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2012 CRF450R EFI / ECU / Remap / High Compression piston / Flame-outs

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Wasn't sure what to put in the subject line, so I put it all. lol.

 

I picked up a new-to-me 2012 CRF450R. Has Yoshimura RS-4 slip on with stock header. Previous owner had the ecu remapped by Tokyo Mods. Then, he added a 13.5:1 HC piston, but didn't get any remap work done.

 

Then I bought it. I've had it out for 2 practices so far and have experienced probably 6 flame-outs if not more, in a little over an hour total ride time.

 

I'm a vet class racer, and have ridden and raced countless hours over many, many years. I know bikes and how they are supposed to behave. I just moved up from a 2005 CRF450R and NEVER had blatant, unforced flameouts. (well maybe a couple over the years)

 

Here is the one that really pissed me off. I went to a local mx track that I hadn't been on before, I was doing my site laps to see what lurked on the other side of the uphill jumps, doubles etc. I came up to one just a little hot (for not knowing what was on the other side)  so I put the binders on as I rolled up the face, then I caught a glimpse of the other side and saw that I needed to blip the throttle to launch enough to get the bike some more forward momentum. Just as I let off the binders and blipped the throttle -- nothing! poof! I Kissed the front fender, one hand off the bars, tweaked my wrist, slammed my stomach onto the bar pad. I pretty much did everything except hit the ground. Did that again on another very similar kicker. Then cornering flameouts. Argh!

 

Notes, I had fresh 93 octane gas in, fresh spark plug, clean air filter. Idle set at about 1800-1900.

 

So my questions are, could the ecu need a remap after the PO added the HC piston?

 

If so, looks like Tokyo wants close to $90/100 for a remap? I know some will mention Eddie, that's fine too, but would I be better off buying say a Yosh EMS PIM2?  Paying a for a couple/three remaps would pay for a new PIM!

 

I hate to think that these new-fangled EFI bikes are that temperamental. I'm almost missing the rock steady '05.

 

Edit:

I wanted to add that once I got up to speed on the track, I didn't have any blatant flameouts on the jump faces. But don't just say "ride faster" :lol:  - as something just doesn't seem right.

Edited by tahoemike00

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There's this option too.

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1071987-10-pgm-fi-hrc-tuner-tool/?hl=+pgm#8208fi=&page=2

 

Probably just need to lean out the lower rpm range. 

 

I ran a Bazzaz EFI controller with o2 sensor for a while, switched to a Power Commander with Ignition, and then just recently took all the mapping data, and just made a map for the stock ECU and flashed it, and voila, didn't need those tuners anymore and it runs perfect with a ported head, 14:1 piston, cams, and exhaust.

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Read about the owner of this company a while back pulling some kind of scam about not giving customers back their TB's & cash back.   I'd be leary of sending my TB to injectioneering. 

Have had 2 efi models with both being remapped from Eddie S. with no flame outs after they've been done. 

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Read about the owner of this company a while back pulling some kind of scam about not giving customers back their TB's & cash back. I'd be leary of sending my TB to injectioneering.

Have had 2 efi models with both being remapped from Eddie S. with no flame outs after they've been done.

I just had work done with wade with no issues. My friend sent his in as well with no problems. if the ecu map pulls timeing then you can achieve no flame out. Wades injectioneering mods achives no flame out with out pulling timing. You can ride around chugging like a tractor

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There's this option too.

 

http://www.thumpertalk.com/topic/1071987-10-pgm-fi-hrc-tuner-tool/?hl=+pgm#8208fi=&page=2

 

Probably just need to lean out the lower rpm range. 

 

I ran a Bazzaz EFI controller with o2 sensor for a while, switched to a Power Commander with Ignition, and then just recently took all the mapping data, and just made a map for the stock ECU and flashed it, and voila, didn't need those tuners anymore and it runs perfect with a ported head, 14:1 piston, cams, and exhaust.

 

Can you take (download / copy) and map from one ECU and flash it to another? And if so, can you take a map (for example) from a Honda ECU that and flash it to a Yoshi EMS PIM-2? Or vice-versa?

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Can you take (download / copy) and map from one ECU and flash it to another? And if so, can you take a map (for example) from a Honda ECU that and flash it to a Yoshi EMS PIM-2? Or vice-versa?

 

Its just data, the interface is the only difference. X amount of timing, X amount of fuel at X rpm vs. TB position etc. Being able to read the data and transfer it is I think what youre asking, correct?

 

dunno if the data trasfers are straight across. But doing it the way calco88 did it, with an o2 sensor is the best way to get it perfect under open loop, then make the closed loop map out of that data.

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Can you take (download / copy) and map from one ECU and flash it to another? And if so, can you take a map (for example) from a Honda ECU that and flash it to a Yoshi EMS PIM-2? Or vice-versa?

You can copy the honda maps from other bikes and load them into your bike

The yoshi tuner is just a Bazzaz tuner with a different label, you can tune with it then visually read and copy the numbers into a honda map and load it.

With the o2 sensor on a yoshi, Bazzaz, power commander, it will determine how much more or less fuel is needed for every 500rpms and every 5% throttle increments. You can just keep it hooked up and let it make the fuel changes, or look at it after it makes the adjustments and make a custom honda ecu map and apply it to the ecu, and take off the o2 sensor and extra hardware.

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Screw it, I don't want to be messing with this stuff, I want to ride!  I'm sending my module to Eddy.  :thumbsup: 

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I have this very same problem with a brand new left over 2012 CRF450.. it pisses me off that a 2012 EFI motor cant get around a track w/ stalling coming out of a low rpm corner as well as a motor of 30 years ago. I have tried almost everything.. lower gearing, ReKluse clutch, remapping, removed air fliter backfire screen, set idle at 2000 rpm and the problem remains unchanged. Low rpm corner and you crank the throttle open to clear a double out of the corner and the bike just dies and almost throws you over the bars. Irritating and dangerous.

 

I have had 3 different Tokyo Mod remaps and the problem is the same as the stock set up.

 

I tried the Dave Simmons choke mod and it did nothing whatsoever.

 

I had Wade at Injectioneering do his mod to my throttle body after doing a complete testing and cleaning to make sure nothing was wrong. Wade's mod definitely adds power to the bottom end but it did nothing whatsoever to improve the flameout issue. Wade was good to work with by the way, in my experience.

 

There is only one thing I have left to try. It is potentially the cause and the cure.. the fuel. The junk pump fuel we get these days with so much alcohol in it and the alcohol level changes from batch to batch and from season to season.  The simple EFI systems in these first generation dirt bikes are not so flexible with the fuel perhaps.  I have heard good race gas helps and plan to try some VP race gas soon. If that doesnt work, I am yanking the 4 stroke motor and putting a big 2 stroke motor between the frame rails.

 

mike

Edited by Tokyo_Tiddler
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I have this very same problem with a brand new left over 2012 CRF450.. it pisses me off that a 2012 EFI motor cant get around a track w/ stalling coming out of a low rpm corner as well as a motor of 30 years ago. I have tried almost everything.. lower gearing, ReKluse clutch, remapping, removed air fliter backfire screen, set idle at 2000 rpm and the problem remains unchanged. Low rpm corner and you crank the throttle open to clear a double out of the corner and the bike just dies and almost throws you over the bars. Irritating and dangerous.

 

I have had 3 different Tokyo Mod remaps and the problem is the same as the stock set up.

 

I tried the Dave Simmons choke mod and it did nothing whatsoever.

 

I had Wade at Injectioneering do his mod to my throttle body after doing a complete testing and cleaning to make sure nothing was wrong. Wade's mod definitely adds power to the bottom end but it did nothing whatsoever to improve the flameout issue. Wade was good to work with by the way, in my experience.

 

There is only one thing I have left to try. It is potentially the cause and the cure.. the fuel. The junk pump fuel we get these days with so much alcohol in it and the alcohol level changes from batch to batch and from season to season.  The simple EFI systems in these first generation dirt bikes are not so flexible with the fuel perhaps.  I have heard good race gas helps and plan to try some VP race gas soon. If that doesnt work, I am yanking the 4 stroke motor and putting a big 2 stroke motor between the frame rails.

 

mike

 

I hear ya. My feeling is you shouldn't HAVE to do all of these mods to get a modern day bike to work the way it's supposed to.

But to research, test, buy hardware, software, reprogramming, mods to just make it -maybe- work correctly? I don't get it. Fine if you're a fiddler/tuner or just like doing this kind of stuff, but c'mon,

 

But alas, my [Tokyo modded] module is on it's way to Ed as I type this. There seems to be a consensus that Tokyo mods might not be the optimal way to go, so I'll let Ed do that voodoo that he does :thumbsup:

Edited by tahoemike00

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Please let us know how it works out. I have the feeling that there is more at play here than just the fuel mapping.

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Please let us know how it works out. I have the feeling that there is more at play here than just the fuel mapping.

 

Will do. I'm just hesitant to test the bike again after I get the module back. The last flame-out I had was on a site lap over a blind kicker double, and *poof* flamed out just as I blipped the throttle at the lip and over I went, down into the moat. Partial flying W, groin into the crossbar (pad didn't seem so padded) and then about ripped my frickin' shoulders out.  I practiced the rest of the day and got over the doubles ok once I kept the speed up. But  think one shoulder is damaged - my shoulder is now snapping clicking, popping and making grinding noises. Oh yeah, and it HURTS like a mofo!

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Just don't try to tell anyone on this board that most folks were better off with the carb'd 2005-2008 CRF450's that ran perfect.  They'll tell you how awesome EFI is.  Gotta love "progression".  :smashpc:

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Just don't try to tell anyone on this board that most folks were better off with the carb'd 2005-2008 CRF450's that ran perfect.  They'll tell you how awesome EFI is.  Gotta love "progression".  :smashpc:

 

My '05 450 is still sitting in the garage, mocking my '12. lol. I NEVER had a flame-out on the 05. I killed it a few times sure, but operator error. My 05 is sweet, carb and jetting is dialed and runs snappy and crisp. First and second kick starts almost every time. And with the external fuel knob, I can dial it in for cold weather and starts well then too. But I didn't tell anyone  :rolleyes:

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I have an 09 which flamed out excessively so I put the throttle body sleeve in, Tokyo mods remap and run idle at 2000 -+ rpm and it has been very good to me lately.

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yikes ya'll are scaring me, I have a few rides in now on my 14 450 and have been stalling in the turns frequently. I thought it was my technique since Im coming off of an 03 cr250. Last ride went better, I got a tach and set idle to 2000/2100. Interested to see how the remap effects the flame out issue. Id hate to have this happen on a jump face, yikes. Careful out there tahoemike.

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If the previous owner installed a HC piston, hotcam, aftermarket exhaust, etc... the ECU should be remapped to match the mod work.

 

I sent Eddie Sisneros 2 ECU's earlier this month on 4 April 14. Got them both back on 18 April 14. No issues.

 

Will be the best $50 you ever spend on your bike.

 

Good luck.

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