Unable to Start 1993 Honda XR650L

[michael.wallace]

Hello,

 

just looking for some help and advice.

 

My bike quit on me on the freeway yesterday while going up the same 1 1/2 mile valley of a hill headed to my town where I live.  It gradually started lossing power and normally I can pull this hill in 5th gear at 85 mph but yesterday it booged down and I went from 80 to 60 then had to keep downshifting and the engine made some rattling sounds then my speed just died off to nothing then it came to a dead stop and engine died.  Tried to start with starter and not even a hint that it wanted to fire.  Tried to push start and again the engine made similar knocking/rattling sounds as before it died completely.  Seemed like no compression at all like I blew the engine but I have always heard that once an engine blows, there is all kinds of oil out the exhaust pipe.  My exhaust was dry and normal. 

 

This morning just for checking I checked my oil and the oil would not even register on the dip stick.  Yes I know this is a dry sump engine and you are supposed to check the oil level when the engine is hot but even while engine is cold one should still get some kind of oil readind on the dipstick.  Last time I checked the oil was 5 days ago and I topped it off at the top of the dipstick upper limit.  Typically if if ride 100 miles, I will usually need to put a 1/4 of a quart of oil in it to put it back at the upper mark.

 

The Bike has 25,300 miles on it and I am the third owner of it and it was in imaculate shape when I bought it and I have maintained it in that shape the whole 14 years I have owned it.

 

I am upset because I have always heard of all the stories of old 1970s model Goldwings and how some are still running with 400,000 miles on them and yes I know dirt bikes get riden harder but I would expect to get 100,000 miles out of this bike at least before I felt it was needing an overhaul.

 

Is there anybody that may have any ideas about what may have happened to my bike or is my assumptions correct in that the engine did blow up?

Thank you for your help and advice

 

Michael R. Wallace

[bradrup]

It doesn't sound good. First you need to check you valves to see if they are set right. Then change the oil and see how much you have in the bike by draining it. If the valves are set right and you are low on oil. It sounds like your camshaft is toast for lack of oil.

[Zimman]

100,000 miles on a single cylinder as an expectation seems a little optimistic to Me?

 

anyway the lack of oil in the upper reservoir would be my concern

 

sounds like a lubrication system failure and then the resulting aftermath  

Edited April 20, 2014 by Zimman

[brianhare]

100,000 miles?  ?

 

umm...no..not happening,these bikes usually need a refresh on the top end at about 25-30k....sometimes less...

 

How you figure riding these bikes at 85 freekin mph ..which is wide open on these bikes,,and it lasting any decent miles is beyond me...

 

You just roached the top end by running it low on oil...get the wrenches out...

 

400,000 MILES on a road bike with 6...yes that`s correct  6   cylinders may be possible........not on an air cooled 1 cylinder...

 

 

 

B

Edited April 20, 2014 by brianhare

[michael.wallace]

100,000 miles on a single cylinder as an expectation seems a little optimistic to Me?

 

anyway the lack of oil in the upper reservoir would be my concern

 

sounds like a lubrication system failure and then the resulting aftermath  

 

100,000 miles?  ?

 

umm...no..not happening,these bikes usually need a refresh on the top end at about 25-30k....sometimes less...

 

How you figure riding these bikes at 85 freekin mph ..which is wide open on these bikes,,and it lasting any decent miles is beyond me...

 

You just roached the top end by running it low on oil...get the wrenches out...

 

400,000 MILES on a road bike with 6...yes that`s correct  6   cylinders may be possible........not on an air cooled 1 cylinder...

 

 

 

 

Yeah you are probably right.  Probably time for an overhaul anyway.  I've had 250 and 350 XT Yamaha's though and drove them pretty hard and in the rocky mountains no less and do not ever remember them using this much oil and I have babied the crap out of this bike and at 80 to 85 it was not wide open.  A friend of mine from Hutchinson KS., the president of Four Stroke Singles Club (FSSNOC) had a KLR 650 and put almost 75,000 on it before he traded it.  I know that is a water cooled bike but still single cylinder.  

 

The first Gold Wings in the 70s were 4 cylinders.  I don't think they went to 6 cylinders until the late 90s but I see you point.  Is there any other make you would recommend over the Honda XR650L that is less trouble?  Thank you for your comments.

[brianhare]

The KLR is going to get more miles as they are water cooled,the BMW 650 engine gets lots of miles,water cooled too..the highest mileage i`ve seen on these bikes is 50,000....but riden easy with plenty of oil changes..80-85 mph is about as close as you can get to full throttle on these bikes......and they run hot at those speeds,put an oil cooler on it and you`d see less oil consumption for sure..

 

B

[michael.wallace]

100,000 miles?  ?

 

umm...no..not happening,these bikes usually need a refresh on the top end at about 25-30k....sometimes less...

 

How you figure riding these bikes at 85 freekin mph ..which is wide open on these bikes,,and it lasting any decent miles is beyond me...

 

You just roached the top end by running it low on oil...get the wrenches out...

 

400,000 MILES on a road bike with 6...yes that`s correct  6   cylinders may be possible........not on an air cooled 1 cylinder...

 

 

 

B

Just one more question, do most guys bother to rebuild the engin or just buy a replacement engine?  Might be cheaper in the long run to just get a replacment.

[michael.wallace]

It doesn't sound good. First you need to check you valves to see if they are set right. Then change the oil and see how much you have in the bike by draining it. If the valves are set right and you are low on oil. It sounds like your camshaft is toast for lack of oil.

Ok thanks I only had to add about 1/4 of a quart to get it back up on the dipstick.  I have been riding enduro's since I was 14 and I this is the first time I have ever burned up an enduro motor and in all of a 15 mile ride.  First time for everything though.

[michael.wallace]

The KLR is going to get more miles as they are water cooled,the BMW 650 engine gets lots of miles,water cooled too..the highest mileage i`ve seen on these bikes is 50,000....but riden easy with plenty of oil changes..80-85 mph is about as close as you can get to full throttle on these bikes......and they run hot at those speeds,put an oil cooler on it and you`d see less oil consumption for sure..

 

B

Thanks.  I got t look it over a little more and decide on what I want o do with it.  I can definately see $$$ in what ever it is.  Might be cheaper just to sell as a parts bike or keep as one and get another.

[brianhare]

Definately cheaper to rebuild it........it is very likely an overbore and fresh piston and rings........refresh on the valves and seats and a timing chain will make it new again.......

 

A new engine is serious money....getting a rebuilt engine is a toss up,,depends on the builders experience and knowledge of these engines......

 

Start a rebuild thread here,start ripping it apart..some of us have rebuilt more engines then you can think of..?

 

B

[brianhare]

Ok thanks I only had to add about 1/4 of a quart to get it back up on the dipstick.  I have been riding enduro's since I was 14 and I this is the first time I have ever burned up an enduro motor and in all of a 15 mile ride.  First time for everything though.

 

1/4 quart isn`t low on oil on these engines.........

 

Before you start freekin out,,do a compression/leak down test to see what you have..it may not be as bad as you think..

 

B

[brianhare]

my guess..see if i`m right......running it at those speeds overheated it..and you dropped a valve seat..

 

If you do a comp test and it fails.pull the head,then post pics..

 

If you are riding these bikes hard,on the highway,you need either a big fin head,or an oil cooler,these bikes should have had an oil cooler as factory equipment...why Honda didn`t and Suzuki did is beyond me..

 

B

[michael.wallace]

Definately cheaper to rebuild it........it is very likely an overbore and fresh piston and rings........refresh on the valves and seats and a timing chain will make it new again.......

 

A new engine is serious money....getting a rebuilt engine is a toss up,,depends on the builders experience and knowledge of these engines......

 

Start a rebuild thread here,start ripping it apart..some of us have rebuilt more engines then you can think of..?

 

B

I see, wow for myself I would feel pretty intimidated trying ot rebuild.  I am actually in the Army and stationed in Germany so parts shipped here will not be too cheap.  I have ordered from Thumper Talk before an I think they don't charge for shipping but if I buy parts from here in Germany that's some serious money and loosing about $40 U.S. dollars for every $100 U.S. dollars converted to the Euro dollar.  I will let you know what I decide.  May be better to wait until I get back Stateside next year to start this.

[dochawken]

I see, wow for myself I would feel pretty intimidated trying ot rebuild. I am actually in the Army and stationed in Germany so parts shipped here will not be too cheap. I have ordered from Thumper Talk before an I think they don't charge for shipping but if I buy parts from here in Germany that's some serious money and loosing about $40 U.S. dollars for every $100 U.S. dollars converted to the Euro dollar. I will let you know what I decide. May be better to wait until I get back Stateside next year to start this.

with that exchange rate beating I would wait until you are stateside

[MCVL]

It takes 1 day to take it apart, inspect if there is any damage, do some valve lapping, put it all back together and find out that you had a foul spark plug (just my experience)  ?

If you have any workshops around that can do any engines heads, then you should probably try it out, it's not that hard actually, you will just need to watch out not to overtorque anything and put the timing marks correctly when you will be putting it back together

P.S. I've also seen a 50,000 miles XR650L without rebuilds once, it was eating oil more than a 2 stroke but was still running fine enough for the owner ?

And there are some XR650L and Dominators with more than 100,000 miles that have been rebuilt 2 times for less than 250$, the valve seat is a bit different depending on the damage and the workshop prices though

Edited April 21, 2014 by MCVL

[michael.wallace]

It takes 1 day to take it apart, inspect if there is any damage, do some valve lapping, put it all back together and find out that you had a foul spark plug (just my experience)  ?

If you have any workshops around that can do any engines heads, then you should probably try it out, it's not that hard actually, you will just need to watch out not to overtorque anything and put the timing marks correctly when you will be putting it back together

P.S. I've also seen a 50,000 miles XR650L without rebuilds once, it was eating oil more than a 2 stroke but was still running fine enough for the owner ?

And there are some XR650L and Dominators with more than 100,000 miles that have been rebuilt 2 times for less than 250$, the valve seat is a bit different depending on the damage and the workshop prices though

Thanks.  I appreciate all you guys' advice.  So right off the top of your head, if I have to do a complete rebuild including new valve seats, new over sized piston, rings, seals, and get the cylinder rebored slightly oversized and rehoned, how much money are we talking if I do nearly all of this myself?

[MCVL]

Thanks.  I appreciate all you guys' advice.  So right off the top of your head, if I have to do a complete rebuild including new valve seats, new over sized piston, rings, seals, and get the cylinder rebored slightly oversized and rehoned, how much money are we talking if I do nearly all of this myself?

 

I didn't have a chance to rebuild the L but right off the top of my head in this part of the World I'm living now it would be

Piston+rings - 142$+14$(delivery)=156$ USD

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiseco-4989M10100-Piston-Kit-Standard-Bore-101-00mm-10-5-1-Comp-/261387345073?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AXR650L&hash=item3cdbe65cb1&vxp=mtr

 

Valve seals - 13$+7$=20$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-XR650-XR650L-XR-650-L-VITON-VALVE-STEM-SEALS-/300404157548?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f17bac6c&vxp=mtr

Or any that will fit on a car parts bazaar

 

New valve seats are already in the workshop, no need to buy them separately

That cost me about 50$ last time for the XR650R for all 4 of them

 

Rebored, rehoned - also 50$ in a different workshop for a different motorcycle, they need a new piston before they start

 

I am not aware if you need a new valve and a valve guide if the seat did fall off. If the workshop in your area is proficient enough they could make fit a guide from a car, otherwise they might ask you to buy it separately or to buy the whole new set of valves and guides just in case. That would be another story, first need to determine if there is that kind of damage (1 guide ~30$, 1 valve ~35$ + delivery)

Or wait until a good price for the whole head shows up

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CYLINDER-HEAD-93-Honda-XR600R-Motor-Engine-Top-End-Valves-OEM-XR600-XR-600-R-/121167852473?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c362ab3b9&vxp=mtr 

 

So in the end it will be more dependant on the workshops prices for their job. They are quite different in different parts of the World  ?

 

I'm sure you can find a day or 2 to at least inspect what's the problem if you're planning on waiting for the whole year to do this 

It is done like every half a year on mx-bikes

Edited April 21, 2014 by MCVL

[michael.wallace]

I didn't have a chance to rebuild the L but right off the top of my head in this part of the World I'm living now it would be

Piston+rings - 142$+14$(delivery)=156$ USD

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiseco-4989M10100-Piston-Kit-Standard-Bore-101-00mm-10-5-1-Comp-/261387345073?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AXR650L&hash=item3cdbe65cb1&vxp=mtr

 

Valve seals - 13$+7$=20$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-XR650-XR650L-XR-650-L-VITON-VALVE-STEM-SEALS-/300404157548?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f17bac6c&vxp=mtr

Or any that will fit on a car parts bazaar

 

New valve seats are already in the workshop, no need to buy them separately

That cost me about 50$ last time for the XR650R for all 4 of them

 

Rebored, rehoned - also 50$ in a different workshop for a different motorcycle, they need a new piston before they start

 

I am not aware if you need a new valve and a valve guide if the seat did fall off. If the workshop in your area is proficient enough they could make fit a guide from a car, otherwise they might ask you to buy it separately or to buy the whole new set of valves and guides just in case. That would be another story, first need to determine if there is that kind of damage (1 guide ~30$, 1 valve ~35$ + delivery)

Or wait until a good price for the whole head shows up

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CYLINDER-HEAD-93-Honda-XR600R-Motor-Engine-Top-End-Valves-OEM-XR600-XR-600-R-/121167852473?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c362ab3b9&vxp=mtr 

 

So in the end it will be more dependant on the workshops prices for their job. They are quite different in different parts of the World  ?

 

I'm sure you can find a day or 2 to at least inspect what's the problem if you're planning on waiting for the whole year to do this 

It is done like every half a year on mx-bikes

Thanks for the tips.  I will definately take a look first to see how bad the damage is before I decide anything.

[brianhare]

One way to find out if the valve seat did drop..........

 

Check your valve adjustments.........if one is really loose then you are likely looking at that seat that dropped..

 

When the seat drops..the valve can`t fully close,,,thus the adjustment being way off..

 

The only other thing that would make a loose adjustment would be cam or rocker wear and that`s more gradual..not an instant loss of power and noise..

 

the reason i think it may the valve seat,,,it was hot running hard on the highway,,lost power and got noisy..

 

So........check your valve adjustments...........

 

if it needs a head.i`d go ebay and get a good used one.there is a new one on there now,,not cheap though..

 

good luck boss..

 

B

[michael.wallace]

I didn't have a chance to rebuild the L but right off the top of my head in this part of the World I'm living now it would be

Piston+rings - 142$+14$(delivery)=156$ USD

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Wiseco-4989M10100-Piston-Kit-Standard-Bore-101-00mm-10-5-1-Comp-/261387345073?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3AXR650L&hash=item3cdbe65cb1&vxp=mtr

 

Valve seals - 13$+7$=20$

http://www.ebay.com/itm/HONDA-XR650-XR650L-XR-650-L-VITON-VALVE-STEM-SEALS-/300404157548?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item45f17bac6c&vxp=mtr

Or any that will fit on a car parts bazaar

 

New valve seats are already in the workshop, no need to buy them separately

That cost me about 50$ last time for the XR650R for all 4 of them

 

Rebored, rehoned - also 50$ in a different workshop for a different motorcycle, they need a new piston before they start

 

I am not aware if you need a new valve and a valve guide if the seat did fall off. If the workshop in your area is proficient enough they could make fit a guide from a car, otherwise they might ask you to buy it separately or to buy the whole new set of valves and guides just in case. That would be another story, first need to determine if there is that kind of damage (1 guide ~30$, 1 valve ~35$ + delivery)

Or wait until a good price for the whole head shows up

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CYLINDER-HEAD-93-Honda-XR600R-Motor-Engine-Top-End-Valves-OEM-XR600-XR-600-R-/121167852473?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c362ab3b9&vxp=mtr 

 

So in the end it will be more dependant on the workshops prices for their job. They are quite different in different parts of the World  ?

 

I'm sure you can find a day or 2 to at least inspect what's the problem if you're planning on waiting for the whole year to do this 

It is done like every half a year on mx-bikes

 

Hello again,

not sure if you remember me when I talked to you last.  I am still in the Army and finallly out of Germany and not at Ft Hood, TX.  Finally got the bike back here in my shipment and I have located a mechanic to help me with the rebuild.  I have not had a chance yet to access the damage and the mechanic who specializes in these big singles claims there is nobody here in this area who would be able to do any boring or machining work on the cylinder and head.  I have asked several bike shops in town and they say the same thing.  They mostly deal with Harley stuff.  Here in the next week or so I plan to get the engine pulled from the bike and get it to the mech.  Do you have anybody you know of who I can recommend to the mech to send this jug and head off for boring and machining work?  I am very limited on time so that is why I am try to get this mech to help me.  Also do you know where I might be able to find an adequate oil cooler for this bike after it is rebuilt and before it get ran that is under $300.00.  I know of a company who builds them specifically for the XR650L but they are going for $340.00 

Hello again,

not sure if you remember me when I talked to you last.  I am still in the Army and finallly out of Germany and not at Ft Hood, TX.  Finally got the bike back here in my shipment and I have located a mechanic to help me with the rebuild.  I have not had a chance yet to access the damage and the mechanic who specializes in these big singles claims there is nobody here in this area who would be able to do any boring or machining work on the cylinder and head.  I have asked several bike shops in town and they say the same thing.  They mostly deal with Harley stuff.  Here in the next week or so I plan to get the engine pulled from the bike and get it to the mech.  Do you have anybody you know of who I can recommend to the mech to send this jug and head off for boring and machining work?  I am very limited on time so that is why I am try to get this mech to help me.  Also do you know where I might be able to find an adequate oil cooler for this bike after it is rebuilt and before it get ran that is under $300.00.  I know of a company who builds them specifically for the XR650L but they are going for $340.00