Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  

My quest to tame the heated beast (450XCF)

Recommended Posts

I've posted a few posts related to my 2009 450 XCF which I use for everything from desert to single track and mountain exploration. Previous to this bike I had a CRF450X that was well tricked out. Which I never had problems with it overheating. Fast forward this week and I take my 450xcf out on the same trails I used to take my 450X, albeit now it's sporting a black 3.2 gallon IMS tank. And wouldn't you know it the thing is getting super hot on anything other than fast double track. Meaning...the single track and slow, uphill double track gnarly climbs it did not like! My Trail Tech temp sensor was showing between 230-260 degrees. Not only that but it was making the gas get hot enough to boil and hydro lock.

 

I run Evans waterless coolant and a higher pressure rad cap. Otherwise the thing would have boiled over for sure. I also installed a rad catch can just in case but haven't had the high pressure cap blow enough to need it. Either way I got her home without destroying the engine and realized I have to do something about the heat. So in this thread I'll detail what I'm doing and what the results are. 

 

 

1. I have ordered the water pump spacer and impeller kit. 

 

2. I have ordered a handlebar mounted manual fan switch to control a slim line 1" spal type fan. 

 

3. I have ordered and now installed reflective tape specifically for high heat applications. Supposedly will reflect 90% of radiant heat and can withstand 500 degrees of direct temp. 

20140417_223528_zps72e0a365.jpg

20140417_223512_zps891fa908.jpg

 

As soon as I get 1 and 2 installed I'll post pics and then give a brief on how the temps did after these changes. If nothing changes my next step will be larger radiators. And if nothing from that....another fan on the left-side radiator with a larger stator. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Where did you get that reflective tape?

I bought a cv4 heat sheild for my tank, buts its a mess. The heatsheild is nice, but you install to tank with velcro.

Sticky side of velcro doesnt stick to tank, no matter how clean.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

4.25 inches inboard the bulge of the tank descends to 1" from the radiator. Not much room to mount a Trail Tech or larger KTM style fan. 

 

20140415_171022_zps1c2810f2.jpg

 

20140415_170954_zps5ae08271.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

So I'm going with this generic fan kit you can buy on fleaby. It's a 1" tall fan. Doesn't pull as much air as the bigger fans but then again I needed something small and thin that wouldn't tax my stock XCF stator. 

 

Barely enough room. If I eventually do the bigger radiators I may have to do a little heating and reshaping to that front tank bulge. 

20140416_134934_zps55ebd9d5.jpg

 

 

 

Here's the tape I used. Sticks very well and molds easily onto curves and such. I ordered mine from fleabay. 

http://www.tpxpowersource.com/heatshield-products-c-55/tapes-and-tie-straps-c-55_58/heatshield-products-thermaflect-tape-4-inch-by-10-ft-p-661.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks,

On your radiators, these cheap ebay ones are nice cooling wise. The chinese could learn a few with tig welding, but they do work better than oem.

Overall size is same as your oe, but each row is longer by roughly 1/8"- 1/4", and has i think 10 rows per core, vs 8 for the oe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPI-aluminum-alloy-radiator-KTM-250-450-505-SX-F-SXF-2007-2008-2009-2010-/281083500326?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4171e1d726

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks,

On your radiators, these cheap ebay ones are nice cooling wise. The chinese could learn a few with tig welding, but they do work better than oem.

Overall size is same as your oe, but each row is longer by roughly 1/8"- 1/4", and has i think 10 rows per core, vs 8 for the oe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/GPI-aluminum-alloy-radiator-KTM-250-450-505-SX-F-SXF-2007-2008-2009-2010-/281083500326?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item4171e1d726

 

 

Thanks. I would really like to find these with the bung for the temp sensor. Let me know if you find any oversized ones that have that sensor bung. 

 

They are very similar to these two. I wonder if the specs are all the same? Obviously I want the one with the best cooling abilities. 

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251184966178?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150767934880?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Edited by mikesbaron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I also own a 09 KTM 450 XCF and I ride technical single track all the time and have no over heating problems.  A few things to check:

What jetting are you running (stock jetting is lean can cause your motor to run hot).  I'm running a JD jet kit

Did you "burp" your coolant system when you changed the coolant to get all the air out? 

Check the rubber boots in front and in the back of your carb for an air leaks (air leaks cause a lean cond. and your motor runs hot) 

Have you replaced your thermostat?

Have you checked all your coolant hoses to make sure they are not kinked or pinched?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Got it mounted up. 

 

20140420_113334_zpscd1dfcfc.jpg

20140420_113322_zpsbe684407.jpg

 

 

 

 

Wiring going to the handlebar switch and back to the battery. 

20140420_113339_zps50d60a7d.jpg

 

Power leads going through a hole cut in the front of the airbox. Leads directly to battery. Hose is radiator overflow tube also tucked in neatly and run through front of airbox to coolant container under left side panel. 

20140420_113347_zps5f1c32eb.jpg

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe these

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-R-Aluminum-radiator-KTM-250-450-530-EXC-EXC-F-EXCF-2008-2009-2011-10-08-09-11-/251494003026?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3a8e35f152

There are maybe 3 different chinese making radiators. Gpi are best of them.

You migh feel un american buying them, but at 100 bucks they are worth it.

Just clean out/ rinse, etc before you mount,

On burping coolant, on these bikes i usually will lean bike on stand toward left when i fill. Or opposite cap. Back and forth a few times will usually do the trick.

You might also look into this

http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-flow-water-pump-kit-2009-2011-KTM-SXF-450-SX-F-2010-volume-upgrade-kit-/190926256687?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c74177a2f&vxp=mtr

It is a much nicer impeller than oem. This kit is made by mino.

Easy to install as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yes the radiators are on my list. I've already got the pump spacer kit on order. 

 

Your method for burping the coolant is about what I do. I shake it around, then let it run with the cap off for a few minutes, two different times. Letting the air burp and shaking back and forth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you post a link to that Fan you bought? Also have you had any problems keeping your battery charged with the fan running?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've not had a chance to run it with the fan yet. Still waiting on water pump spacer. The fan supposedly only uses .19 amps. I'm not expecting a drain problem. 

 

They have a bevy of fan kits. They told me it pulls 90 cfm at only .19 amp draw and is a ball bearing fan.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/motoboyznv/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

Edited by mikesbaron

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On some newer KTMs they with a air bleeder bolt on top of the radiator.  Unfortunately our 09 radiators didn't come with the coolant radiator bleeder bolt or the cylinder bleeder.  After filling my 450 radiator with fresh coolant, I run the engine with the radiator cap off, refill if necessary.  I then reinstall the radiator cap and run the engine for a couple of minutes, let it cool and check the coolant level again and refill if necessary.

 

I also own an 07 KTM 950 Super Enduro and whenever you change the coolant your have to "burp" the coolant system to get rid of the trapped air in the coolant.  If the air is not purged from the coolant system, the 950 will run hot.  When I "burp" my 950, I raise the front wheel about a foot off the ground, engine off, remove the radiator cap and then start squeezing 8-10 times the out going and return rubber coolant hoses to the radiator.  Squeezing the hoses should release any trapped air in the coolant.   Check your coolant level again.  I suggested "burping" because of your overheating problem.     

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Im betting its that big fuel tank changing the airflow through the rads. I ride an 09 450sxf in brutal terrain and singletrack and only have heating problems when stalling on rocky hills. Id be taking that big tank off and trying before id sink mint into trying to keep it cool. Those 450s are pretty fuel efficient beasts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm pretty sure the tank has the most to do with it overheating. And the XCF isn't exactly designed for uphill, rocky western U.S. single track. But I've been transforming it into my do it all bike just like my previous CRF450X. My short rides are 60 miles long. My average rides are 80-100 miles long. The stock tank won't cut it.

 

Despite it's overheating on uphill single track, this bike is lighter, funner to ride, faster than the X. Unfortunately it has crappy cooling abilities, thanks to KTM's stupid radiator shroud design. If I can get the overheating in single track problem fixed it'll be sweet. Some of the items I've added and it already had to make it a better all arounder than the CRFX: 

 

G2 Throttle Tamer

Flexx Bars

GPR Stabilizer

Wider Footpegs

Seat Concepts Seat

Wrap Around Handguards

IMS 3.2 gallon tank

Trail Tech Endurance Computer

Extensively Modified Skidplate

 

The last thing I'll probably do is vent the front fender so it'll flow a little more air. 

 

107_zpscc3e5437.jpg

1208495_10151707852299150_870301355_n_zp

Now: dual cooling fans and Water Pump Impeller and Spacer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I was reading through old dirt bike magazines last night I came across some 2009-2010 pics of Kurt Caselli and Mike Brown's 450 SXF/XCF race bikes. And noticed this that they were both running Cycra Powerflow radiator shrouds. Hmmmm.....seems like KTM knew already their bikes had heat issues, even high speed race bikes. No wonder they changed their radiator shroud designs to flow more air. 

 

http://www.amazon.com/2007-Powerflow-Intake-Radiator-Shrouds/dp/B006570R78

 

 

 

 
 

shroud.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guess all of the Jap bikes have heat issues, since every Cycra sponsored team uses the Powerflow shrouds...

 

Cycra has been the plastic supplier for KTM USA off-road for years, thus the Powerflow shrouds.  You did not find these on any of the KTM factory off-road bikes in the rest of the world, because Cycra did not sponsor them.  Imagine that: a sponsor getting their product on a bike to push sales.

 

Don't blame the shrouds.  It is the IMS tank that blocks off airflow behind your radiators that is your main culprit, and has minimal to do with the shroud design.  I have noticed no difference in using the Cycra shrouds at all, it is a placebo more than anything.  Just more stuff to break when I hit a tree or lay it over in rocks.  You don't have to be an engineer to see that the simple fact is that the small vortex design created by those shrouds can't do squat with the turbulent air that results from the front fender, number plate, forks, and front tire at speed, and the design is even more useless if you are going slow.

 

The Powerflow rear fender is also a great product to get your air filter dirty a heck of a lot faster.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Reply with:

Sign in to follow this  

×