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I can't get the copper washer out... Any ideas?

Doing my first valve check, and I'm taking my time, going slowly.

Edited by JustRon

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OK, so I may not be able to remove the washer... I am not sure how to be confident I'm at TDC without locking the crank. I have the marks on the cams lined-up. But, the last time I checked valves was about 30 years ago (!), and the engine was a bit simpler, hehe.

I've read where Chris has said you don't need to be at TDC (Check intake when exhaust is opening/closing and exhaust with intake opening/closing.) But, I can't look at the valves and figure that out. Most of the valve-check advice Rotax posts is waay over my head.

 

So, I'm kinda stuck. I tried getting the feeler in the exhaust side, and it seems super tight, but since I'm not sure if I'm at TDC, I'm not going to worry about that (yet). I can barely get my feeler in on the intake side- not much room to move. But, I didn't try too hard.

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If your cam marks are aligned correctly none of the valves will be depressed on the fingers followers. They won't be facing straight up but at an angle. When you slide the feeler gage in try to slide it in parallel to the top of the head (angled gages work the best) otherwise you will get false reading of being tight. 

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If your cam marks are aligned correctly none of the valves will be depressed on the fingers followers. They won't be facing straight up but at an angle. When you slide the feeler gage in try to slide it in parallel to the top of the head (angled gages work the best) otherwise you will get false reading of being tight. 

 

When the marks are lined up... isn't that supposed to be TDC? Or, are you saying, on these bikes, you need to check the clearance by sliding the feeler in from the side (and, I already have the valves where they should be)? I'm confused.

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More then likely your at TDC. You could check piston height with a zip tie down the spark plug hole if your in question. Slide the feeler in from the front or back of the motor depending on which valve you're checking. My comment on being parallel was to make sure you weren't trying to force it in on an angle( giving a tight reading). Are you using straight or angled gages?

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I'm using straight gauges- because that's what I have. Should I buy the angled ones? I was checking the same as they show in the manual (I have it printed out).

Mine is actually a 2010- same as the manual.

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I'm using straight gauges- because that's what I have. Should I buy the angled ones? I was checking the same as they show in the manual (I have it printed out).

Mine is actually a 2010- same as the manual.

Motion Pro makes nice small angled gauges that work nicely. I just did this job on my 400RS with 750 miles. Intakes were at .002. You could try a longer bolt in the crank locking hole if you can't get the washer out.

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I'm using straight gauges- because that's what I have. Should I buy the angled ones? I was checking the same as they show in the manual (I have it printed out).

Mine is actually a 2010- same as the manual.

Sounds like you are doing it correctly. Angled ones are nice but straight can be used too. Just use your finger on the feeler gauge to help decrease the angle going in between the cam and follower. You could always bend the straight feeler gauges to get a better angle. I have straight, angled and a few hand bent sets from over the years. Some of mine have multiple bends from doing my old Mercedes Benz diesel. There fairly cheap so having multiple sets is always good.

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I think I'll buy some angled feelers, just for piece of mind. I didn't try a longer screw because the stock one is tapered, and I didn't want to mess anything up by using a regular one (I don't have any tapered screws). Maybe I'll try a longer one.

Thanks for the replies.

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I think I'll buy some angled feelers, just for piece of mind. I didn't try a longer screw because the stock one is tapered, and I didn't want to mess anything up by using a regular one (I don't have any tapered screws). Maybe I'll try a longer one.

Thanks for the replies.

 

If you are just checking your valves there is no need to get the motor at TDC of the compression stroke.

 

Check intake when exhaust is opening/closing, check exhaust when intake is opening/closing.

 

If you are changing shims, them yes, you have to have the motor at TDC of the compression stroke and lock the crank. As stated, you can just get a longer bolt. Also zip tie the cam chain to each sprocket. You will need to lift them just enough to change the shims.

 

If they are within spec (mine were), then I would wait until the bike gets hard to start before slapping in new shims. Some here will disagree to this method. It's how I do it and it works for me. Depends on how anal you are.......

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If you are just checking your valves there is no need to get the motor at TDC of the compression stroke.

 

Check intake when exhaust is opening/closing, check exhaust when intake is opening/closing.

 

If you are changing shims, them yes, you have to have the motor at TDC of the compression stroke and lock the crank. As stated, you can just get a longer bolt. Also zip tie the cam chain to each sprocket. You will need to lift them just enough to change the shims.

 

If they are within spec (mine were), then I would wait until the bike gets hard to start before slapping in new shims. Some here will disagree to this method. It's how I do it and it works for me. Depends on how anal you are.......

 

about being anal..... i'm looking at the 2010 service manual, and i get to the

replacement intervals for some components......

 

at 180 hours...... these are replaced?

 

clutch discs

clutch springs

gearbox bearing..

piston and segments

valve springs

connecting rod

crankshaft bearings

countershaft bearings

 

are these realistic replacement intervals?

i'm just seeing what level of fiddling is necessary here....

 

"Your projected build date is the week of May 4th."

 

getting ready..... note to self.... quit emailing frank

with adders on this.... any more, and just cancel

order and buy SR-71 Blackbird instead.......

Edited by FulThrotl

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^ We've talked about that before. I'm pretty sure those intervals are for race-type use.

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about being anal..... i'm looking at the 2010 service manual, and i get to the

replacement intervals for some components......

 

at 180 hours...... these are replaced?

 

clutch discs

clutch springs

gearbox bearing..

piston and segments

valve springs

connecting rod

crankshaft bearings

countershaft bearings

 

are these realistic replacement intervals?

i'm just seeing what level of fiddling is necessary here....

 

"Your projected build date is the week of May 4th."

 

getting ready..... note to self.... quit emailing frank

with adders on this.... any more, and just cancel

order and buy SR-71 Blackbird instead.......

Yeah for full blown racing those are good intervals. But there are a few here that are not that anal and have 3-4 times that amount of hours, and just check valve clearance and change the oil pump gears.........

BTW, those numbers are about the same on the KTM's I think KTM's numbers for replacement parts are slightly sooner than Beta

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Yeah for full blown racing those are good intervals. But there are a few here that are not that anal and have 3-4 times that amount of hours, and just check valve clearance and change the oil pump gears.........

BTW, those numbers are about the same on the KTM's I think KTM's numbers for replacement parts are slightly sooner than Beta

 

yeah, about what i figured... i was looking thru the engine manual, and it seems pretty straightforward,'

thanks for the feedback..... 

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I finally got the "washer" out- totally mangled it in the process (I had to cut it in half). Anyway, at 2600 miles, my valves were in spec (kinda surprised about that).

And, what a PITA to check the valves! Getting the engine mount bolts back in was a hassle. Clutch cable in the way, throttle cable in the way, all sorts of crap in the way. I can't imagine doing a roadside valve check if I was on a really long ride.

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I finally got the "washer" out- totally mangled it in the process (I had to cut it in half). Anyway, at 2600 miles, my valves were in spec (kinda surprised about that).

And, what a PITA to check the valves! Getting the engine mount bolts back in was a hassle. Clutch cable in the way, throttle cable in the way, all sorts of crap in the way. I can't imagine doing a roadside valve check if I was on a really long ride.

I hear ya' Ron. I pretty much call BS on anyone who claims they can roll a bike in, check/replace shims, and ride off into the sunset in a hour. I'm actually not surprised at all that they were within spec. 

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I finally got the "washer" out- totally mangled it in the process (I had to cut it in half). Anyway, at 2600 miles, my valves were in spec (kinda surprised about that).

And, what a PITA to check the valves! Getting the engine mount bolts back in was a hassle. Clutch cable in the way, throttle cable in the way, all sorts of crap in the way. I can't imagine doing a roadside valve check if I was on a really long ride.

 

the problem with difficult to measure stuff is that if the guage is flexed

a lot, it'll give more drag and make the fit seem tighter than it is....

which i am all good with.... a bit loose valve is ticky ticky, and a tight

one gets burnt... so erring on the side of loose works better.

 

what i've used on stuff that is really difficult to get a straight shot onto

the gap to be measured is a wire gauge. any good industrial hardware

store or machine shop supply should have them, and if they don't,

mcmaster-carr will.

 

i've also snipped off the end of a feeler guage, bent a little corner on

the end i snipped off, and used it with needle nose pliers. it'll go most

anywhere.

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