2006 WR 450F Electrical Issues

[RIP_PonyExpress]

I posted here last year and received good advice, so I am back again with a different bike.

 

I have a 2006 WR 450F that has been to two different shops now and my problem still persists.  Bascially, I start with a charged battery, ride for a few hours and the bike will not start with starter.  If I continue to ride until the battery is totally dead, the bike cannot be kicked started either.

 

Here is what I know.

 

I replaced the battery.  Problem persisted.

 

I took it to a shop, they recharged the battery, and checked the voltages.  Seem to be in spec.  Shop said, I may have a battery issue.  I returned the battery, and replaced it with a Lithium battery.  Problem persisted.

 

New shop, that one had its chance.  This shop is the dealer I purchased the bike from.  The performed a diagnostic on it, and assured me that the voltage regulator was the problem.  They believed it was an intermittent problem.  I took the bike for a ride yesterday, and it could not start after 2 hours of riding.  (about 50 miles)

 

I suppose the stator may be the problem, but I suspect that I do not have a charging problem, but a discharging problem.  Something eating amps while I ride.  For the most part, electricity sucks, I hate it.  I would rather have my toe nails pulled one by one then spend time doing this.  but at $200 everytime I take the bike in, I can replace parts until things work just as easy as the so called experts.

 

So what should I start with first.  Guess I should start with least expensive to most expensive.

[KennyMc]

So did they replace the voltage reg/rectifier?

[flyandride]

You should buy a $20 digital multi meter and do some testing.  It will hurt less than having your toe nails pulled out.  Check the voltage at the battery.  With the bike running you should see 13.2 to 14.5 volts.  12.5 is about right for a fully charged battery, engine not running.  How are the lights working?  The head light should be on when the engine is running, it runs off AC.  The tail light runs off the battery and should come on when you push the power on switch. 

What about when you're not riding it, does the battery go dead?  

[KennyMc]

I ask if you replaced your reg/rec cause if you haven't, I have the stock one off of my '07 that I would let you have much cheaper ?   I swapped it out when I dual sported mine back in '09 so it's not very used.

[FORMA MOTO]

Yeah, the service manual has procedures for testing the stator AC and DC output, (cold and hot), the rectifier, and the battery.

 

  A multimeter and a couple of hours and you probably find that the stator is going bad (not charging the battery once hot), and needs replacing, along with the rectifier.

[Maddog03]

Sometimes replacing a bad part with a "new" part, then confuses the diagnosis. I'm not a big fan of those Lithium batteries. Make sure it's a good one, also that bike should kick start with little or no battery. Either that battery sucks or something is a major drain dropping voltage to the point the ignition won't fire it. I don't think riding it will do that. Check voltage draw with the battery charged and the bike off.

[RIP_PonyExpress]

Sorry for the slow responce.  I have been avoiding the whole thing at the moment.  I got an email the other day from the second shop regarding service performance and I unloaded on them.  Well, Monday I got a call back, and they are going to pick up my bike Saturday. (tommorrow) at their expense.  Not bad since they are 40 miles from me.  I took it there because I have had good work there in the past.

 

Well, we will see how this turns out.  I think I am going to negotiate pretty hard on this one.  Paid for a diagnostic already, so not paying that.  Maybe I will tell them to put the old regulator back on, and take back the new one.

 

I appreciate the comments everyone stated.  I do own a meter, like I said, I would rather be doing something else.  Perhaps, a dentist pulling my teeth would be a better time.  Simple things like broken wires causing intermittent issues just blows my mind.  Two things I have no luck with are electricity and changing motorcycle flat tires( always a fight)

 

If they find the problem, I will post it.

 

 

 

[RIP_PonyExpress]

well, my agony continues. 

 

Anyway, the shop recommended that I replace the voltage regulator initially, that didn't work.  They credited me for the regulator and determined that the amp output was not up to spec, so replaced the stator.  Went for a 47 mile ride around town, and things looked good, so I took it out for a real ride and sputtered to a stop 50 miles from town.  Luckily I was only about 200 yards from someones campsite, ironically was the second person I had seen in the 50 miles.  They gave me a ride to a place with phone reception.

 

 

 

Sometimes replacing a bad part with a "new" part, then confuses the diagnosis. I'm not a big fan of those Lithium batteries. Make sure it's a good one, also that bike should kick start with little or no battery. Either that battery sucks or something is a major drain dropping voltage to the point the ignition won't fire it. I don't think riding it will do that. Check voltage draw with the battery charged and the bike off.

 

This is the third battery, the original, I replaced it, then again with the Li battery.  The Li battery is not as good as the others in my opinion.  When it gets low, the motorcycle sputters to a stop.  the other batteries would at least carry me until I turn the bike off, or stalled it.  You indicate that it should start regardless using the kick starter, I would agree, but my experience says no.  The bike will hold charge with the button turned off.  Just not when its driving down the rode.  With the button on, and bike off, I am sure it will go dead, as I have done that before when it was operating correctly.  May be sooner, but have no way to gauge that.

 

Took it back to the shop yesterday.  The shop was going to recheck the work they had done to make sure things are functioning.  I told them I thought it was a draining issue not a charging issue, started the bike to show them how bright the headlight was, and the head light was not working, weird because I rode the bike in the dark on the 47 miler a couple rides ago.  Seems like this problem is destroying components left and right.  Anyway, I told them to hook a meter to it and go for a ride.

 

I am considering a new motorcycle now.  Finding that new Yam's don't have the 6.6 gal tank anymore, seems only ktm has large tanks available anymore, a 5.4, may have to go that route as I frequently ride 200 miles in a trip.  Even if I purchase a new bike, I will need to fix this thing to get rid of it.  I really like the wr, I rode the ktm sc-w 500 the other day, and I think the wr has better bottom grunt then the ktm.  Further, I have installed a heavier rebound and springs in the front end of the wr to carry the extra fuel and my much greater than 180# self.  The tires, sprocket, and chains are new.  Carb is tuned.  All the general wear items I have replaced for this season.  I hate to purchase a new bike for $9100 and have to dump $1000 in parts in it to get to where I am now.  (new tank, heavier springs, sprocket,chain, mirrors, horn, taillight)  KTM store doesn't have an exc 500 on the floor, which would be better as I would not have to add the street legalization gear. 

 

Anyway, I think I was dumb not asking for a demo bike to ride in the mean time.  I do know that it is this shops last try at the problem.

[KennyMc]

Electrical sucks ?   Have you followed all of the wiring to ensure all of the plugs are plugged together and make a tight fit?  Half of the stator output goes to charging the battery, the other half goes to running the lights.  I use "half" as a figure of speech.  Maybe the connection where it splits off to the battery is an issue.  I would just ensure all the connections are tight.

Edited May 31, 2014 by KennyMc

[MANIAC998]

It does sound like your battery is not charging, but I wanted to mention a potential problem anyways. Where the electrical lead attaches to the starter motor, there is  a rubber boot protecting the terminal. This traps moisture under it, which then corrodes the terminal away. This will definitely cause starting issues, as the amperage draw increases with a corroded terminal. It certainly wouldn't hurt to check it out!

[flyandride]

You say you rode it around town for 47 miles.  This must mean you or somebody else did some sort of dual sport conversion.  What electrical parts are not stock?  Does it have the original headlight?  Turn signals, brake lights?  The WR's electrical system is marginal.  Start adding stuff and they can't handle it.  

 

Until you get all the problems sorted out, don't use a lithium battery.  Because if you discharge it so it goes below 8 volts, it's ruined.  I found that out the hard way.  

 

If you weren't so far away I would say bring it over.  

[condor74]

What mods have been done to this bike if any? There are 2 circuits in the stator. One runs the lights and the other powers the 12 volt electrical on the bike. If it was dual sported the legs are tied together and a special regulator is used. If it is stock you can have half of the stator working and the other half not working. You should be able to run the bike with no battery at all installed. I have done this before and the bike runs fine with no battery.

[KennyMc]

Wait, yah, you mention putting on a horn, mirrors and such on a new bike you get.  Is this bike dual sported?  If so, was a Baja Designs kit put on it?  if that is so, once you replaced the stator you no longer had the "floated ground" that Baja Designs does (if that is the kit on the bike).  Like Condor said, the "tie them together" and put all of the charge to the battery and the lights work off of the battery.  If you replaced the stator and did not have the ground floated again, the Baja Designs kit won't work properly, it needs more power than just half of what is coming off of the stator.  This would only be an issue if you replaced the stator with a stock one.  If you got an aftermarket stator from Rickey Stator or Trail Tech, then you would be all right as they are 100W.

[bobpara]

We will assume all of the wiring on this bike is stock and unmodified

Is the battery in fact dead when the dike dies? (Dead would be reading LESS than 12.2 V at rest, engine not running)

If so, the charging side of the electrical system (there are two halves in this system) has a problem and is draining the battery

That would lead to the regulator / rectifier or a short (or poss an open) in the system

 

Get a meter and start pinging spots

[KennyMc]

We will assume all of the wiring on this bike is stock and unmodified

Is the battery in fact dead when the dike dies? (Dead would be reading LESS than 12.2 V at rest, engine not running)

If so, the charging side of the electrical system (there are two halves in this system) has a problem and is draining the battery

That would lead to the regulator / rectifier or a short (or poss an open) in the system

 

Get a meter and start pinging spots

I don't know, the OP say's he would need to dump a lot of moeny into a "new" bike to where his bike is "now".  Those items include a mirror, horn and a tail light.  Sounds like it is dual sported.  Knowing what was done to the electrical system (stator ground floated to begin with) is kinda important. 

[bobpara]

Kenny Mc.....you are right

I have a Baja Kit that I added and I run their rectifier/regulator, ground float, and a bunch of

Changes that I documented and put in my manual for myself (old age) or the next buyer

 

In fact, they way mine is set up, I think my bike will not run anymore with a stock rect/reg

 

Very key info

[condor74]

Ironically, My battery took a crap yesterday.  The battery is less than 6 months old and started perfect on my last ride on Tuesday.  Yesterday I go to start it and it just clicks.  I checked my battery voltage and it was at 12.67 volts.  I pressed the on off button and it drops to 10 volts. I hit the starter button and it drops to 0.  I didnt think it would make any difference but I put it on the trickle charger over night.  No change in the morning.  My wife works near the shop where it was bought so hopefully they will exchange it. 

[RIP_PonyExpress]

Sorry, I have had a busy few weeks.  Took some vacation, had jury duty, and help moving son out of college dorm.  Anyway, the bike still has the original equipment for the most part.  I added a horn, and changed out the sending unit for the rear brake/taillight.  It has the original one beam headlight, no blinker set.  I do not believe those Items added really add any current as I don't drive around with horn on, though the tail light sending unit was replaced this winter.   The bike is plated and I typically ride 150-200 miles when I go.  I have loved this bike for its capability to run down the the highway at 80 mph and turn off on to a single track and have the grunt to idle along at 2-3 mph.

 

The shop has replaced the wiring harness on it now, I have a 50/50 feeling about this as they removed the aftermarket desert tank and said the wires were damaged.  I wonder if they saw where the grey wire was cut.  So new wires would mean, no grounding issues I suppose. Anyway, I am pretty sure this wire harness is +$300 with labor.  Think this is my last option with this shop.  This was what I wanted to avoid when I initially posted here, but I chickened out on my ability to diagnose this problem.  Think the only thing they can replace now is the ignition at this point. (assuming the parts they installed were any good)

 

Now that I think back, I did a wild river crossing last summer, where the water was so deep my butt got wet.  Thought I was going to drown it, but I made it thru.  Perhaps this moisture found places it shouldn't be in.  Any thoughts on parts susceptible to water?.

[MaxPower]

I have a nearly identical issue with my 450. BD DS harness. Stator floated.BD reg.

Maniac said something about a corroded starter wire.

I had the starter wire off when i was building it into a road only bike. It's possible I didn't do something right putting it back on.

My bike will blow a fuse. There are two of them. Will it narrow the area to look for the problem by noting which one of the two keep blowing? I don't understand if it's a short why the battery will hold a charge while the bike sits. Yet after a while riding it the engine starts running nasty.

I am an electrical failure pleae excuse my ignorance. Where do I look to be sure the system is grounded properly?

Don't mean to take your thread over. I'm hoping by sticking my nose in here that someone's answer will spark an idea to find a solution for both bikes.

When did yours begin this problem? Mine was fine before I messed with my bike and added the DS kit, fan, new running lights...

[DeepPurplishBlue]

My bike will blow a fuse. There are two of them. Will it narrow the area to look for the problem by noting which one of the two keep blowing?

 

 

You guys do realize that one of those two fuses is a spare and is not connected to anything, right?