Help! Cam timing!

So here I am with the new cams in and they don't line up at all like the picture hot cams provides... seems like 14 pins looks much better (3 dots pretty much all visible on both sprockets) but they say to go to 15. See pictures below at 14 and 15. Any help appreciated!

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Is TDC mark aligned correctly on the crank?

 

It also appears that you do not have the timing chain adjusted (it appears to still be loose).

 

I always set the timing, adjust the chain with some tension, roll the motor over and check it again. If it's good, I'll back the tensioner off, adjust it to just touching, then go through the adjustment with the motor running.

 

I really can't make anything out of your pictures, even the top dots are tough to make out..

TDC line is directly in the center of the hole (not the T) chain tensioner is backed off in the pictures as I was switching the cams from 14 pins to 15 pins. The dots line up almost perfectly at 14 pins with the chain tensioned. Sorry about the pictures. Very poor lighting in the garage.. I didn't want to rotate the engine with the cam caps off and didn't want to put them back on until I have the timing set correctly. Would rolling it over once be alright to do without cam caps on?

I guess my real question is what is more important? That the cams be set at 15 pins or that the dots line up with the side of the head and point straight up? Will having the timing off 1 pin cause damage? As long as the valve clearances are in spec, at one pin off is there risk of valve/ piston collision?

Here is a better picture at 14 pins. Put the caps back on, tightened the cct and turned it over. All clearances in spec and the same as with the original cams.

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That picture is much better. Looks to me 15 pins would line up better anways.

 

15 pins is correct, not 14.

 

The first time I adjusted my valves I actually had everything one tooth off, so that is why I roll the motor over once and check it again.

Please keep in mind Hot Cams has changed the procedure to time Hot Cams 3 times. Franky I have lost track of the latest procedure for the Hot Cams with no adjustable sprockets.  Go to the Hot Cams web site and use the procedure for your Part Number cams. (or what came with your Hot Cams)  I kind of remember something about the pin count is different.  15 pins is for Suzuki cams not sure if Hot Cams use 14 or what???

Please keep in mind Hot Cams has changed the procedure to time Hot Cams 3 times. Franky I have lost track of the latest procedure for the Hot Cams with no adjustable sprockets.  Go to the Hot Cams web site and use the procedure for your Part Number cams. (or what came with your Hot Cams)  I kind of remember something about the pin count is different.  15 pins is for Suzuki cams not sure if Hot Cams use 14 or what???

 

Wondeful... That makes so much sense to make it completely different from the factory 15 pins. Good thing I'm seeing this now, as I ordered my Hot Cams yesterday.

Please keep in mind Hot Cams has changed the procedure to time Hot Cams 3 times. Franky I have lost track of the latest procedure for the Hot Cams with no adjustable sprockets. Go to the Hot Cams web site and use the procedure for your Part Number cams. (or what came with your Hot Cams) I kind of remember something about the pin count is different. 15 pins is for Suzuki cams not sure if Hot Cams use 14 or what???

I can't find the procedure at all on the hot cams website.. all I got with the cams is this little piece of paper that shows counting the pins.

Here is another picture of the dots showing a little better how they are lined up with the head. This is after putting tension on the chain and rotating the engine once.

Moving one tooth back on the intake to make it match up with the little picture from hot cams makes the alignment with the top of the head visibly off compared to at 14 tooth... anyone else have experience with these newer generation stage 2 cams? I have 2252-2E and 2251-2IN....

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How old is your cam chain, an older/stretched chain would give a similar result as you have with 14 pins.

How old is your cam chain, an older/stretched chain would give a similar result as you have with 14 pins.

Bike has just under 6000. At around 3500 is when the mcct was installed so I shouldn't think the cam chain is stretched with that little use?

That's kilometers as well not miles.

The way I see it, you have 3 choices, 1, run it at 14 pins and see how it goes, 2, change it to 15 pins and see how it goes, 3, replace the cam chain and find the same problem you have now.

I believe that cam position is more important than pin count, so if your sure that 14 pins gives you the best result, I would go with 14 pins.

If it runs fine, in a 1000 miles, rip the top off, check your valve clearances and check your cams again.

Sounds like a plan to me. Thanks for the input.

Suzuki cams there is no need to count pins.  Just line up the marks IN and EX.  When everything is right, the pin count will be 15.  Hot Cams FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE that came with the cams.  Do not pay any attention to the marks other than for pin count.  The marks do not reference to anything else.  Confusing I know since people are use to Suzuki way of doing things.

 

Post a clear picture of the Hot Cams instal instructions. That will clarify things.

 

Suzuki cams there is no need to count pins.  Just line up the marks IN and EX.  When everything is right, the pin count will be 15.  Hot Cams FOLLOW THE PROCEDURE that came with the cams.  Do not pay any attention to the marks other than for pin count.  The marks do not reference to anything else.  Confusing I know since people are use to Suzuki way of doing things.

 

Post a clear picture of the Hot Cams instal instructions. That will clarify things.

Going by that advice Noble and the diagram/instructions the OP put up in post #9, he would need to rotate the inlet cam back one tooth giving him a 15 pin count.

His cams would then match the supplied diagram.

Edited by Black_DRZ

Going by that advice Noble and the diagram/instructions the OP put up in post #9, he would need to rotate the inlet cam back one tooth giving him a 15 pin count.

His cams would then match the supplied diagram.

Yeah... I think your right... well at least everything is still apart. Back at it tomorrow. Off topic question. Anyone know right off what size the nut holding the front sprocket is? Need to borrow that one from work tomorrow so I can go on with the locktite fixes.

Thanks again everybody!

By front sprocket you mean Countershaft sprocket?  1 1/16" (27mm)

I'm obviously confused. But never the less my advise is correct. Follow Hot Cams install instructions.  Sorry, I over looked that a picture of the instructions was already posted. Pretty clear it is 15 pins.  To be more accurate than that requires a degree wheel and dial indicator to "degree" the cams.  Hot Cams does provide lobe center specifications for accurate checking.

By front sprocket you mean Countershaft sprocket? 1 1/16" (27mm)

That's what I thought as well but mine is larger than 1 1/16. I did a quick search and found it is actually a 30mm nut. Luckily we have large metric tools here at work. Tonight I will rotate the inlet cam one tooth to make it 15 pins.

Thanks everyone.

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