turning it about the same way, no difference in how fast the slide comes up. 

   I'm not trying to be uncool at all, I'm just pretty sure that rotating the housing doesn't do anything but move the location were the cable is routed. 

If the size of the throttle radius doesn't change, then turning the housing either way does not make it open any faster or slower. you will still grip the grip on the throttle tube in about the same spot turning it about the same way, no difference in how fast the slide comes up. 

   I'm not trying to be uncool at all, I'm just pretty sure that rotating the housing doesn't do anything but move the location were the cable is routed. 

 

 

 

Mike,

 

think about your own wrist. when your standing up on your bike your wrist can only roll the throttle back so far.... moving the throttle cable forward and backward lets your wrist roll on more power or less power....I think that's what is trying to be said here. and if not im just as confessed as you.

Nope sorry, not going to buy it! LOl. I looked at my bike, I turned the throttle, letting the grip snap back like we all like to do. I loosened up the screws turned the housing , tightened it up and tried it again. Nope didn't change anything. I have a pumper carb on my bike and the pulley that the cable goes to to pump out the fuel is right there, you can see it. Turning the throttle turns the pulley. Moved the housing around and watched the pulley.  No difference. If there is no change in the size of the tub were the cable sits, then turning does nothing. You end up changing the spot were you grab the grip, but in the end the stop on the throttle tube, and the slide coming up to the top of the carb are hitting at the same time. If it made it open slower or faster you would have to readjust the free play in the cable too. I'm really hoping no one thinks I'm being an ass, I just don't believe that it does anything. My throttle turns like a 1/4 way around, like say 12:00 to 3:00. rotate the housing as far as you like either way. It will still only turn the same amount, it can't change.  

Nope sorry, not going to buy it! LOl. I looked at my bike, I turned the throttle, letting the grip snap back like we all like to do. I loosened up the screws turned the housing , tightened it up and tried it again. Nope didn't change anything. I have a pumper carb on my bike and the pulley that the cable goes to to pump out the fuel is right there, you can see it. Turning the throttle turns the pulley. Moved the housing around and watched the pulley.  No difference. If there is no change in the size of the tub were the cable sits, then turning does nothing. You end up changing the spot were you grab the grip, but in the end the stop on the throttle tube, and the slide coming up to the top of the carb are hitting at the same time. If it made it open slower or faster you would have to readjust the free play in the cable too. I'm really hoping no one thinks I'm being an ass, I just don't believe that it does anything. My throttle turns like a 1/4 way around, like say 12:00 to 3:00. rotate the housing as far as you like either way. It will still only turn the same amount, it can't change.  

 

You are correct that the throttle will perform the same. But if the start point is closer to the 3oclock position and your hand starts at 12oclock your wrist will have to bend more to go fron 3 to 6oclock.

I'm not sure were talking about the same thing here? I get the difference in radius size of the tube with the slow turn, and the regular throttle tube. Its just like changing a rear sprocket. More teeth, more torque pulling out, slower top speed. Smaller rear sprocket, more top speed, less power pulling out. I still don't think that rotating the throttle housing forward or backwards changes how much the slide goes up or down. Sure the tube size with the slow turn and the quick changes the amount of lift, I get that. Just rotating the housing forward or back, I still don't get it. 

 

If the size of the throttle radius doesn't change, then turning the housing either way does not make it open any faster or slower. you will still grip the grip on the throttle tube in about the same spot turning it about the same way, no difference in how fast the slide comes up. 

   I'm not trying to be uncool at all, I'm just pretty sure that rotating the housing doesn't do anything but move the location were the cable is routed. 

Mike,

 

You are correct. Rotating the throttle housing changes nothing, because the tube rotates with it. I had to go back & read Rich's posts to find that, and like you, I'm a little confused as well. And somewhat embarrassed. I thought this was all about the different diameter tubes and their relationship to how slowly or quickly they open a slide. sorry for the confusion...... The only reason that I've ever rotated a housing was to route the cable so brush would be less likely to snag it.....

 

Jimmie

Mike, you were not 'uncool' at all and I appreciate your persistance on the matter. It took a while but I see what you said is right and I stand corrected. I didn't come up with this 'fix' but believed it to be true. Thanks for analyzing this out.

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